Almaz-Antey S-400 Triumph / SA-21 Growler TABM/SAM

Spamming the SA-21 battery would ensure it wastes a lot of expensive interceptor missiles making it easier to destroy if there's a follow up HIMARS barrage.
 
NMaude said:
Spamming the SA-21 battery would ensure it wastes a lot of expensive interceptor missiles making it easier to destroy if there's a follow up HIMARS barrage.
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Or just being a right evil cheeky bastard and putting half an MLRS load spamming the battery and then sending the second half of that load a couple minutes later to get the battery.

Then having said MLRS unit(s) drive like hell because counterbattery fire is a witch.
 
An upgraded S-400 battery just got destroyed by an ATACAMs strike yesterday.

Russians claim five were used, but they are known for overclaiming. What video and pictures we have doesn’t seem to support that many as well.

Same Russian source claimed the entire crew survived, which seems extremely unlikely given the destruction of the command vehicle. They might have been being sarcastic or something, dunno.

Most interestingly it was using a deployed 96L6-Tsp radar, which they previously claimed has significant upgraded anti-ballistic capability and is also utilized as the radar for the S-350 and S-500 systems. This is the first time it has been confirmed destroyed.

In addition two TEL were completely destroyed, third was likely destroyed but at least heavily damaged and both the radar and command vehicle were destroyed as well.

It doesn’t seem like any of its current missiles are particularly effective vs ATACAMs.
 
We do not know the conditions of the engagement. It is possible other rockets and decoys were used. Ukraine is known to mix HIMARS and ADM-160s into their ATACM strikes.
 
Josh_TN said:
We do not know the conditions of the engagement. It is possible other rockets and decoys were used. Ukraine is known to mix HIMARS and ADM-160s into their ATACM strikes.
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We don’t know the exact conditions but the Russian milblogger who published photos is claiming five ATACAMS. It’s also clear it wasn’t a saturation attack as the TEL’s still had ammo left. MALD’s should not serve as effective decoys for ballistic missiles vs a modern AESA, though vs Russia, who knows.
 
NTKV said:
We don’t know the exact conditions but the Russian milblogger who published photos is claiming five ATACAMS. It’s also clear it wasn’t a saturation attack as the TEL’s still had ammo left. MALD’s should not serve as effective decoys for ballistic missiles vs a modern AESA, though vs Russia, who knows.
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Anything flying into occupied airspace is still a threat and target.
 
No doubt Turkey will be looking to very quietly sell its SA-21 batteries to Ukraine;).
 
NMaude said:
No doubt Turkey will be looking to very quietly sell its SA-21 batteries to Ukraine;).
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Wonder if the Indian's will be that upset if further deliveries are delayed....they might be able to cancel the contract...
 
According to one Ukrainian source, two ATACAMS were fired and one was shot down while the other was clearly very effective.

However, do you want to know the craziest thing?

The aftermath footage and destruction video seems like it might be from two different incidents based on geolocation, if accurate.

So probably two separate S400 batteries destroyed via ATACAMs over the last couple of days.
 
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Cluster munitions again proving their unreplaceable value. Two conclusions from this war - drones are now very important and cluster munitions are still important and need to be re-introduced to military procurement thinking. GPS-immunity or just use cluster munitions?
 
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Looks like jamming has not rendered GPS 'completely ineffective' after all. GL-SEAD has proved extremely effective during this conflict too.
 
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Forest Green said:
Looks like jamming has not rendered GPS 'completely ineffective' after all.
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Don't forget that there are a range of terminal-homing seekers available for the JDAM and SDB for example that will home in on anti-GPS jammers.
 
Preliminary data:

At night, the Defense Forces of Ukraine hit the S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems in the Dzhankoya region, as well as 2 S-300 divisions near Chornomorskyi and Yevpatoria, on the still-occupied peninsula.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7xPsTiPzkc

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Dzhankoi lit up on FIRMS.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1800163097434353917
View: https://x.com/UKikaski/status/1800163097434353917


Fedosia also lit up on FIRMS.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1800167939372429635
View: https://x.com/UKikaski/status/1800167939372429635
 
Forest Green said:
Debatable, not everyone has IBCS-equivalent and a radar is usually way more expensive and difficult to replace, and also serves many TELs.
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The S400s do have a comparable networking system where a radar not in the same grid square as the TELs can tell those TELs when to fire.

So while blinding the TELs is good for short term suppression, you need to get the TELs as well as the radars for permanence.
 
Scott Kenny said:
The S400s do have a comparable networking system where a radar not in the same grid square as the TELs can tell those TELs when to fire.

So while blinding the TELs is good for short term suppression, you need to get the TELs as well as the radars for permanence.
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There's way more TELs than there are radars and the TELs are relatively very cheap and easy to replace. The easiest way to disable SAMs is the killing the radars and ground stations. Keep the radars out permanently and you have permanence. Killing TELs as well uses more munitions and is therefore not as efficient. Of course, if your cluster warhead takes out a TEL or two as well as the radar and ground station, then that's not something to complain about... not for you anyway.
 
Josh_TN said:
The radar is still the harder to replace item. Control center perhaps more so. Destroying any part of an opponent SAM system is desirable to prevent reconstituting batteries.
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And the modern data links make it so that pretty much any radar and control center can give launch orders to any TEL.

Gotta kill them all these days, not just take out radars and/or control centers at each battery.
 
Scott Kenny said:
And the modern data links make it so that pretty much any radar and control center can give launch orders to any TEL.

Gotta kill them all these days, not just take out radars and/or control centers at each battery.
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That's what the russians claim anyway, but they're still removing most of their AD umbrella from Crimea after losing so many systems.

I think that just like with many russian pieces of gear, the claims are bigger than the performance.
 
Bunko's Battlegrounds has put out a video about why Ukraine is attacking SA-21 batteries and why they can't seem to stop ATACMS missiles:


This video will explain why attacks on S-400 became more numerous. Why the focus on Crimea? What might be the ultimate goal? And why have Russian S-400 SAMs often showed to be inadequate to protect themselves?
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00:00 Intro
00:52 Attacks on S-400
08:05 Why did S-400 fail?
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Hasn't there been some reports in the past few days that the Ukrainians have destroyed another three SA-21 batteries?
 

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