AAC / Phalanx VTOL Projects

Hi,

the Phalanx MP-36 was a real assault transport aircraft Project,and could accommodated 36 to 40
troops,maybe it was Patriot ?.
 

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Was there ever any real design work on these things other than mockups and concept art? I mean, these were 1980s/1990s projects promising performance that we can't get even today for a fraction of the cost.
 
Bgray said:
Was there ever any real design work on these things other than mockups and concept art? I mean, these were 1980s/1990s projects promising performance that we can't get even today for a fraction of the cost.
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You are right Bgray,the MP-36 from JAWA 1985.
 

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The keyword is "promise".

Moody, the boss of Phalanx, hired himself a persistent and thoroughly annoying PR guy with an unerring eye for the less technically adept members of the media. As a quick scan of the JAWA entry will show, somehow Moody planned to achieve a 2200 lb OEW with >1200 lb in bare engine weight, not to mention hitting Mach 2.5 with an unreheated 2:1-BPR engine. (Aside from the fact that the engines would melt, at M=2.5 the bloody canopy would use up most of his airframe mass.) In one of his interviews, Moody bragged of working with both Teddy Petter and Willi Messerschmitt.

JAWA, at the time, had a policy of not judging the credibility of new-start projects. It didn't always serve them well. I had to write intemperate memos in all directions to keep the publication that I was working for Phalanx-free.
 
LowObservable, Thank you for that. It explains a lot. On a recent visit to NASA Ames I was able to meet with some of the ancient wizards of the Army Flight Dynamics Directorate in their appropriately untidy office space with mystical documents of aviation lore laying about. On top were some briefing charts on Phalanx that even a pedestrian pilot such as I am could see just did not work right. The wizards regaled me with a story of trying to explain physics and aerodynamic to Congressional staffers who had come under the spell of Mr. Moody. We moved on to more immediate concerns and I am sure some some apprentice quickly put the charts back under lock and key.
 
hesham said:
Phalanx MP-36 was a real assault transport aircraft Project,and could accommodated 36 to 40
troops,maybe it was Patriot ?.
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That illustration shows a vehicle roughly the size of the V-22, carrying almost double the Osprey's seated capacity, plus weapons, and with rotors conservatively half the size of the Osprey's and blocked by the wing over double the area of the Osprey's due to the mid-wing rather than tip position. And the V-22 rotor is already over 10% smaller in diameter than it ideally should be for vertical lift. Unless they had a special dispensation from the laws of physics I'm sceptical about the basic feasibility of the design as illustrated.

Real project and feasible aircraft are two different things.
 
From JAWA 1988.
 

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Motocar said:
Its fake or real project...? Please more information
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This can still be seen at the Russell Military Museum in Russell, Illinois, on the Wisconsin/Illinois border.
 
jstar said:
Motocar said:
Its fake or real project...? Please more information
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This can still be seen at the Russell Military Museum in Russell, Illinois, on the Wisconsin/Illinois border.quote]
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Thanks for your comment and the data provided, Motocar
 
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From World unmanned aircraft,

does anyone hear about Phalanx MP-9 mini RPV ?.
 

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A few interesting notes from a rather mind-numbing volume of Securities and Exchange Commission cases dated
October 1996 to Jan 1997. Volume 63. Pg 894 of 1348. I have included just the page that relates to this forum topic, believe me the rest of it isn't worth the download - unless you need something to get yourself to sleep..

It gives some limited details of the proposed Phalanx designs and some info about related propulsive/vertical lift systems.
I haven't found this info published anywhere else so I thought it would be of interest for fellow members and possibly "fill in some blanks".
 

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Found some more information from the same CCH SEC Docket. Volume 63 Issue 8. December 19, 1996. Pages: 898-899/1348. According to the testimony of the CEO/President the Dragon was "apparently" almost complete, except for engines when the project was suspended. There is mention of the other Phalanx/AAC projects, how far they actually went and some of the reasons why they were put on ice or canned. When this report was written the insolvent AAC company had already filed for bankruptcy.
 

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asiscan said:
Found some more information from the same CCH SEC Docket. Volume 63 Issue 8. December 19, 1996. Pages: 898-899/1348. According to the testimony of the CEO/President the Dragon was "apparently" almost complete, except for engines when the project was suspended. There is mention of the other Phalanx/AAC projects, how far they actually went and some of the reasons why they were put on ice or canned. When this report was written the insolvent AAC company had already filed for bankruptcy.
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In other words, while this may be cruel, the cynical individual would consider that they had a shiny exterior frame which was probably fibreglass, and the part that would have required something beyond even 2020 SOTA--and something that just about anyone would have realized was essentially impossible, especially when you bring up "Mach 2.5" was conveniently missing and unable to obtain.
 
Bgray said:
In other words, while this may be cruel, the cynical individual would consider that they had a shiny exterior frame which was probably fibreglass, and the part that would have required something beyond even 2020 SOTA--and something that just about anyone would have realized was essentially impossible, especially when you bring up "Mach 2.5" was conveniently missing and unable to obtain.
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I absolutely agree, although reported claims by the company of investigating supersonic versions of the Dragon family does not imply that the MP-18 was supersonic. The "apparent" difficulty in getting TFE731 biz-jet engines for the definitely subsonic prototype Dragon MP-18 would indicate a lack of money. However I "THINK" the over-enthusiastic press was thrown a "supersonic" bone by the company, and they ran for it. In the end (and either way) it was publicity exposure for the company that was hard pressed selling anything.
 
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Stargazer2006 said:
The Phalanx Dragon may have been the biggest swindle this side of the Dupont DP-2... but the company sure knew how to catch the aeronautical media's attention!

Here is an article from Flight International, 19 June 1986, a much better scan than the ones provided on their site.
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It was NOT a swindler.
 
Desertpilot said:
Hi everyone, new here and thought I could contribute a little to this thread. The above A/C is fictional, it was a fixed wing "tilt rotor" project for a movie here in LA. I'll try and get the details.

The image attaced surfaced in an auction on ebay about a year ago. The auction was for the Hind.
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Not. I worked for this company from 84 through 87 and it was anything but "fictional"
 
yasotay said:
@Stirling, @Aircraft technology lover - welcome to our band of aviation aficionados. I for one would certainly like to hear from you some of the inside story on this program.
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Indeed. The question that has been on everyone's minds for thirty-plus years: how the hell was this thing supposed to generate vertical thrust?
 
Orionblamblam said:
The question that has been on everyone's minds for thirty-plus years: how the hell was this thing supposed to generate vertical thrust?
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The thing that always bothered me as a kid, looking at the 20-year-old volume of Janes Combat Aircraft in my high school library, wasn't so much how it generated vertical thrust - as a teenage aviation enthusiast, I figured some louvres or something - as where you're supposed to hang the weapons on the MP-18.
 
Deino said:
??? I'm not sure if this one uses a similar concept to the Phalanx Corporation Dragon ... ???

Source as a "cut & paste" from two pages: AIR International Aug. 1988 p. 103 +104
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I worked on the prototype model in 1986. The rc model did work using the Augmented Nozzles in vtol. No foreward transition was attempted.
 
Welcome aboard Skydance,

do you mean Phalanx ?,we know only MP-9,MP-14,MP-15,MP-18 & MP-36,do you
know more ?.
 
Indeed Welcome Skydance! Any information on these projects would be a great addition, and much appreciated here.
 
Bgray said:
In other words, while this may be cruel, the cynical individual would consider that they had a shiny exterior frame which was probably fibreglass, and the part that would have required something beyond even 2020 SOTA--and something that just about anyone would have realized was essentially impossible, especially when you bring up "Mach 2.5" was conveniently missing and unable to obtain.
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Essentially Yes..mostly limited to a few glossy photos of fibreglass mockups. However it was a boon period for private enterprise and small "innovative" start-up companies that had potentially found the answers to a lot of things that the established aerospace companies had seemingly overlooked. Optimism at it's finest
 

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