The APKWS is now capable of shooting down drones

Now on to guided 5" zuni s, as part of modular scalable missile set.
I think the next step would be to have a fast jet launched NGSR to fit somewhere in between APKWS and AIM-9.
 
I think the next step would be to have a fast jet launched NGSR to fit somewhere in between APKWS and AIM-9.
CUDA? (I thought there was talk several years back about something even smaller to be used as self-defense against SAMs/AAMs?)
 
CUDA? (I thought there was talk several years back about something even smaller to be used as self-defense against SAMs/AAMs?)
No the Stinger replacement..Since its going into production, it would be logical to arm rotary winged and even fixed winged aircraft for better performance, guidance and resistance to CM's.
 
I cannot imagine there’s a niche for something between APKWS and sidewinder. What is maneuverable enough yet cheap enough to fit that criteria?
 
I cannot imagine there’s a niche for something between APKWS and sidewinder. What is maneuverable enough yet cheap enough to fit that criteria?

Its a combination of things. Greater range, better performance against countermeasures, active seeker and better overall performance in bad weather etc. When NGSRI goes into production it just becomes a lot more atractive to have an AL variant of it. Group 3 and 4 UAS and subsonic Cruise Missile threats are not really going anywhere..and are likely to continue to get more sophisticated.
 
No need to worry, such a version is already in extensive service in precisely that role!

Guided Zuni

Ukraine already has some AIM-9L/M Sidewinders in service but a SALH air and ground launched guided Zuni variant would still be handy as it could be produced in large numbers.
 
APKWS is like $20-25,000…that’s a hard price point to beat. Where as Stinger I think is like 200,000 which makes it maybe 1/3 the cost of AIM-9. It doesn’t seem like there’s a target that warrants something only modestly cheaper than sidewinder.
 
APKWS is like $20-25,000…that’s a hard price point to beat. Where as Stinger I think is like 200,000 which makes it maybe 1/3 the cost of AIM-9. It doesn’t seem like there’s a target that warrants something only modestly cheaper than sidewinder.

APKWS with the latest prox fuze is closer to $50K. Stinger has gotten expense for several reasons including limited production and its technology. NGSRI will be modern and is going to be cheaper to produce. While cheap group 2 and 3 drones are a priority now in the Red Sea this mission will cover higher performing cruise missiles as well. There, manned and unmanned platforms with something like a fire and forget $100-$200K NGSRI are going to offer quite a bit of an upgrade over the laser guided APKWS even considering the efforts underway to add a fire-forget seeker onto that weapon as well.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRzUuPPJrSE

 
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Are Zunis still in production in the U.S.? I cannot remember the last time I saw a picture of one on a U.S. aircraft.
 
Are Zunis still in production in the U.S.? I cannot remember the last time I saw a picture of one on a U.S. aircraft.

From the Zuni rocket wikipedia page:

Laser Guided Zuni Rocket​

The 5-inch (127 mm) Laser Guided Zuni Rocket is a precision weapon and an upgrade to the unguided Zuni rocket. The North American division of MBDA is the only manufacturer of the Laser Guided Zuni Rocket,[20] which is similar to the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System upgrade to the Hydra 70 system.[21]

It would appear that it's in limited production but no new rockets have been bought by the US DoD.
 
Alex Hollings from Sandboxx has uploaded a new video concerning the AGR-20 FALCO aka APKWS II:


The US just released the first-ever footage of its latest air-to-air weapon in action taking down a Houthi Drone over the Red Sea — and while this interceptor can already be launched by a long list of aircraft, what really makes it special is its price tag… because you could literally buy 19 of them for the price of a single Sidewinder missile.
Let's talk about the AGR-20 FALCO, also known as the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System II.
 
Here's a question - since these rockets can also be used from the ground in an air defense role, as is the case in Ukraine, if four cruise missiles were headed in your direction, how many could realistically be taken down - two? I'm just curious.
 
Here's a question - since these rockets can also be used from the ground in an air defense role, as is the case in Ukraine, if four cruise missiles were headed in your direction, how many could realistically be taken down - two? I'm just curious.
Depends.

Do you need to keep a laser on them? Or are the APKWS using IIR? How much warning do you have? How fast are the cruise missiles? How fast are the APKWS?

Fast APKWS and slow targets, with lots of warning time and IIR? I'd bet you could take down all 4.
 
Depends.

Do you need to keep a laser on them? Or are the APKWS using IIR? How much warning do you have? How fast are the cruise missiles? How fast are the APKWS?

Fast APKWS and slow targets, with lots of warning time and IIR? I'd bet you could take down all 4.
I was thinking in terms of laser guidance. Sure, cruise missiles are usually pretty slow, but I don't think that you would be able to get all four in such a scenario. Could be wrong, though.
 
Do you need to keep a laser on them? Or are the APKWS using IIR? How much warning do you have? How fast are the cruise missiles? How fast are the APKWS?

If it has an IIR seeker that is compatible with a laser-designator then perhaps the the laser-designator could be used to briefly paint each target with the missile's IIR seeker being cued by the laser-designator for LOAL.
 
I cannot imagine there’s a niche for something between APKWS and sidewinder. What is maneuverable enough yet cheap enough to fit that criteria?

Something like the Denel/Rheimmetall Cheetah

Or...you could use a better base rocket than Hydra 70. The Canadian CRV-7 has much. much higher performance....and the factory could be purchased for peanuts right now....and you could screw an APKWS guidance section in just like Hydra...the pods are also cleared on a fair few platforms like AH-64
 
The Canadian CRV-7 has much. much higher performance....and the factory could be purchased for peanuts right now....and you could screw an APKWS guidance section in just like Hydra

Canada recently donated to Ukraine its' remaining stock of ~18,000 rocket-motors (Most of the warheads have expired however).

Edit: I got my numbers wrong after checking the CRV-7 wiki article, from the article:

In September 2024 Canadian defence minister Bill Blair announced Canada would be sending 80,840 rocket motors to Ukraine over the next months, in addition to the 2,100 already shipped, along with 1,300 warheads.[4]

No doubt Ukraine can manufacture more compatible 2.75" warheads to be mounted on the donated rocket-motors, now all they need is a shitload of proximity-fuses and SALH guidance-units to turn them into budget anti-drone SAMs.
 
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I was thinking in terms of laser guidance. Sure, cruise missiles are usually pretty slow, but I don't think that you would be able to get all four in such a scenario. Could be wrong, though.
Oh, lord no. I'd be surprised if you could get 2 in that situation!

You'd need multiple laser illuminators. Which are kinda the expensive part of the whole system.



Or...you could use a better base rocket than Hydra 70. The Canadian CRV-7 has much. much higher performance....and the factory could be purchased for peanuts right now....and you could screw an APKWS guidance section in just like Hydra...the pods are also cleared on a fair few platforms like AH-64
CRV7 has a much shorter range than Hydra 70, though. Yes, it's going faster, but the rocket burns out REALLY fast and it coasts the rest of the way.
 
Oh, lord no. I'd be surprised if you could get 2 in that situation!

You'd need multiple laser illuminators. Which are kinda the expensive part of the whole system.
As with land vehicles you would target all vehicles first, ripple fire the missiles and then switch the laser designator from one target to the next. Of course with IIR APKWS you don't need to.
 
As with land vehicles you would target all vehicles first, ripple fire the missiles and then switch the laser designator from one target to the next. Of course with IIR APKWS you don't need to.
Problem is what happens to the rockets that aren't seeking at that moment.

But as you said, with the IIR system you can fire-and-forget.
 
As with land vehicles you would target all vehicles first, ripple fire the missiles and then switch the laser designator from one target to the next. Of course with IIR APKWS you don't need to.
But as you said, with the IIR system you can fire-and-forget.

What about a system where the IIR guided missiles a ripple-fired and then a laser-designator is used to ease each target sequentially to cue each one of the IIR seekers to lock to their respective target (With the laser-beam being modulated with different code specific to a target)?
 
Problem is what happens to the rockets that aren't seeking at that moment.
They would home on the missile that is targeted and assuming this is a point defence situation, the missiles would be travelling in a pack towards the target, so you would target the lead missiles first.
 
Oh, lord no. I'd be surprised if you could get 2 in that situation!

You'd need multiple laser illuminators. Which are kinda the expensive part of the whole system.
Someone get Doctor Evil on the line - we need those frickin' sharks with laser beams on their heads.

On a more serious note, I was thinking more along the lines of an ADATS-like system in terms of possibly taking down cruise missiles, so given that those interceptors have a maximum range of 10 km, if the detection range/time is sufficient, would it at least be theoretically possible to shoot down, well, two cruise missiles, or would that still be dicey, at best? Tbf, I wouldn't expect anything more than that, even in the best possible conditions.
 
On a more serious note, I was thinking more along the lines of an ADATS-like system in terms of possibly taking down cruise missiles, so given that those interceptors have a maximum range of 10 km, if the detection range/time is sufficient, would it at least be theoretically possible to shoot down, well, two cruise missiles, or would that still be dicey, at best? Tbf, I wouldn't expect anything more than that, even in the best possible conditions.
Cruise missiles are doing roughly 1km every 3 seconds, and Hydra rockets are doing ~700m/s (2km/3sec).

Shoot-look-shoot means you want to detect the missiles so that the first interception happens at 10km. That's 15sec flight time for the Hydras, so detection of incoming and APKWS launch at 15km. 15sec later, boom at 10km. Second APKWS is launched at 10km, ~10sec flight time for second shot. Boom at ~6km. 3rd APKWS is launched at ~6km, and intercepts its cruise missile target in ~6sec at about 4km. Assuming there are more missiles, you might even be able to get a 4th intercept about 3 seconds after launch at ~2km range. By that time you'd better be throwing AAA at the missiles.

Launch more APKWS simultaneously to get your P(k) up high enough.

Okay, I guess you can get a 3rd cruise missile in that, and maybe a 4th. HOWEVER, I am ignoring "did we kill it" analysis time, laser slew time, and APKWS lock-on time in that analysis.
 
Also point defenses are usually surrounding the area protected to extend coverage range, depending on their cost.
 
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Launch more APKWS simultaneously to get your P(k) up high enough.

Okay, I guess you can get a 3rd cruise missile in that, and maybe a 4th. HOWEVER, I am ignoring "did we kill it" analysis time, laser slew time, and APKWS lock-on time in that analysis.
It's still quite useful & cheap addition; basically as long as target required less than 8 AGR-20, it's more mass-efficient than a "proper" AAM.
 
Could it down an attack helo? There's an interesting use.

I have no doubt that it could especially if it's an ambush, we could see more Ka-52 Hokum Bs being shot down in the near future (Isn't Russia running low on them?).
 

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