Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumph / SA-21 Growler TABM/SAM

[Scott Kenny]

Quite possibly but no one would have noticed, there are far bigger things happening right now... in Kursk.

Yeah, I did not have the Second Battle of Kursk on my bingo card for this year...

 

[Cjc]

Cluster munitions again proving their unreplaceable value. Two conclusions from this war - drones are now very important and cluster munitions are still important and need to be re-introduced to military procurement thinking. GPS-immunity or just use cluster munitions?

Well south korea seems to have gotten the right idea.

ADEX 2023 - Mass versus accuracy: KDI unveils a new unguided 230 mm rocket for the Chunmoo MRL - EDR Magazine

ADEX2023 Korea Defense Industry exhibits the new 230 mm unguided rocket aimed at providing a higher firepower at medium range for the Chunmoo

www.edrmagazine.eu

GILMERS sized rocket with cluster munitions both GPS (200 munitions) and non GPS (500 munitions) options.

 

[TinWing]

Hasn't there been some reports in the past few days that the Ukrainians have destroyed another three SA-21 batteries?

Nobody uses the NATO codes anymore. We know what all of these systems are actually called.

 

[NMaude]

Nobody uses the NATO codes anymore.

As far as I know these designations are still in use.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

While these days there is a lot more information on Russian designations for most of their weapon systems, many of them can still be pretty confusing for things like SAMs. There are often so many varieties where it must be quite difficult for any pilot to memorize what he's up against, especially with the Russian designations. I'm sure the reporting names, especially for things like radars, are useful too. Big slab looking radar on a big 8x8 truck? Probably a GRAVE STONE or TOMB STONE and it kind of looks like one. Easier to remember than whatever the exact designation.

 

[TinWing]

As far as I know these designations are still in use.

If they’re in common use, what’s the NATO designation for the S-500? And how often have you seen the Panstir referred to as the “Greyhound?”

I think in hindsight, NATO designations lost a lot of credibility in the Reagan era when names were chosen for political expediency. Laudatory names were assigned such as Flanker and Fulcrum to justify domestic defense spending. And the name Akula (Shark),which rightfully belonged to the “Typhoon” SSBN, was assigned to the SSN class that the Soviets largely saw as an iterative Victor III successor. Everyone forgets that the Victor III was Shchuka (Pike) and the wrongly named “Akula” was the Shchuka B (Pike B). It was all was an attempt to ensure funding by overestimating the “Akula.”

 

[Cjc]

The s-500 Is Prometheus and nato names are still the only ones used in nato militarys as far as im aware. Aka if a nato service member sees a s-500 then he is going to report it as s-500 or Prometheus or both not 55R6M Triumfator.

 

[NMaude]

If they’re in common use, what’s the NATO designation for the S-500? And how often have you seen the Panstir referred to as the “Greyhound?”

The NATO military no doubt still uses those designations.

I think in hindsight, NATO designations lost a lot of credibility in the Reagan era when names were chosen for political expediency.

What? That sounds like a load of rubbish to me.

And the name Akula (Shark),which rightfully belonged to the “Typhoon” SSBN, was assigned to the SSN class that the Soviets largely saw as an iterative Victor III successor.

IIRC they used the term "Akula" IIRC because they'd run out of names otherwise to refer to new Russian submarine variants.

 

[aim9xray]

"And your NATO name is ...Flounder".

 

[NMaude]

Defense Updates has put out a video concerning Turkey decommissioning its' SA-21 batteries:

Turkey seems to have had enough of the Russian S-400 air defense system. The country has reportedly made significant progress in discussions with the United States regarding plans to decommission its Russian-supplied systems. This move is aimed at facilitating the NATO member's ability to resume acquiring F-35 fifth-generation fighters and potentially rejoin the F-35 program as a Tier 3 partner.

So, an important game is being played out at the negotiating table.

Viewers may note that Turkey had received 4 batteries consisting of 36 fire units and around 192 missiles.

In this video, Defense Updates analyzes why Turkey decommissioning S-400 for F-35 program re-entry is bad news for Russia ?

#defenseupdates #s400missile #f35

Chapters:
00:11 INTRODUCTION
01:46 S-400 DEAL KILLED F-35 DEAL
04:47 TURKISH BLACKMAIL DIDINT WORK
05:41 THE NEGOTIATION
06:49 ANALYSIS

 

[Cjc]

I'm honestly kind of surprised, I figured turkey was gust going focuse on its own 5th gen fighter. Then again maybe the systems less the stellar proformance in Ukraine has convinced turkey that it's just is not worth it.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I'm honestly kind of surprised, I figured turkey was gust going focuse on its own 5th gen fighter. Then again maybe the systems less the stellar proformance in Ukraine has convinced turkey that it's just is not worth it.

That's my assumption.

 

[NMaude]

Then again maybe the systems less the stellar proformance in Ukraine has convinced turkey that it's just is not worth it.

At the beginning of the Ukrainian invasion by Russia systems such as the SA-21 Growler and AS-24 Killjoy had shit hot, super duper awesome weapon status but within a year proved to be quite vincible, along with Russia's Su-57 Felon which was supposed to be as good as the F-22/F-35 has yet to be used meaningfully in combat. Basically these Russian weapon-systems had been massively overhyped.

 

[TMA1]

If something is overhyped then the answer is not to go to the opposite extreme and underestimate them. So far the only successful means od destroying an s400 system is by overloading it and/or using certain types of quasiballistic missiles with clever payloads. All at the right time and in the right locations.

You fundamentally underestimate the s400, our missile systems, and the joint work of our contractors and Ukrainian soldiers that wield these powerful weapons at a sizable tactical level. Both groups are dying in shocking numbers too. This is not a movie and our enemy is no longer just composed of demoralized desert dwellers.

 

[Scott Kenny]

If something is overhyped then the answer is not to go to the opposite extreme and underestimate them. So far the only successful means od destroying an s400 system is by overloading it and/or using certain types of quasiballistic missiles with clever payloads. All at the right time and in the right locations.

You fundamentally underestimate the s400, our missile systems, and the joint work of our contractors and Ukrainian soldiers that wield these powerful weapons at a sizable tactical level. Both groups are dying in shocking numbers too. This is not a movie and our enemy is no longer just composed of demoralized desert dwellers.

ATACMS is not a particularly difficult target to intercept, it's a couple-hundred-km-range ballistic missile. I'm reasonably certain it's exactly the type of target Patriot was intended to shoot down.

The problem is that the Russian AA troops are not being aggressive about destroying drones that are overhead, so now the Ukrainians know exactly where the missile TELs are. (With the datalinks, I'm assuming that hard-killing the TELs is now worth more than the radars and C&C trucks.)

 

[TMA1]

Quasiballistic missiles which can maneuver in flight are not easy targets. Look at what has happened in the last couple days. Now add cluster munition payload and if not hit early enough you still risk serious damage even if the target is hit.

Now similar kinds of misconceptions are being raised against iron dome.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Quasiballistic missiles which can maneuver in flight are not easy targets. Look at what has happened in the last couple days. Now add cluster munition payload and if not hit early enough you still risk serious damage even if the target is hit.

Now similar kinds of misconceptions are being raised against iron dome.

There have been no reports, or even suggestions that GMLRS et sim are jinking on their way into the target.

 

[Forest Green]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm5dK5UzJmI