Airbus A400M - Atlas C1

[alberchico]

At last ! I wondered if they would be stuck there for ever.

I wonder if those aircraft were left unattended all this time or did Turkey insist on having some personell stay with the aircraft to keep an eye on them until they were realeased ?

 

[FighterJock]

At last ! I wondered if they would be stuck there for ever.

I wonder if those aircraft were left unattended all this time or did Turkey insist on having some personell stay with the aircraft to keep an eye on them until they were realeased ?

I am sure that there would have been armed soldiers out guarding the planes day and night to stop any trouble should it have arisen.

 

[Nart]

At last ! I wondered if they would be stuck there for ever.

I wonder if those aircraft were left unattended all this time or did Turkey insist on having some personell stay with the aircraft to keep an eye on them until they were realeased ?

Turkish Air Force personnel indeed carried out maintenance at regular intervals. This is sort of shared during the Anatolian Eagle exercise. AFAIK they didn't stay there all the time but drove from Poland to Boryspil airport.

 

[pedrospe]

At last ! I wondered if they would be stuck there for ever.

I wonder if those aircraft were left unattended all this time or did Turkey insist on having some personell stay with the aircraft to keep an eye on them until they were realeased ?

I am sure that there would have been armed soldiers out guarding the planes day and night to stop any trouble should it have arisen.

It is strange, that Russia didn't destroy the base where those aircraft were, since they already bombed everything else.

 

[starviking]

Roll-out of the first Airbus A400MP Cormorán, a marine patrol aircraft for the Spanish Navy.

http://www.airspotters.org/la-armada-se-prepara-para-recibir-su-primer-airbus-a400mp-cormoran/

Interesting! Not much on the English-speaking web on this variant. Also, perhaps non-optimal volume-wise, but good from the perspective of supporting a fleet of similar planes for MPA and transport.

Will they go full ASW though? The volume is there.

 

[Hood]

A bold move but then the Hercules has been used for a similar role.

How official is that image? The credits say "Navy (c)" but the Harpoon looks like a cut and paste addition as does the MAD. Plus the text says it won't retain the refuelling probe but whoever made this image forgot to erase it. So for now I remain sceptical until we see the real deal.

 

[FighterJock]

Roll-out of the first Airbus A400MP Cormorán, a marine patrol aircraft for the Spanish Navy.

http://www.airspotters.org/la-armada-se-prepara-para-recibir-su-primer-airbus-a400mp-cormoran/

Will the Spanish Navy be the only ones to buy the Maritime variant of the A400? Or will there be other countries interested in this development.

 

[timmymagic]

Roll-out of the first Airbus A400MP Cormorán, a marine patrol aircraft for the Spanish Navy.

http://www.airspotters.org/la-armada-se-prepara-para-recibir-su-primer-airbus-a400mp-cormoran/

Interesting! Not much on the English-speaking web on this variant. Also, perhaps non-optimal volume-wise, but good from the perspective of supporting a fleet of similar planes for MPA and transport.

Will they go full ASW though? The volume is there.

This is a spoof I'm afraid....and its worked

28th of December is the Spanish April 1st....

Origin and reason behind the Day of the Holy Innocents | spain.info

28 December is the Day of the Holy Innocents in Spain, and it’s when people play practical jokes on each other and buy prank items | spain.info

www.spain.info

You've just been had I'm afraid....

 

[zebedee]

I did wonder... the line about it lacking a FR probe when one is quite clearly visible was a very small red flag... Very nicely played though...!

Zeb

 

[FighterJock]

Roll-out of the first Airbus A400MP Cormorán, a marine patrol aircraft for the Spanish Navy.

http://www.airspotters.org/la-armada-se-prepara-para-recibir-su-primer-airbus-a400mp-cormoran/

Interesting! Not much on the English-speaking web on this variant. Also, perhaps non-optimal volume-wise, but good from the perspective of supporting a fleet of similar planes for MPA and transport.

Will they go full ASW though? The volume is there.

This is a spoof I'm afraid....and its worked

28th of December is the Spanish April 1st....

Origin and reason behind the Day of the Holy Innocents | spain.info

28 December is the Day of the Holy Innocents in Spain, and it’s when people play practical jokes on each other and buy prank items | spain.info

www.spain.info

You've just been had I'm afraid....

Damn, I thought it was too good to be true, but why put an article out like that when it was fake. I suppose that we will just need to be very careful about the date in future.

 

[TomcatViP]

Spain may cancel remaining Airbus A400M orders -sources

MADRID/PARIS (Reuters) -Doubts are growing over the future of Madrid's remaining orders for the Airbus A400M airlifter, European defence sources said on Monday, raising the stakes of talks over the planemaker's future investment in one of its founder nations. The A400M is one of Europe's core...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[FighterJock]

Spain may cancel remaining Airbus A400M orders -sources

MADRID/PARIS (Reuters) -Doubts are growing over the future of Madrid's remaining orders for the Airbus A400M airlifter, European defence sources said on Monday, raising the stakes of talks over the planemaker's future investment in one of its founder nations. The A400M is one of Europe's core...

finance.yahoo.com

Not good at all for the A400M/ Atlas C.1 especially for Spain. I cannot se why Spain are cancelling the remaining A400 order? Unless they are worried about the budget.

 

[Hood]

Depends, probably a combination of cost and need.
Does Spain really need 27 strategical-tactical airlifters? It's a big jump in capability over what they had in terms of C-130 and C-212 capability (the RAF for example is only taking 22).
How much of the A400M order book was actually based on operational need and how much was based on reaching the break-even number and workshare tussles?

 

[TomcatViP]

I fear the beginning of a NH90 situation...

 

[FighterJock]

I fear the beginning of a NH90 situation...

I don’t think that it would evolve into a NH-90 situation that involves the countries that bought it would get rid of them, look at the UK for example we do not have a through back in case we get rid of Atlas. We don’t have the C130 any more.

 

[timmymagic]

Stumbled across these when looking for the new French MALE UAV from Turgis et Gaillard, a company I have to say I've never heard of before. They appear to be a French QinetiQ/consultancy outfit on a much smaller scale.

A400M take on C-130 Harvest Hawk or Rapid Dragon...

No idea when its from, how far they've progressed, if they had a client, or if it was just speculative or who the client was if a study was undertaken. From the weapons shown (AASM Hammer) and the French markings perhaps the Armee de l'Air was the client or target...

Only images I could find are direct fom their website, so they come complete with text I'm afraid:

"The SSA-1604 Foudre, system for implementing precision ammunition from the hold of a tactical transport aircraft,"

https://imgur.com/mdBVgRu

View: https://i.imgur.com/mdBVgRu.png


"The SSA-1702 NITRATHE, surveillance, reconnaissance, targeting and transmission system, carried under the wing of a tactical transport aircraft"

https://imgur.com/MswqHXt

View: https://i.imgur.com/MswqHXt.png


They also have a pylon mounted rack for AASM for C-130.

Accueil | Turgis Gaillard

Turgis Gaillard.Nous concevons, réalisons et qualifions des aéronefs et des systèmes simples, efficaces et bon marché, adaptés aux besoins des armées françaises et de leurs alliés

www.turgisetgaillard.fr

 

[snne]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718686474642583885

View: https://twitter.com/harpmuhendisii/status/1718686474642583885?t=8LZUHU5SLvNuJz-IWyplJQ&s=19

edit: found a better footage with no crap music:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/17j3n2t

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/comments/17j3n2t/turkish_air_force_a400m_atlas_221st_sqn_breeze/

 

[TomcatViP]

Silent Arrow to be certified on A400M:

Silent Arrow

Silent Arrow® transports critically needed cargo anywhere in the world safely and efficiently.

silent-arrow.com

Un planeur logistique bientôt certifié pour un largage depuis l'A400M - FOB - Forces Operations Blog

Airbus commercialisera et intégrera un planeur logistique sur son avion de transport A400M, fruit d'un Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) signé avec le britannique MEL Aviation et l'américain Yates Aerospace Corporation.

www.forcesoperations.com

 

[Scott Kenny]

I mean its like with the new Air Force One or the tanker deal - they could have either the best plane or the American plane!

Any Presidential transport needs to be Yankee White. If not designed by appropriately cleared Americans, design thoroughly reviewed by appropriately cleared Americans, built by appropriately cleared Americans, and maintained by appropriately cleared Americans.

The tanker deal was originally to keep the 767 assembly line open.

"It was not foreseen that three propellers would be affected simultaneously, making it impossible to keep the plane airborne." (from the BBC report)
Common mode failures - the same fault happening at the same time on multiple pieces of equipment because they're all running identical software - are one of the standard failure modes your risk management safety case should address. I've worked on systems with multiple different processors and software builds to minimise the risk, but ultimately you have one common set of requirements, which mean you can't eliminate it (and that the multiple different processor/software approach isn't particularly valued by the airworthiness authorities). One of the things that means is that you should have a safety case for what happens when everything fails. In this case it looks like Airbus's decision was keep everything at flight idle, which prevents nasty stuff like overspeeds causing fires in the engine, or worst case stuff like blade separation into the fuselage or wing. Even if you lose all four engines to flight idle as a result that doesn't mean the decision is wrong, it may be the correct decision in more scenarios than it is the wrong one, and this being the wrong one doesn't invalidate that. Even with all four engines powered down to flight idle you still have a glider, admittedly a big, ungainly one, and a chance to put it down on a field somewhere ahead of you.
We're possibly getting into areas where there is a philosophical difference between Airbus and Boeing, Airbus feels the software should have the final word in envelope protection, Boeing thinks the pilot should*, my feeling is they're both right, and that in about 50% of cases you'll be better off with the Airbus philosophy, and in about 50% of cases you'll be better off with Boeing, but you don't know which it is until after the event.
* It's important to note that the most common cause of aircraft hull losses is Controlled Flight Into Terrain as the result of pilot error, giving the last word to the pilot doesn't necessarily agree with what the accident stats tell us.

Given that at least the US Federal Aviation Regulations say, "the pilot in command is the final authority on the safe operation of the aircraft, and can ignore any and every other regulation in an emergency to land safely," I think Boeing is in the right on this one.

That was one of the key decision points on the KC-46 tanker buy, the Airbus software would not allow the pilot to exceed the safe operating envelope, while the Boeing design would (while screaming warnings at the pilot to STOP THAT).

 

[Archibald]

Silent Arrow to be certified on A400M:

Silent Arrow

Silent Arrow® transports critically needed cargo anywhere in the world safely and efficiently.

silent-arrow.com

Un planeur logistique bientôt certifié pour un largage depuis l'A400M - FOB - Forces Operations Blog

Airbus commercialisera et intégrera un planeur logistique sur son avion de transport A400M, fruit d'un Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) signé avec le britannique MEL Aviation et l'américain Yates Aerospace Corporation.

www.forcesoperations.com

Wow. Never heard about that before. Smarter than a parachute, longer ranged, and quieter.

 

[Reaper]

Any Presidential transport needs to be Yankee White. If not designed by appropriately cleared Americans, design thoroughly reviewed by appropriately cleared Americans, built by appropriately cleared Americans, and maintained by appropriately cleared Americans.

Are you sure that all components, sections, subsystems etc. of Boeing aircraft are designed, manufactured, integrated... in the U.S.?

 

[Scott Kenny]

Are you sure that all components, sections, subsystems etc. of Boeing aircraft are designed, manufactured, integrated... in the U.S.?

Of all Boeing aircraft? Of course not.

Of the VC-25s used for Air Force One? Absolutely. It's a contributing factor to why those planes are as expensive as B-2s.

 

[Reaper]

But VC-25 are retrofitted commercial 747s. Are you refering to the modifications being all American?

 

[Scott Kenny]

But VC-25 are retrofitted commercial 747s. Are you refering to the modifications being all American?

Yes, all the modifications are all American. And those modifications go all the way down. Electrical, Hydraulics, communications, EMP protections, (classified) self defense systems***...

The new VC-25Bs were ordered commercially but the company went bankrupt before delivery. So those particular 747-8i planes were never operated beyond their test flights and ferry flights to storage. Functionally brand new aircraft, that are getting heavily rebuilt. Especially after someone left a bunch of tequila mini bottles inside the aircraft, gotta check every rivet and hole within about 50 feet of there. Cost of some $4.5 billion for the two planes.

*** That there are self defense systems is not classified. What those systems consist of is classified.

 

[TomcatViP]

Aah that Tequila. Never has anyone ever though about certifying the 747-8i in the Guinness book as the biggest spirit bottle (travel pack) in History?

 

[Archibald]

Especially after someone left a bunch of tequila mini bottles inside the aircraft, gotta check every rivet and hole within about 50 feet of there.

 

[Scott Kenny]

https://media.tenor.com/SeIepC9pV6sAAAAd/what-the-fuck-did-i-just-read-what-the-fuck.gif

My first job out of college was at a big repair station at the other end of Everett/Payne Field from the Boeing plant. I wish I could say I was surprised to read that they'd found a crapton of tequila mini bottles in the plane. I'm not. Bunch of (all the expletives deleted) drunks working there. Show up to work reeking of booze at the repair station and if you're lucky they won't have you shot. Show up to work at the assembly line reeking of booze? Tuesday.

 

[fightingirish]

Airbus Defence presented the A400M Stand-Off Jammer at the Berlin security conference today. But IMHO I don't see any customers so far.
Source (X fka twitter):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1729777364131831811

View: https://twitter.com/AirbusDefence/status/1729777364131831811?t=XGWkeOTRb9idBofhA60uhg&s=19

 

[Scott Kenny]

Airbus Defence presented the A400M Stand-Off Jammer at the Berlin security conference today. But IMHO I don't see any customers so far.

Compass Call equivalents. Even the USAF only has ~16 Compass Call planes in service, so I don't see much of a market for them.

 

[TomcatViP]

Interesting report on a rare update from the French air Force regarding the A400M availability:

Quant à la disponibilité, elle continue, a priori, de progresser. « Nous bénéficions de 21 avions avec une disponibilité d’environ 50% et qui, globalement, s’améliore », s’est félicité le général Feola. Et cela grâce en partie à la DMAé, qui gère les relations avec l’industrie sur « le plan de la maintenance de niveau industriel comme de l’approvisionnement logistique », a-t-il conclu.
-------------///---—------------

As for availability, it continues, a priori, to progress. “We benefit from 21 aircraft with an availability of around 50% [rationally, it's more 40% if you read the rest of the report] and which, overall, is improving,” said General Feola. And this is thanks in part to the DMAé, which manages relations with the industry on “the level of industrial level maintenance as well as logistical supply”, he concluded.

Les moteurs de l'avion de transport A400M posent toujours des problèmes à l'armée de l'Air et de l'Espace - Zone Militaire

Pour Airbus, la mise au point de l'avion de transport A400M "Atlas" aura été compliquée, en raison notamment de soucis récurrents au niveau du

www.opex360.com

Engines need an overall every 20 hours after the first visit.
Just to remind also all, 50% is what the 1960's gigantic and complex C-5 can put after all those years.

 

[Archibald]

Just to remind also all, 50% is what the 1960's gigantic and complex C-5 can put after all those years.

Apple to orange, definitively. And that anti-Airbus bias, once again.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Apple to orange, definitively. And that anti-Airbus bias, once again.

Is the story wrong, then?

 

[H_K]

Is the story wrong, then?

Yes because it’s rehashing old news. The gearbox issues have been fixed so the 20-hour inspection requirement has been lifted (at least for RAF aircraft - no reason to doubt the same applies to other operators).

There is not a lot of public info on A400M availability but from what I could find in UK parliamentary reports the RAF’s A400M fleet is now demonstrating ~70% availability, which is a significant improvement and in fact slightly better than the C130J fleet.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmdfence/178/report.html#heading-4

However the RAF metric is only a partial view as it excludes unscheduled downtime (ie. dispatch reliability) and maintenance man hours so until those details are made public (if ever) Joe Public won’t know if the A400M’s maturity issues are truly behind us or not. The trend does appear to be positive and the RAF seems confident enough to go ahead with C130J retirement… so fingers crossed.

 

[Archibald]

@H_K nailed it.

 

[H_K]

However the RAF metric is only a partial view as it excludes unscheduled downtime (ie. dispatch reliability) and maintenance man hours

I’ll add that dispatch reliability currently seems to be the #1 pain point for the RAF (and probably other operators too).

According to reports to Parliament, whereas RAF C-17s and C-130J fly ~95% of planned missions, RAF A400Ms were only flying ~80% of planned missions in 2021-22.

Planned missions: https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-11-01/75777
Missions flown: https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-10-17/63937
Aircraft « forward availability »: https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-11-08/82178
Aircraft in fleet: https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-11-07/80588

So although A400M « forward availability » reported to Parliament has improved (ie. aircraft are no longer « down » for inspection, overhauls, upgrades etc), there still seems to be a reliability gap that probably reflects unscheduled maintenance and factors. The last numbers are over a year old though so perhaps things have improved since.

 

[TomcatViP]

@overscan (PaulMM) :

This is not old news.This is the most recent update from a French military source. (quote are from the link above)

général Feola.

Quant à la motorisation, il n’est pas certain que tous les problèmes soient définitivement réglés. Au début de l’année 2023, « nous avons dû changer beaucoup plus de moteurs que prévu. Le moteur, c’est aujourd’hui le point sur lequel se concentrent certaines problématiques qu’il faut encore traiter sur cet avion », a en effet précisé le commandant de la BAAP. « Il y a sur ce point une maturité collective à acquérir, en partenariat avec l’industriel. Il faut par exemple que l’on exploite au mieux la masse de données que l’on commence à avoir sur l’utilisation des moteurs pour étudier la possibilité de faire évoluer certaines tolérances. C’est certainement une voie d’amélioration », a-t-il ensuite expliqué.
--—----------//---------------

General Feola:

As for the engine, it is not certain that all the problems have been definitively resolved. At the start of 2023, “we had to change many more engines than expected. The engine is today the point on which certain issues that still need to be addressed on this aircraft are concentrated,” said the BAAP commander. “There is a collective maturity to be acquired on this point, in partnership with the industrialist. For example, we must make the best use of the mass of data that we are beginning to have on the use of engines to study the possibility of changing certain tolerances. This is certainly an avenue for improvement,” he then explained.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

@overscan (PaulMM) :

This is not old news.This is the most recent update from a French military source. (quote are from the link above)

Yes, the engine has proved a bit problematic. I'm not sure how much Airbus can be blamed for that over Europrop.

 

[helmutkohl]

I removed a few posts because I don't want this thread to become aircraft vs aircraft. Lets stick strictly to A400M news and discussion

 

[TomcatViP]

World Defence Show 2024: Saudi Arabia exploring A330 and A400M tanker deals with Airbus | Shephard

Reports have suggested that Airbus has been in talks with Saudi Arabia to expand its fleet of military aircraft, including the procurement of A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport and A400M military transport aircraft.

www.shephardmedia.com

 

[snne]

World Defence Show 2024: Saudi Arabia exploring A330 and A400M tanker deals with Airbus | Shephard

Reports have suggested that Airbus has been in talks with Saudi Arabia to expand its fleet of military aircraft, including the procurement of A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport and A400M military transport aircraft.

www.shephardmedia.com

They already operate three MRTTs, right?