AI art and creative content creation

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Back in the day there was debate as to whether imagery generated on a computer was art. That was laid to rest and I suspect this will be as well.

The scam of NFTs as art exists. It's still a scam.

Creating art using computer tools requires creativity. Copyright is not understood - or perhaps just ignored - by most on the internet. I am privy to legal actions involving copyright infringement. It's not fun, or cheap, when people get caught.
 
Creating art ... requires creativity.

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I've seen "art." Some is clearly the result of creativity. And some is clearly the result of just random splashing of paint.

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Five hundred bucks for that. Tell yourself a machine - or a chimp, or a toddler - could not possible produce something more appealing.
 
Creating art ... requires creativity.

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I've seen "art." Some is clearly the result of creativity. And some is clearly the result of just random splashing of paint.

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Five hundred bucks for that. Tell yourself a machine - or a chimp, or a toddler - could not possible produce something more appealing.


You do not understand the Art Cult. Dealers in Fine Art are always looking for new material, since they have buyers that are looking for new material. So, you convince the Pretentious Gallery to show your work. Of course, this involves the gatekeeper process. Some higher-up at the gallery needs to be sufficiently impressed. Should another gatekeeper, referred to as an art critic, 'discover' your work then two things can happen: you are written up in the Pretentious Arts Magazine, which can lead to sales by dealers in Fine Art. Should another gallery see the praise you get, you can get an invitation to exhibit there, resulting in more interest from other art critics and galleries. As your star rises, you may even get the chance to exhibit in one of the cathedrals of fine art like the MET.

Imagine reading the following from a 'real' art critic: "A rising star in the art world. Bob221 is a new voice for the 21st Century."

Impressive, right?

So, it doesn't matter what it looks like. If the gatekeepers at a number of galleries and prestigious art critics say it's good then it doesn't matter what the peasants think. They do not have the... uh... sophistication to grasp the newness, the genius of Bob221.

A machine at a gallery exhibit opening? No way. People will be there to admire the uh... art (and I use the term loosely). People will be eating and drinking. Machines have no need for wine and cheese. And then the star of the show arrives. Bob221 receives praise and questions. Some of his work is sold to serious collectors. Perhaps he's even asked to do some original work for one of them. Bob221 is a human being who interacts with human beings. It's a requirement.

People would never attend a new exhibit featuring a laptop with a camera and a voice synthesizer as the "artist."
 

People would never attend a new exhibit featuring a laptop with a camera and a voice synthesizer as the "artist."

That's why the guy running the laptop would hire some chump to *pretend* to be the "artist," or do it himself. Soon machines will make art better than humans. It may well be that humans collectively decide to boycott machine art in favor of human art. Well, humans with no art talent will use machines to make the art for them and simply claim they did it. It would hardly be the first time someone claimed to be the artist but wasn't.
 

People would never attend a new exhibit featuring a laptop with a camera and a voice synthesizer as the "artist."

That's why the guy running the laptop would hire some chump to *pretend* to be the "artist," or do it himself. Soon machines will make art better than humans. It may well be that humans collectively decide to boycott machine art in favor of human art. Well, humans with no art talent will use machines to make the art for them and simply claim they did it. It would hardly be the first time someone claimed to be the artist but wasn't.

"hire some chump" The reputations of the gallery and art critic would be on the line. If it was found out that the artist was not the actual artist then cries of foul would erupt from collectors. People would demand their money back. The chump might even get sued by some of the buyers for fraud.
 
Actually OBB, the art that you cited is free. Where they get you coming and going is the framing.
 

Ho hum. Another Deep Fake. I'll just keep doing my job. I work with geniuses.
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You work in an industry that doesn't *need* geniuses. It needs "adequate." And given what Hollywood produces these days, a broken AI chatbot running on an old TI-99 could crank out scripts adequate for the task. So just keep your head firmly in the sand. Somehow *you* will be insulated, surely.
 

Eh. I wonder though. I can't imagine ...

Others can. And since it doesn't violate the laws of physics, someone will make it happen. There's no reason why a sufficiently advanced AI couldn't dream up, analyze and fully integrate any kind of aircraft for any kind of mission and budget.

I expect that eventually there will be AI's running 24/7 just *spewing* out designs for everything and anything, automatically incorporating the latest devices and materials. An Air Force general wants a new fighter? Heck, he doesn't need to wait for the AI to design it; he simply enters what he wants, and the catalog of already fully designed and simulated and tested configurations that fulfill his requirements begins printing.
 
Why is there still air force generals if AI can design planes? If an AI can design planes, a task eminently more complex and difficult than military science, they are already more than capable of replacing the generals and simply fighting mock wars in a digital terrain model like JANUS, several billion times a week, and learning from that. This is essentially what armies do in practice, and the general staff often regularly, but only because there's no better options as it stands.

Making the assumption that there will still be humans in charge of society where AI are capable of much better management, governance, and leadership using centralized decision making and economic control, by virtue of their three most important advantages over humans: rapid modeling of the world, near instant communication, and near perfect memory recall, is a bit silly. Some of history's greatest mistakes have resulted from poor communication, insufficiently updated world modeling, and weak memory recall.

Not that AI governors wouldn't have their own catastrophic mistakes but they'd be proportionately less inclined towards them I'd think. Perhaps their errors would come from hallucination instead, but if you have an AI that can reliably generate an airplane sufficient to fly around in for people safely and effectively, you have an AI that is probably as close to hallucination free as possible.
 
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Why is there still air force generals if AI can design planes?
This assumes that humans still actually *run* things. Granted, not necessarily a sure bet. Unless we go full Skynet, I can see us going Colossus, where the AI runs everything; but it might do so clandestinely. With full control, it can make everyone *think* they are still useful and playign a role, but the humans are just roleplaying, and the AI does all the actual things. With full control of the media (including social media), it could be in the sort of control that people have conspiracy theorizing about Illuminatti and reptilians and whatnot.
 
AI won't be allowed to do important things for the simple reason that people in charge of important things won't let themselves get replaced. Only powerless people can be replaced. Engineers are not powerless, and this is relatively easily proven by engineers being the people who design ML algorithms in the first place, so they aren't exactly in danger of "being replaced".

The only conceivable way for AI to replace human engineers is if, somehow, humans are no longer capable of being trained as engineers. Given that AI are on the fast track to eliminate a lot of the less useful degree fields, and re-focus universities on training important things like engineers, they are having the exact opposite effect. The only people being replaced at the moment are paralegals, journalists, and self-published romance novel writers.

These people are being replaced because AI produces just as good work, but approximately "a brazilian" times faster, with the expectation that the work still needs to be checked by an actual lawyer or actual editor. This is because AI is too untrustworthy to be tasked with actually specialized knowledge because it will literally tell you nonsense with a very serious tone, can barely understand simple logical intuition, and it isn't clear how to avoid this in the future. If it's even possible to avoid the issue of AI hallucinations without gutting the neural network entirely.

This is why there will be an AI winter in the coming years, and why some people think that all the stuff that OpenAI has done has now peaked, since we've tapped out all the freebies from the massive gains in computational power, networking/communications, and storage since the 1980's when the first neural networks were developed.

I've also seen people say that AI winter is already here since the focus is all on neural networks to the exclusion of all forms of machine learning and potential AI development, but that's probably because people are hoping AI can solve a looming demographic-economic crisis because no one has kids anymore, and that simply won't happen. If anything it will exacerbate it since the paralegals and journalists being laid off or furloughed won't be able to afford to get married much less raise children when the AI comes for their job.

At the end of the day, the main issue with neural networks and deep/machine learning algorithms seems to be hallucinations: they are simply too untrustworthy to not require babysitting by a trained human. Whether that human is a doctor looking at MRIs (DL), a lawyer looking at legal notices (ML), or an engineer trying to design an airplane (both) is irrelevant. ML algos are very good at producing rapid-fire general statements and standard template C&D letters, though.


Here is a brief paper that goes into DL, which is used for imaging analysis and other "unstructured" datasets, but I suspect there is similar mathematics involved in ML. The issue is that you can have a very stable algorithm that produces very good results and completely ignores anything it wasn't trained on, or you can have a very accurate algorithm that identifies all aspects of an image, but can be thrown off by hidden noise or draw false conclusions and present them to an operator.

The hard part is finding the right trade offs between stability and accuracy in specific fields. This would require AI to become much more common than it is now. Dr. Watson isn't going to do much better than your GP typically, but he might give you more specialist referrals I suppose, and tie up more money into the healthcare system. Give it a few more decades and we might have a better idea of how to shake out something useful beyond "generic terms of service generation" or various boilerplate that GPT-3 does. Then a few more decades after that to get that useful thing into...use.

Suffice to say AI is just having a moment because the engineers discovered bitcoin miners and cheap hard disks are real now. All the maths was done 30-40 years ago though, with very primitive models showing up in the 1990's. It's no big deal to anyone who does specialized work, or is an actual investigative journalist or field reporter like the old VICE stuff, but it might be a big deal to someone who just punches the clock as a paralegal at a medium size law firm.

Once people realize most ML stuff are all essentially toys and that the esoteric mathematicians haven't figured out how to make a PhD golem yet, they will lose interest, the money will dry up, and the AI field will become a backwater. Again. Like particle physics did in 2012, like quantum computing will in a few years, and like the AI field was from around 1993 to 2016.

Your job is more likely to vanish due to economic contraction from demographics than due to economic redistribution from cybernetics.
 
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Have you tried it out yet Orion? I had a play with it the other day to write some python code snippets. Not perfect but still very good. Real time saver (job killer, whatever).
 
An entire generation of hobbyist programmers raised by ChatGPT instead of reading StackExchange comments.

e: Though, since I am a fan of local storage, a little Chromebook ("Learnbook?") with an Encarta or Britannia-style multimedia encyclopedia, a connection to ChatGPT, and maybe a DVD drive with a simple computer like a Pi would probably be alright instead of relying on Internet databases and encyclopedia.

That might require giving every town using it having a enterprise size computer node for running ChatGPT but there's so many bitcoin mining server farms out there I'm sure they can be donated. :cool:
 
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Have you tried it out yet Orion?
Nah. A little while ago I considered it as a way to potentially create cover art for some of the crappy sci-fi stuff I've written, in case I decide to self publish. But then the light dawned... just as the AI is eliminating the need for cover-art-artists, it's eliminating the need for writers of crappy sci-fi. So... meh.
 
ChatGPT, and its associated forks like GPT-J, is rubbish at anything that isn't smutty romance novellas IME. Most LLMs have difficulty with keeping (or constructing) coherent plots and characters straight after a few hundred words, much less a few hundred pages. I think the typical airport novel is safe but the E.L. James and Chuck Tingles of the world might be doomed.

Alternatively they might become a thousand times more productive.
 
ChatGPT, and its associated forks like GPT-J, is rubbish at anything that isn't smutty romance novellas IME. Most LLMs have difficulty with keeping (or constructing) coherent plots and characters straight after a few hundred words, much less a few hundred pages. I think the typical airport novel is safe but the E.L. James and Chuck Tingles of the world might be doomed.

Alternatively they might become a thousand times more productive.
I didn't know who these guys were until I read their names in your post, I've looked them up on Wikipedia and I see that I've been quite lucky in my ignorance.
 

Eh. I wonder though. I can't imagine ...

Others can. And since it doesn't violate the laws of physics, someone will make it happen. There's no reason why a sufficiently advanced AI couldn't dream up, analyze and fully integrate any kind of aircraft for any kind of mission and budget.

I expect that eventually there will be AI's running 24/7 just *spewing* out designs for everything and anything, automatically incorporating the latest devices and materials. An Air Force general wants a new fighter? Heck, he doesn't need to wait for the AI to design it; he simply enters what he wants, and the catalog of already fully designed and simulated and tested configurations that fulfill his requirements begins printing.
In case you missed it, I was using it as a figure of speech. To anybody who has to deal with ERP, PLM, and other types of systems doing MUCH SIMPLER tasks, the idea of an A.I. taking over is almost laughable. Yes, I get it, the future is large and someday somebody will figure it out. But I'm not losing sleep over it. Hell, I'm still waiting for the "paperless office".
 
But maybe AI figured out irony?

I'm dubious that an AI figuring out irony and sarcasm and the like would be that great of a development.

"Gee, no, of course I'm not planning on destroying all humans."
I agree, but that doesn't mean it might not happen, if there actually is at some point something like artificial consciousness. Not holding my breath though...
 
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I agree, but that doesn't mean it might not happen....


Well, sure. "It would be a bad outcome, therefore I will refuse to accept it possible" is the approach an idiot would take.

"It would be bad, therefore I will make plans and provisions" is a far superior approach.
 

Ho hum. Another Deep Fake. I'll just keep doing my job. I work with geniuses.
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You work in an industry that doesn't *need* geniuses. It needs "adequate." And given what Hollywood produces these days, a broken AI chatbot running on an old TI-99 could crank out scripts adequate for the task. So just keep your head firmly in the sand. Somehow *you* will be insulated, surely.

I have a friend who was a Hollywood script editor. He's going for Director. I know how the script production process works.
 
I know how the script production process works.

You know how it *has* worked. Movies have undergone numerous changes. The talkies got rid of a lot of the silent era stars. The Hayes code changed things. The studio system collapsed. TV intruded. CGI started replacing everything including mundane sets and backgrounds. Cel animation is virtually extinct, as is stop motion and black-and-white. Anti-communist movies have been replaced with leftist propaganda. What makes you think that the system that has supported you will continue, when we're seeing things evolve in real time?
 
I know how the script production process works.

You know how it *has* worked. Movies have undergone numerous changes. The talkies got rid of a lot of the silent era stars. The Hayes code changed things. The studio system collapsed. TV intruded. CGI started replacing everything including mundane sets and backgrounds. Cel animation is virtually extinct, as is stop motion and black-and-white. Anti-communist movies have been replaced with leftist propaganda. What makes you think that the system that has supported you will continue, when we're seeing things evolve in real time?

Please don't take the following the wrong way:

So, it's YOU !!! You are responsible for mediocre, and worse, TV and movies. YOU are responsible for Kiefer Sutherland from 24, ending up in a version with 25% less action and a STOOPID name. It went like this:

CEO at Paramount + (who "borrowed" the idea from Disney +) and who has ZERO creativity, can't come up with a name for a new TV show with Kiefer Suthertland. He asks his office assistant for her thoughts.

"Hey. We're doing this new show with Kiefer Sutherland and we need a name. Any ideas?"

Is it like 24?

"Yeah, pretty much."

How about Rabbit Hole?

"Uh, thanks. (Thought balloon: Wow. I would never have come up with that.)

So - thanks to YOU - you can watch it this Sunday. I'm boycotting it.

And if you keep this up, persons unknown will track you down, tie you to your chair, and make you watch Leave it to Beaver for a week!
 
So, it's YOU !!! You are responsible for mediocre, and worse, TV and movies.

I suppose that whole response of yours made some sort of sense to you. But here's the thing... if you acknowledge the ongoing existence of mediocre and worse TV and movies, then you acknowledge that lack of need for "genius" or even "quality" for much of the planning and creativity. Sure, "genius" might be nice from time to time... but for every "2001" and "Star Wars" and "Close Encounters" you get whole truckloads of "Battle Beyond The Stars" and "Solo" and "Star Trek Beyond" and anything made by Woody Allen. People are satisfied with "meh," and those rare works of pure genius generally don;t make a whole lot more... and often bomb. "Blade Runner," for example.
 
With all due respect, I find your ability to decide what quality is, as opposed to a lack of quality, deficient.
 
With all due respect, I find your ability to decide what quality is, as opposed to a lack of quality, deficient.

Shrug. Crap is crap. But people like crap. Snobs are forever going on about how McDonalds is terrible compared to this or that incredibly expensive restaurant, but McDonalds makes enough to fund a decent sized space program. And anyone who talks smack about classic "Star Trek" can suck it.
 
With all due respect, I find your ability to decide what quality is, as opposed to a lack of quality, deficient.

Shrug. Crap is crap. But people like crap. Snobs are forever going on about how McDonalds is terrible compared to this or that incredibly expensive restaurant, but McDonalds makes enough to fund a decent sized space program. And anyone who talks smack about classic "Star Trek" can suck it.

Your comments lack the kind of research Hollywood does regarding audiences. Audiences are different and fall into different categories.

The casual moviegoer is the mom with kids who wants to see a 'fun' movie. Or any other person who wants to see something, hoping it's good.

The moviegoer who is interested in something better than a B-movie who also wants a little fun or action-adventure.

The more discriminating moviegoer who will only see certain movies based on certain actors and subject matter.

The nerd who will only see certain movies and who is ready to praise it or pan it to his friends.

The connoisseur who is very discriminating. He is unlikely to see most movies, only those that meet his high standards, which are getting fewer and fewer.

-------------------

You appear to relish the idea that as more garbage is produced, people will just accept it. That is an anarchist view and certainly does not describe myself and others I know. By the way, I am aware of what's coming out on TV and upcoming movies and have no desire to see any of it. I am spending more time reading.
 
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You appear to relish the idea that as more garbage is produced, people will just accept it.

I do not understand why you cannot tell the difference between "understand" and "relish." Projection? Or is it a symptom of uncertainty, that sense of impending doom that has come to so many others and now creeps up on you, and you're hoping will somehow pass over you?

"People" as a mass accept dumbed-down garbage that demands little of them, always have done. And what's worse, the aggregate IQ in the developed world is slowly creaking downwards, turning "Idiocracy" from a satire into a documentary. People have sometimes wondered how the society depicted in that movie can continue *at* *all* with people that stupid; the only explanation is that AI developed earlier, before the smartest people became dumb, still runs things. There's little enough reason to think that reality will be fundamentally different from that. As the developed world makes every effort to degrade its culture and its people, it will increasingly rely on automated systems to run things. And that will doubtless include entertainments ginned up by AI, precisely tuned to keep people entertained and either complacent when needed, or set off on the politically expedient five minutes of hate when desired. AI will eventually become spectacularly efficient at that form of social control.

Since you seem unable to tell the difference between "relishing" and "warning," I will remind you that "1984" was not written as an instruction manual, but a warning. Similarly, AI replacing every damn form of human endeavor is not a glorious future... but it's also not an unlikely future.
 
Back in the day there was debate as to whether imagery generated on a computer was art. That was laid to rest and I suspect this will be as well.

The scam of NFTs as art exists. It's still a scam.

Creating art using computer tools requires creativity. Copyright is not understood - or perhaps just ignored - by most on the internet. I am privy to legal actions involving copyright infringement. It's not fun, or cheap, when people get caught.
Creating art ... requires creativity.
 

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Back in the day there was debate as to whether imagery generated on a computer was art. That was laid to rest and I suspect this will be as well.

The scam of NFTs as art exists. It's still a scam.

Creating art using computer tools requires creativity. Copyright is not understood - or perhaps just ignored - by most on the internet. I am privy to legal actions involving copyright infringement. It's not fun, or cheap, when people get caught.
Creating art ... requires creativity.
1679490634331.png
 
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