APCs before the end of WW2.



This has some reference elements similar in the HS 30. Coincidence?

www.yesterdaysmuse.com

PanzerKampfwagen 38 t Variants-2.0 cm; 3.7 cm; 7.5 cm; 7.62 cm; 15 cm by David V. Nielsen on Yesterday's Muse Books

Boise, Idaho: Zimmerit Press, 1999. Stapled Binding. Very Good. Item #2344445 ISBN: 9780967511504 Edges lightly rubbed, top corner of rear wrapper lightly creased. 60 pp. Illustrated with black-and-white photographs. Photographic essay on the numerous variants of the PanzerKampfwagen 38 t tank...
www.yesterdaysmuse.com www.yesterdaysmuse.com

Cheaper in the USA @ 20 dollars there.

 
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Foo Fighter said:


This has some reference elements similar in the HS 30. Coincidence?

www.yesterdaysmuse.com

PanzerKampfwagen 38 t Variants-2.0 cm; 3.7 cm; 7.5 cm; 7.62 cm; 15 cm by David V. Nielsen on Yesterday's Muse Books

Boise, Idaho: Zimmerit Press, 1999. Stapled Binding. Very Good. Item #2344445 ISBN: 9780967511504 Edges lightly rubbed, top corner of rear wrapper lightly creased. 60 pp. Illustrated with black-and-white photographs. Photographic essay on the numerous variants of the PanzerKampfwagen 38 t tank...
www.yesterdaysmuse.com www.yesterdaysmuse.com

Cheaper in the USA @ 20 dollars there.

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There are a lot of design features from weapons, equipment, and vehicles that inspired later iterations of the same things. Whether or not these were directly inspired or of a passing resemblance is left unsaid. The Ho-299 and the B-2 come to mind with that line of thinking. In the end, some things can just be made in a vacuum. Post-WW2, many lessons were to be learned, and much battle doctrine was either rewritten or still being written, ergo the same could be said about vehicle design, keeping both capability and functionality in mind—food for thought.
 
I get you, the Mark IX as an example of the thinking of an APC in the closing stages of WW1, stagnant thinking in the between wars and on to the early half tracked vehicles.

The leap back to fully tracked vehicles is not so far of a stretch either, converted RAM tanks etc with their canvas tops being little more than a tracked lorry, just much more useful for carrying infantry in the immediate vicinity of shellfire etc.

I would really like to find the 'Monkey in the middle', the spark that pointed folk towards the genesis of the IFV with a capability, even if limited, to lay down covering fire for the debussed passengers in the assault.

It is a fascinating diversion imho.
 
Foo Fighter said:
I get you, the Mark IX as an example of the thinking of an APC in the closing stages of WW1, stagnant thinking in the between wars and on to the early half tracked vehicles.

The leap back to fully tracked vehicles is not so far of a stretch either, converted RAM tanks etc with their canvas tops being little more than a tracked lorry, just much more useful for carrying infantry in the immediate vicinity of shellfire etc.

I would really like to find the 'Monkey in the middle', the spark that pointed folk towards the genesis of the IFV with a capability, even if limited, to lay down covering fire for the debussed passengers in the assault.

It is a fascinating diversion imho.
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Lots of experimentation and learning from mistakes. I do not really think there was a "missing link". It would be nice because that would simplify things greatly. It's more likely everyone just came to the same conclusion simultaneously due to shared experiences. I really think by the early Cold War, most nations had a pretty good idea of what a proper APC should be, and what purpose it would come to serve, though it would take decades of implementation and refinement to perfect them. Some would be better than others. The same could be said of the role of tanks, aircraft, and infantry weapons because many so-called specialty roles were phased out in favor of a more streamlined, standardized approach.

The attachments below are several different approaches to adapting already existing powertrains to serve the role of the APC by the war's end, as a dedicated purpose-built APC, was still not a solid concept past 1945.
 

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  • M3 Halftrack Spaced Armor Concept.jpg
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Foo Fighter said:
I would really like to find the 'Monkey in the middle', the spark that pointed folk towards the genesis of the IFV with a capability, even if limited, to lay down covering fire for the debussed passengers in the assault.
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I want to say it was the German SdKfz251/10, with the 37mm gun, or the 251/17s with a 20mm AA gun that were also used as platoon command vehicles that started the idea.

While neither of those were particularly successful in their role, the fact that the powers that were kept putting a small cannon on a vehicle seems indicative.
 
I can see thse being particularly informative and several half track variants were used in diverse roles. A fully tracked vehicle capable of keeping up with tanks would be an extension of the half track evolution.

The use of older short barrel 75's in half tracks, taking over the role of the Stug is also informative although by that time, the use of counterattack was a localised phenomena rather than something to vastly change the overall situation.
 
Foo Fighter said:
I can see thse being particularly informative and several half track variants were used in diverse roles. A fully tracked vehicle capable of keeping up with tanks would be an extension of the half track evolution.

The use of older short barrel 75's in half tracks, taking over the role of the Stug is also informative although by that time, the use of counterattack was a localised phenomena rather than something to vastly change the overall situation.
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The short 75 in halftracks was a thing in the mid war, 1943 or before. Those were part of the armored PzGren battalion, while StuGs were regimental or higher assets.
 
Good point, I had conflated the timeline.

I thnk I have a tendancy to put some of these things together, some of the units at the end stage of hostilities were ad hoc and used all sorts of kit.

Bautepanzer IV in Berlin for example.

Mk IV Berlin 1945.jpg
 
Have you seen Panzer Wrecks? Several Mark IV in the same area armed with ad hock weaponry. DEFINITELY in use.
 

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