Advanced Harrier Projects

[RAP]

Thank you Paul, they look much cleaner. I try to clean these up when I post them but sometimes seem to make them worse. Can I ask what you do? Thanks, Rich.

 

[SteveO]

Awesome!

Is that a minature infrared line scanner under the cockpit in the inboard profile pic?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Thank you Paul, they look much cleaner. I try to clean these up when I post them but sometimes seem to make them worse. Can I ask what you do? Thanks, Rich.

I'll post a tutorial when I get a chance.

I use GIMP which is a free photo editing program.

 

[SteveO]

If I remember correctly the 10 inch extension to the intakes would have significantly improved the performance of the Pegasus engine and it was a source of regret that it didn't make it on to the AV-8B.

 

[TsrJoe]

Just looking at the drawing in Chris's 'Admiralty & AEW' volume with a view to making a model of the 'Sidetrack' proposal Sea Harrier, i then dug out the 1997 Flight reference showing same to try glean any further information, alas to no avail but noticed that the model photographed seems to have a different wing to 'standard' with a possible straight trailing edge? (or at least a wider tip perhaps?) the extended T.2 type tail also makes it look rather different but is that a standard height tailfin shown too ?
I was wondering if anyone out there had more information on the proposal, a possible planform drawing or even any dimensions of the radar arrays themselves?
many thanks, Joe Cherrie
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1997/1997%20-%200676.pdf

Harrier AEW.JPG (14.31 kB, 392x314 - viewed 393 times.)

 

[elmayerle]

On page 474 of Pegasus: The Heart of the Harrier, it mentions a number of Harrier II Upgrade studies, all of which had a foot-long extension added aft of the cockpit and one of which had another 20-inch extension aft of the wing. I believe below is that last study plus one other bit of St. Louis art that intrigues the daylights out of me.


As to where I got these, they were acquired while I was contracting at another Boeing division and that's all I'll say.

 

[Jemiba]

Nice to see you back here again !

Looks like the "Big Wing" GR.5, though I'm not sure about the fuselage plugs.
(#67 to 71)

 

[elmayerle]

The wing looks to be the Harrier II wing with a production version of the wingtip Sidewinder installation that St. Louis trialed.

 

[CostasTT]

Higher resolution version of the last photo:

 

[yasotay]

May not be the right place for this, but given that the USMC has said they are now planning on keeping AV-8 in the inventory till at least 2030, anyone have any guesses on what sort of improvments will be likely?

 

[stealth-uk]

I know this is just speculation but the twin tail harrier looks similar to the aircraft depicted on the carrier in this article about dera`s trimaran studies. http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TGYEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=twopage&q&f=false

It is easiest to see when fully zoomed in.

 

[AeroFranz]

May not be the right place for this, but given that the USMC has said they are now planning on keeping AV-8 in the inventory till at least 2030, anyone have any guesses on what sort of improvments will be likely?

My money is against anything airframe related - most likely tweaks to avionics, sensors, maybe getting more power out of the engine without radical modifications.

 

[Machdiamond]

Nice to see you back here again !

I second the motion!

 

[elmayerle]

Got a question to throw out. I've seen references in the past to St. Louis looking at zero-scarf rear nozzles. Does anyone have any firm data on these or if they even made it to the hardware stage?

 

[elmayerle]

May not be the right place for this, but given that the USMC has said they are now planning on keeping AV-8 in the inventory till at least 2030, anyone have any guesses on what sort of improvments will be likely?

My money is against anything airframe related - most likely tweaks to avionics, sensors, maybe getting more power out of the engine without radical modifications.

The most obvious upgrades are to pick up systems improvements from other aircraft in the USMC fleet to simplify logistics. The AN/APG-73 of the F/A-18C/D or, if it's backwards compatible, the F/A-18E/F's AN/APG-79 would be the most obvious upgrade. For the AV-8B(NA) aircraft, I can see replacing the ARBS with more modern electro-optical systems, perhaps the "guts" of the Lightening II pod or SNIPER pod.

 

[RAP]

While not specifically a Harrier project, I thought this illustration was interesting. Found it on the Flight archives photo section, no description given. Feel free to move if there is already a topic I missed that covers this type of thing.

 

[Jemiba]

Looks like the AVPRO EXINT pod, we had here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1476.msg12404.html#msg12404

 

[Grey Havoc]

Funnily enough the JMSDF planned a similar vessel, the DDV, in the 1980s - though it got "sunk" due to adverse publicity.

10 Radar-equipped Harriers and 4 AEW Helos would have been the complement, ASM-carrying Soviet bombers the target.

More here (Link courtesy of Grey Havoc)

On an interesting note, the MSDF also looked at a development of the TAV-8B as an EW platform (h/t Geoff).

 

[RAP]

Some info on the AV-16.

 

[RAP]

Couple of illustrations of the 2 seat AV-16 from Flight magazine. Sorry for the low quality pics.

 

[SteveO]

Thanks again RAP

 

[The Artist]

This photographic print of some McDonnell Douglas Harrier concept art came into the Museum in a recent donation. No information of the designation, or model number, but the date stamped on the back is Oct. 26, 1970, and it has a McDonnell Douglas negative number.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Interesting. Timing says AV-16, picture shows leading edge slats, and very short nose (with raised cockpit).

 

[Hood]

The intakes also look to be deeper than the Harrier too.

 

[RAP]

Not sure if this is the place for this. Supersonic V/STOL upgraded Rolls Royce Pegasus engine.

 

[hesham]

From; American Attack Aircraft Since 1926,

here is the AV-16 3-view.

 

[Triton]

McDonnell Douglas AV-16A Advanced Harrier advertisement from 1973.

Source:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-1974-PUB-MCDONNELL-DOUGLAS-AV-16A-ADVANCED-HARRIER-V-STOL-AV-8A-USMC-RAF-AD-/291614930673

 

[FighterJock]

It is a shame that none of those advanced Harriers came to be built and put into service. My favourite advanced Harrier would have to be the P1154 (the original Harrier).

 

[hesham]

From L+K 21/1974

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

Celebrating the Centenary of the RAE - Royal Aeronautical Society

In addition to 2018 marking the centenary of the RAF, it is also the centenary of the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) in Farnborough. BILL READ FRAeS reports from the FAST Museum in Farnborough on the work of the RAE in many aerospace research projects.

www.aerosociety.com

"On display at the FAST museum is this model of a W-wing Harrier GR5 which was adapted by DERA Farnborough in the early 1990s (in co-operation with BAe) to test the suitability of an M or W wing for use on a STOVL aircraft. The model, which incorporated fully scaled blown jets fed by high-pressure air (at up to 100bar) through the hollow support strut, was tested in the 5m wind-tunnel at Farnborough."

 

[riggerrob]

While not specifically a Harrier project, I thought this illustration was interesting. Found it on the Flight archives photo section, no description given. Feel free to move if there is already a topic I missed that covers this type of thing.

Those sort of man-pods have been proposed a variety of times dating as far back as WW2 when Russians hung man-pods under a Polikarpov light biplane.
Man-pods were flight-tested on a Junkers 52 Stuka.
Another streamlined (looking like a drop tank) man-pod was proposed for Harriers.
Man-pods have even been suggested for AH-64 Apache attack helicopters. The primary mission being casualty evacuation under fire. After Americans wasted many thousands of dollars on man-pod mockups, the Israelis just added seat-belts to the stub wings and told the wounded to enjoy the breeze for a few minutes.
Hah!
Hah!

 

[blackkite]

I cannot forget the air show held in 1972 in Iruma, Tokyo. Harrier, standing still in the air, stood upright and climbed straight up. I was really surprised to see this. The sound was very loud. The F-35B cannot do this.

 

[FighterJock]

Hi! Toyota Harrier.This car cannot do VTOL.View attachment 627335

One day perhaps blackkite, there may be flying car's that will do VSTOL. I have seen online several design concepts that have props that can swivel down for take off and landing just Like a Harrier.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! AV-16 S-6.(H.S.1185)

Phiên bản "Cánh lớn" của cường kích Harrier có gì đặc biệt?

Theo quá trình phát triển, máy bay cường kích cất hạ cánh thẳng đứng Harrier đã được sản xuất dựa trên những định nghĩa mới.

soha.vn

Hawker Siddeley Harrier

Hey guys tnx for the response, yes i screwed intake and nozzle fairing topology but decided to continue with project. I used reference photos from http://file:///F:/ProjectFolder/Blender/Blueprints/Air/Harrier/walk-around%20of%20Hawker%20Siddeley%20Harrier%20GR.3.html.

blenderartists.org

 

[fightingirish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1297805850548023298

View: https://twitter.com/tempest_books/status/1297805850548023298?s=20

If this post is in the false topic, please let me know, so I can delete or move this post to a more suitable topic.

 

[Sundog]

If this post is in the false topic, please let me know, so I can delete or move this post to a more suitable topic.

Sort of to your description of how it looks, my first thought was, "A shortened P.1154."

 

[blackkite]

Hi! P.1185.
https://ukx-dev.fandom.com/wiki/Hawker_P1185
"After 5 years flying the AV-8A (and the improved C variant), the USMC wanted more out of their Harriers. The US Government initiated the AV-16 programme - so called because the aim was to double the range and payload of the Harrier. Over the pond, the RAF had improved their GR1s to GR3s, and were now looking for better performance.

The P1185 was the result of work in St Louis of the Hawker / McDonnell Douglas Harrier joint venture to improve the AV-8A in the AV-16 programme (so called because it’s aim was to double the capability of the AV-8). The P1185 featured some evolutions of the phase 1 Harrier - a raised cockpit as in the Sea Harrier; a bigger wing with an 8” increase in span over the phase 1, and 8 feet added to the length to give the horizontal stabilisers more pitch effect. The biggest change however was am evolution of the pegasus engine to position the nozzels much lower and thus avoid exhaust gasses interfering with the control surfaces. The programme proposals included the subsonic AV-16 and the supersonic AV-16+.

Whilst the RAF had drawn up AST.396 for a mid 1980s Harrier/Jaguar replacement, they had never been enthused with VTOL and were not overly enthusiastic for another Harrier. The programme was cancelled in 1974 due to divergent requirements - the USMC wanter a bigger bomb truck, whilst the RAF wanted multi-role. The US Marine Corps stuck with the Harrier and McDonnell Douglas salvaged much of the AV-16 programme research to develop the AV-8B."

 

[blackkite]

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2018/11/mcdonnell-douglas-av-16-advanced.html
"An advanced Harrier proposal from 1973. The Advanced Harrier project gained the unofficial designation of AV-16 while Hawker Siddeley assigned the designation of P.1184 to it."

 

[blackkite]

Hi! P.1184-16.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://youroker.livejournal.com/83441.html

蛇乃目伍長の「エアフォースの英国面に来い！」 Mk.2 : ホーカー・シドレーP.1184-16

translate.google.com

"It seems that this rear seat plays a role of guiding the missile, SRAAM (Short Range Air-to-Air Missile) and the new ASM mounted on the twin tube that can be seen in the plan view when launching backwards. A small radar for guidance is installed inside.
It may be said, "What's wrong with looking backwards?", But SRAAM focused on high maneuver performance for fighting battles."

 

[archipeppe]

The odd P.1184-16 reminds me such already odd stuff:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aac-phalanx-vtol-projects.234/post-26316