Airbus A400M - Atlas C1

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snne said:
They already operate three MRTTs, right?
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The RSAF ordered 3 A330MRTT in 2008 & another 3 in 2009, all 6 of which had been delivered by mid-2015.

To update your article from Feb 2024, on 10 July 2024 it was announced that they had ordered another 4.
www.airbus.com

Saudi Arabia orders four additional Airbus A330 MRTTs

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has ordered four additional A330 MRTT aircraft for the Royal Saudi Arabia Air Force (RSAF).
www.airbus.com www.airbus.com
 
snne said:
View attachment 735303
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Turkey is negotiating for 6 A-400M and 12 second-hand C-130J transport aircraft.
Negotiations are being held with Airbus to increase the number of 10 A-400M transport aircraft used extensively by the Turkish Air Force to 16.
At the same time, negotiations are being held with the UK for 12 C-130Js retired by the Royal Air Force in order to increase the fleet of 19 C-130B/E transport aircraft. - Defense Turkey/Issue 132 | İbrahim Sunnetçi
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@timmymagic

Edit: Here's the article:

https://www.defenceturkey.com/tr/ic...zation-programs-of-the-turkish-air-force-6035
 
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snne said:
@timmymagic

Edit: Here's the article:

https://www.defenceturkey.com/tr/ic...zation-programs-of-the-turkish-air-force-6035
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What do you guys think of this? This is only a rumour, but nevertheless it is an interesting one:
Defence Turkey Magazine also tweeted this before deleting it quickly (they're the most credible news source, so make of this what you will):
According to sources speaking to Defense Turkey, Spain is offering to pay for the procurement of 24 HÜRJETs through the sale of 6 A400Ms to the Turkish Air Force through Airbus (i.e. by barter method).
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Edit: Turns out the quote is a part of the article they've published today:

According to information we have previously received, a delegation from the Spanish Air and Space Force, including pilots, was expected to visit TAI facilities in Ankara at the end of this month or in August to examine the HURJET on site. However, the fact that the HURJET will go directly to Spain came as a surprise to us. The top potential customers for HURJET include Azerbaijan, Spain and Canada. Negotiations between TAI and these countries are ongoing, and TAI aims to sell 100 HURJETs to the Turkish Air Force and 300 HURJETs to its international customers by the mid-2030s. According to sources who spoke to Defence Turkey, Spain is offering to pay for the procurement of 24 HURJETs by selling 6 A400Ms to the Turkish Air Force via Airbus (i.e. by barter). The Turkish Air Force has been working to increase the number of A400Ms in its inventory for some time, but additional purchases could not be made due to budget constraints.

The Spanish Air and Space Force (SASF), which has been searching for a next-generation jet trainer to replace the SF-5Ms produced under license by CASA since 2023, aims to add the next-generation jet trainer to its inventory by 2028. The HÜRJET is one of four candidates (Boeing T-7, KAI T-50 and Leonardo M-346) to replace the SASF’s aging SF-5M Freedom Fighter Jet Trainer Aircraft (designated AE.9). If selected, the HÜRJET New Generation Jet Trainer Aircraft will replace 19 Northrop SF-5Ms currently being used to train SASF pilot candidates on the EF-18M Hornet and Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft at the 23rd Squadron (Ala 23) based at Talavera La Real Air Base in Badajoz. Spain had previously selected the Pilatus PC-21 (designated E.27) turboprop trainer aircraft to replace the C-101 Aviojets trainer aircraft, ordering a total of 40 aircraft in two batches (24 + 16 delivered between September 2021 and June 2022). The Integrated SASF Training System involves a two-stage training program in which pilots begin flying the PC-21 (replacing the T-35C Pillan and C-101 Aviojets) at San Javier Air Base, before moving on to advanced flight (on SF-5Ms) at Ala 23 in Talavera La Real. Therefore, if the HÜRJET, which promises innovative technologies and capabilities, is selected, the total number of aircraft from 24 has the potential to increase to 40.

Cadiz-based Spanish company Airtificial is among the foreign companies collaborating with TUSAŞ in the development phase of HÜRJET. Airtificial manufactures active and passive control arms (flight control levers) for HÜRJET. Airtificial announced on April 3, 2024 that it had signed a two-phase contract worth 4.8 million euros ($5.2 million) to manufacture control arms for mass-production HÜRJET aircraft.
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https://www.defenceturkey.com/tr/icerik/hurjet-ispanya-yolcusu-6043
 
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The performance envelope the A400M has just been expanded. Previously it was certified to air drop 19t payloads manually but its now been certified to drop 25t payloads automatically by computer control either by parachute or rolling drops on the ground during hot combat. Its also been certified to drop vehicles an RAF request.

www.janes.com

Airbus completes A400M expanded 25 t airdrop certification

Airbus announced that the full airdrop capabilities of its A400M strategic turboprop airlifter are now available to its operators after certification was granted in the...
www.janes.com www.janes.com
 
Latest fire fighting trial proves unconvincing:
A400 fitted with rapid spray system that can't match the efficiency of traditional fire bomber despite its 20t load. Main negative points are related to the fact that spraying is inherently slower than water dropping, devoid of blast that help fighting flames and the curious attribute of the A400 being unable to deliver its load while nose down (needs gravity assist).

www.aerobuzz.fr

Industrie Archives - Aerobuzz

Actualité et information aéronautique
www.aerobuzz.fr www.aerobuzz.fr
 
Its not designed as a water bomber, its designed to precision spray retardant ahead of the fire.
It could carry twice as much water as the existing aerial firefighting aircraft, but dropping that weight of water causes damage on the ground.
 
And it has no release device. This is mentioned above.
Still, MAFFS C-130 can unload all their retardant in 5s, albeit only 10t, and nose down while zooming on the fire.
MAFFS II do also away with the need to lower the cargo ramp during release, decreasing drag while increasing airplane maneuvering capabilities in terrain.

It is important to target the competition and not only an audience when designing something...
 
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They are not really targeting competition, its something you can fit in just three hours. They are targeting it as a reserve capability that can be activated rather than a plane with tanks permanently fitted that's doing nothing when not being used to fight fires.
 
The 8 MAFFS II have proven to be unreliable though, only a 65% availability rate despite having 3 aircraft and trained crews for each 2 kit.
 
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WatcherZero said:
It could carry twice as much water as the existing aerial firefighting aircraft, but dropping that weight of water causes damage on the ground.
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Considering the existence of 737 and even DC10 tankers, I don't think there's much care about water damaging the ground from impact forces.


TomcatViP said:
A400 succeeds passing V-22 Osprey refueling tests:

www.opex360.com

Pour la première fois, un A400M allemand a ravitaillé un V-22 Osprey de l'US Navy en vol - Zone Militaire

Le ravitaillement en vol des hélicoptères est une capacité qui a longtemps fait défaut à l'avion de transport A400M "Atlas", alors que celle-ci était très
www.opex360.com www.opex360.com
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Ah, interoperability with the USN. Rats. I was hoping this was a hint towards someone buying a dozen Ospreys for CSAR or Coast Guard work.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Considering the existence of 737 and even DC10 tankers, I don't think there's much care about water damaging the ground from impact forces.
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Used in rural not urban areas. For example look at the planes being used in the LA fire:
14 CL-415 Super Scooper (with two more scheduled to arrive from Canada): 1,621 Gallon capacity
12 UH-1H Super Huey: 360 Gallon
23 Grumman S-2T Airtankers: 1,200 Gallon
16 OV-10A Bronco (Spotter planes, no carrying capability)
7 C-130 (8th promised): 3,000 Gallon

To the best of my knowledge no 737's, no DC-10's, no DC-7's
 
Another issue with such massive water bombers is the time it takes to refill them, and the places that have suitable infrastructure to do so (as well as handle the plane itself).

Lighter water bombers can (generally) resupply from natural sources and even if they can’t the airstrips that can service them are far greater in number and likely far closer in proximity to the fire(s) than they would be for the heavier aircraft, meaning that even with their lower capacity they can have a greater volume of water dropped in a given time period than the larger bombers can.
 
WatcherZero said:
Used in rural not urban areas. For example look at the planes being used in the LA fire:
14 CL-415 Super Scooper (with two more scheduled to arrive from Canada): 1,621 Gallon capacity
12 UH-1H Super Huey: 360 Gallon
23 Grumman S-2T Airtankers: 1,200 Gallon
16 OV-10A Bronco (Spotter planes, no carrying capability)
7 C-130 (8th promised): 3,000 Gallon

To the best of my knowledge no 737's, no DC-10's, no DC-7's
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AIUI at least one DC-10 was deployed at the Pacific Pallisades fire.
 
WatcherZero said:
Used in rural not urban areas. For example look at the planes being used in the LA fire:
14 CL-415 Super Scooper (with two more scheduled to arrive from Canada): 1,621 Gallon capacity
12 UH-1H Super Huey: 360 Gallon
23 Grumman S-2T Airtankers: 1,200 Gallon
16 OV-10A Bronco (Spotter planes, no carrying capability)
7 C-130 (8th promised): 3,000 Gallon

To the best of my knowledge no 737's, no DC-10's, no DC-7's
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Two DC-10s are being used. Also Erickson's MD-87s are on the fire. The big stuff is working out of Fox Field east of LA which is a reasonably close distance and has loading facilities already built into the site.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQtgvfvnk6k


Interesting that the clip also shows P-2 Neptunes - last year those served before the Forestry Service banned piston engine aircraft was 2017.

www.instagram.com

Aaron Maurer on Instagram: "Erickson Aero Tankers arriving at Fox Field for the Southern California fires. Three showed on Friday to lend a hand. I do love the sound of the MD-87! #ericksonaerotanker #md87 #t107 #t104 #t103 #palisadesfire #eatonfi

1,260 likes, 22 comments - maurer8photography on January 11, 2025: "Erickson Aero Tankers arriving at Fox Field for the Southern California fires. Three showed on Friday to lend a hand. I do love the sound of the MD-87! #ericksonaerotanker #md87 #t107 #t104 #t103 #palisadesfire #eatonfire...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
LightningFan1959 said:
Another issue with such massive water bombers is the time it takes to refill them, and the places that have suitable infrastructure to do so (as well as handle the plane itself).

Lighter water bombers can (generally) resupply from natural sources and even if they can’t the airstrips that can service them are far greater in number and likely far closer in proximity to the fire(s) than they would be for the heavier aircraft, meaning that even with their lower capacity they can have a greater volume of water dropped in a given time period than the larger bombers can.
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It's southern California. There are so many airfields within 30 minutes flight of there it's not even funny.
 
WatcherZero said:
Used in rural not urban areas. For example look at the planes being used in the LA fire:
14 CL-415 Super Scooper (with two more scheduled to arrive from Canada): 1,621 Gallon capacity
12 UH-1H Super Huey: 360 Gallon
23 Grumman S-2T Airtankers: 1,200 Gallon
16 OV-10A Bronco (Spotter planes, no carrying capability)
7 C-130 (8th promised): 3,000 Gallon

To the best of my knowledge no 737's, no DC-10's, no DC-7's
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There's videos of at least 1x Tanker 10 in operation there. 9,700 gallons, some 77,600lbs of water.
 
I wonder how the A400 would fare in a restarted KC-Y competition.
If the USAF doesn't go with a Stealth tanker, what about a turboprop powered one able to refuel at med to low alt that can land on dirt strip (allegedly)?
Let's call it the ACE400 ;)
 
TomcatViP said:
I wonder how the A400 would fare in a restarted KC-Y competition.
If the USAF doesn't go with a Stealth tanker, what about a turboprop powered one able to refuel at med to low alt that can land on dirt strip (allegedly)?
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Would also be perfect to support USMC forward logistics, flying in jet fuel for MV-22s, CH-53Ks, and F-35Bs.
 
FighterJock said:
I am rather surprised that the USMC did not purchase the A-400M for just this purpose H_K.
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Ah the good old days when EADS was trying to sell the A-400M to the US!

Here's a long forgotten presentation from 2010.

A400M prez 1st slide.png
 

Attachments

  • A400M Strategic Delivery 2010.pdf
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TomcatViP said:
I wonder how the A400 would fare in a restarted KC-Y competition.
If the USAF doesn't go with a Stealth tanker, what about a turboprop powered one able to refuel at med to low alt that can land on dirt strip (allegedly)?
Let's call it the ACE400 ;)
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The only part of USAF that cares about landing on dirt strips is AFSOC, and they want a stealthy aircraft even more than the combat commands do.

Just so their Gunships and tankers have any semblance of survivability!




FighterJock said:
I am rather surprised that the USMC did not purchase the A-400M for just this purpose H_K.
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Combined response:
Arjen said:
NIH?
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Cost. A400 is stupid expensive!
 
Notwithstanding that an A400 landing on a dirt strip might need the help of another one to bring a spare engine, with a total, as quoted by Airbus, of 56t of fuel (this includes the whole fuel the airplane can carry plus two small cargo bay tanks), it's significantly more than a KC-130J for a comparable footprint (minus the nightmare of logistics*).

*where do they stand today? Is there any actual numbers that were released by any MoD?
 
FighterJock said:
I am rather surprised that the USMC did not purchase the A-400M for just this purpose H_K.
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The USMC already had a lot of KC-130s... the KC-130F entered service in 1962 (retired 2006), the KC-130R in 1976 (2007), the KC-130T in 1983 (2021) and the KC-130J in 2004.

Virtually every USMC Hercules has been a KC since the end of the Vietnam War.

And don't tell me the KC-130 is not "able to refuel at med to low alt and can land on dirt strip".
 

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