ADO-12 to "US-FRG" AVS V/STOL Fighter Programs

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I have a vague recollection of seeing pivoting tailplanes in one of the dozens (hundreds?) of NASA VG reports. Can't be certain however.

Maybe its designed to GOR 169, the VTOL predecessor to GOR 183?

Nose looks strike/recce configured however.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Found it. Its in Technical Memorandum X-1272 dated 1966

Recent aerodynamic studies applicable to high performance maneuvering aircraft

Recent aerodynamic studies applicable to high performance maneuvering aircraft - NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

ntrs.nasa.gov

The paper discusses ways of improving VG fighter manouverability at higher speeds and includes retractable canards (as seen on McDD VFX design) and variable sweep tailplanes.

Not sure of relevance to this model however.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

I plan on going back and asking nicely about taking more photos of the model and finding out if any info is available (doubt it). It is a small museum that is struggling (I helped out years ago at the previous iteration of the museum). Still, it might be worth it to see what else might be lurking about and my scanning abilities are light years better than the first go around.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Orionblamblam]

I plan on going back and asking nicely about taking more photos of the model and finding out if any info is available (doubt it).

A photography suggestion. If you cannot get the model brought down to you for convenient photography... get a tripod (a $15 cheapo model will do) and use the cameras "timer" function. Attach the camera to the tripod, extend the legs of the tripod, but keep the legs folded together. You now have a "camera on a stick." Set the camera to take a picture in 2 or 3 seconds. Push the button, raise the camera on a stick (having angled the camera to look slightly down), then raise the camera as high and ovehead as you can. Viola. You can now take ovehead photos of the model, including - hopefully - the stand it's attached to which - hopefully - gives full details regarding designation and perhaps scale. Bringing a ruler with you would also be helpful, just in case the scale of the model is given.

I've used this technique many times. However, since aiming is almost pure guesswork, taking lots of photos is probably a must. But the beauty of digital cameras is that ill-framed or blurry photos don't cost anything.

 

[JJC]

it has a certain look about it, F-111B I mean kind of

 

[Thorvic]

Whats with the vents under the fuselage, a lift engine for improved manouverability ?, but for a fighter why the odd nose which limits radar, unless its a gun or the intake for lift device ?

G

 

[Mark Nankivil]

The lower face of the nose has a painted window to represent some sort of sensor window, hence the unique shape.

Thanks for the idea Scott - I fully expect to be able to bring the model down and being able to thoroughly photograph it. I will also be asking what other models they may have stashed away

I did see two wind tunnel wing sections I want to photograph too - one is the right wing of the F-15 and the other is an iteration of an F-4E wing with a cambered leading edge on the outer panel. Probably one of the options looked at during the Agile Eagle evaluation which led to the slatted wing.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Creative]

Variable geometry tail, never seen that before

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Hi All -

Stopped by the museum yesterday with my son to see about taking a few more photos of the model. Turned out I had the chance and will go back to do a more balanced job later on. The model base states "McDonnell Supersonic V/STOL Strike Fighter with Mechanical Lift Fan" so we're likely looking at mid-60s and before the McD-D merger. Neat model too - the belly separates and exposes the internals as you can see below...

The docent working mentioned that he has more information on the design and will dig it up for me. I joined the museum and will pitch in where i can and see what else I can uncover that would fit here in the forum.

Also photographed some other interesting models - will post in the appropriate threads.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Mark Nankivil]

...and a couple more...

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

Thanks very much, Mark

With respect to "The docent working mentioned that he has more information on the design and will dig it up for me."

I for one would be interested in knowing where they put the fuel.

 

[Skybolt]

There were plenty of study requirements and the like concerning supersonic V/STOL between 1960 and 1965. One comprised the Republic AP-100 and an unnamed Hiller and much more. Slightly later, Lune 1963, USAF had an Advanced Development Objective (ADO) numbered 12, awarded in late October same year to Boeing and Republic again (one of the Republic proposal was the VG with three lift fans in mid fuselage). For this ADO competed at least Lockheed too, with Model 802 variations (derivatives of F-104 and completely new aircrafts). Still later there was a stretched F-111 with lift-fans in circa 1965 (extreme STOL ?). Could have been originated by same spec of this McD.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

I agree Tommy - maybe some high density boron fuel

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[LowObservable]

Shaft-driven lift fans? That'll never work.

 

[circle-5]

This Republic shop model shows the 1967 vintage of AVS, as envisioned by the Fairchild/Republic side of the partnership (same as in the May, 1967 Aviation Week article).

Later AVS designs from 1968, such as the color scan above, were mostly influenced by the EWR team in Germany, with a focus on minimizing hot gas recirculation by moving the main engine intakes to above the wing.

In the final layout of AVS (which became the A-400 in 1968 after the end of US participation), these intakes were moved further back, using the wing apex and VG glove areas to further shield them from hot exhaust at ground level.

 

[circle-5]

I believe (with reasonable certainty) that the factory model below is of the elusive Boeing-EWR 360, the first product of the US/FRG VSTOL fighter cooperation. However, I would appreciate some confirmation in the form of a drawing, rendering or other document.

I understand Boeing had set aside about 30 engineers for about 12 months in support of this project, with most of them going to Munich. That is a sizable investment, with nary a trace of this effort left anywhere.

The model shows all the complexity of later AVS designs: variable geometry, plus four lift jets, plus two main engines - with vectoring thrust - and a crew of two. Not introduced yet were the retractable, gimbal-swiveling pairs of lift jets favored by later engineering teams. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[circle-5]

A couple of small pictures from the Cradle of Aviation Museum, showing the late version of AVS on a Republic stand.

Fairchild-Republic would later use much of its AVS engineering know-how in developing the FR-150, a VTOL SCS fighter proposal. The FR-150 was basically a "half-AVS", with one vectored-thrust main engine and two, single pop-out swiveling lift engines, for a total of three engines instead of six.

 

[Antonio]

Great contribution!. Thanks

 

[uk 75]

Circle 5

I am blown away. I have been searching for years for these elusive American models having seen artwork and models of other versions of the AVS in magazines and in the German Museum in Munich.

Now all I need is to get some decent three view drawings so I can get me some models made, as the originals are rarer than hen's teeth. Help gratefully appreciated.

UK 75

 

[circle-5]

UK 75 -- Yes, the German museum has some good models of these projects, including the big skeleton model shown below. They are likely to have archival copies of the documents you are looking for.

 

[uk 75]

circle-5

Thanks for the pics. I remember the models well in the glass case at Schwanheim. I did try asking about documentation, but I think like in Britain the stuff is still protected. Maybe worth another try.

Quite often models are not matched with good three views. The last version of the AVS (A400) has a good two view, as does the earlier A200 version. There is also the widely reproduced three view of a middle version (above on this thread), which I have as well.

UK 75

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Source:
Cradle of Aviation Museum via Leo Polaski and Mark Nankivil

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4512.msg35741.html#msg35741

 

[nugo]

HI Skybolt!

If you can show Lockheed Model CL-802 variations (derivatives of F-104 and completely new aircrafts).

 

[Pioneer]

Still later there was a stretched F-111 with lift-fans in circa 1965 (extreme STOL ?).

You don't have any drawings or pictures of models of this variant of the F-111 do you??

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Skybolt]

If you can show Lockheed Model CL-802 variations (derivatives of F-104 and completely new aircrafts).

Ok, but in a new topic.

 

[circle-5]

Here's a different variant of the same McDonnell project, also with VG horizontal stabilizer. Air intakes have been moved above the the wing, to reduce hot gas recirculation (from the collection of Sir George Cox).

 

[nugo]

Hi Skybolt!

Yes you are right!
If possible, make a new topic about the Lockheed CL-802 proposals.

 

[uk 75]

This aircraft looks pretty much in the same category
as the Boeing and Republic designs with the Germans
for an Advanced Weapons system aircraft covered in
a separate thread. There seems to have been a similar
evolution from side mounted to top mounted propulsion
engines in these designs.

It is hard to see what US such a complicated aircraft
could actually have met, unless it was to fill the same
role as the Luftwaffe's nuclear rapid reaction strike role.
In which case it would presumably have replaced the
F105 Thunderchief rather than the F-111 and been
based in Germany rather than the UK.

By 1967 this requirement had been rendered obsolete
by NATO's adoption of flexible response rather than
nuclear all out response. It would be interesting to
know if McDonnell Douglas had contacts with the Germans.

UK 75

 

[sferrin]

Here's a different variant of the same McDonnell project, also with VG horizontal stabilizer. Air intakes have been moved above the the wing, to reduce hot gas recirculation (from the collection of Sir George Cox).

I don't suppose you have a version of that picture with ALL of the models visible? ??? (And none of these made it into "American Secret Fighters". Makes you wonder how much is still out there waiting to be found. )

 

[Skybolt]

You don't have any drawings or pictures of models of this variant of the F-111 do you??

I have, but see Scott post in another topic now...

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Here's a different variant of the same McDonnell project, also with VG horizontal stabilizer. Air intakes have been moved above the the wing, to reduce hot gas recirculation (from the collection of Sir George Cox).

I don't suppose you have a version of that picture with ALL of the models visible? ??? (And none of these made it into "American Secret Fighters". Makes you wonder how much is still out there waiting to be found. )

To be fair, Tony Buttler largely limits his books to proposals made in response to serious requirements, so many unbuilt projects are out of scope.

 

[hesham]

I think that it was McDonnell Model-193 V/STOL fighter of 1964.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Comparison of early and late AVS layouts

(Cradle of Aviation Museum via Leo Polaski as above)

 

[uk 75]

Overscan

Your latest photo of two early versions of the AVS is very helpful. Thanks to this site we have
images of the evolution of the project from the early version with F111 style intakes, through the
square and separated fuselage top intakes into the A400 which is much curvier.

It would be interesting to know from anyone who worked at Boeing or Fairchild Republic how they evolved the design. The US in particular seems to have used the project as a technology development platform rather than for a definite military requirement. Or was the project clearly aimed at offering an F105 replacement?

The existence of the F-111 must have made any US purchase of an AVS-A400 type aircraft unlikely, but we see on other threads how the design was also offered in modified forms for later US requirements.

Again, overscan, much appreciated. I will try and dig out the drawing I have from a US magazine in 1965 or so showing the first version in your pic, but again in a slightly different shape, more like an F-111.

UK 75

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Some basic EWR 360 info is in an Australian journal from 1964...

Aircraft

books.google.co.nz

The proposed fighter, equipped with variable geometry wings (a in the F-111), will be powered with two RB. 153 afterburning main engines and either four RB.162-34s or two RB.189 lift engines.

And Boeing in-house journal from 1965:

Boeing Magazine

books.google.co.nz

The VJ-101 single seat vtol jet fighter prototype is the outstanding product of the ewr to date. ... An even more advanced concept is being studied by ewr with Boeing participation. Boelkow has assigned a team of about [] engineers to the consortium. Boeing's interest in Boelkow dates back to 1961 when the first in the series of technical collaborations — this one dealing with helicopter design — was discussed

360 seems to be a repackaging of the VJ-101D propulsion systems in a smaller, VG design.

 

[circle-5]

Boeing-EWR 360 factory models in two different scales. Big model is from Germany, and features a single-lever mechanism for opening all four lift-jet doors. Small model is likely from Boeing, with individual door operation.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Interested in how the rear engines were vectored - nacelle doesn't look long enough to incorporate a deflector like on the VJ-101D.

Attached picture of AVS.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Thanks to Ralph (UK75), here's a nice artwork of the early AVS design.
(From AW & ST 24. July 1967, page 83)

 

[circle-5]

Interested in how the rear engines were vectored - nacelle doesn't look long enough to incorporate a deflector like on the VJ-101D.

Engraved panel lines on these models suggest the rear portion of the main engine nacelles can be vectored downward, but no effort was made to make this functional, unlike later AVS models by Republic/Fairchild/EWR. I am still hoping to find some detailed drawings (in fact, ANY drawings) depicting the Boeing-EWR 360.

 

[uk 75]

Overscan

Thanks for publishing the AVS artwork for me. The original came out of an American mag from
the 60s and was the plane that, with the TSR 2, got me hooked on What-if designs.

I would love to find out more about this iteration of the AVS as it looks so much like the F-111
and may have started life as a TFX design. The artwork sums up the bravura spirit of the 60s.

UK 75