I doubt it would be exported at all. Too costly & too secret. Any customer woukd likely prefer either a modified F-35, or a drone fighter.
And if it is neither too costly nor too secret?

Bird of Pray trick ultimately was in production techniques, here it's probably in achieving something similar at fighter production scale.

This isn't something easily or even meaningfully reverse-engineerable by smaller US partners.
 
Boeing would really like the F-47 to be exported to at least friendly countries because that is where they make the most money, but I do not know how the next president will see it after the next election in 2028 post Trump that will be something that will have to be discussed with the USAF at that time.
 
Boeing would really like the F-47 to be exported to at least friendly countries because that is where they make the most money,...
Most definitely, but who'd want a degraded version? The 100% domestic version will need to be very, very good for the 90% export version to fly off the shelves F-16-style. Older readers will recall how the 90% F-16s sold.

Did the Saudis ever get FAST packs for their F-15s? Or did they buy Tornado instead?

Anyway, very much looking forward to seeing it, avec canards at Le Salon in Juin.

Chris
 
While the original Boeing had sold no fighter, McD, whose board has taken over the majority after these two merged
Boeing alumni ran the merged company from '97 until Harry Stonecipher, ex McD, took over in '03, after the Darleen Druyun debacle; after his forced retirement in '05 it was James McNerney, ex GE and 3M; after which it was Muilenberg, who was a Boeing lifer; followed by Calhoun, ex GE and finance; and now Ortberg, ex Rockwell. So a McD alumni has only run the merged company for 2-3 years out of 27.

TLDR: I think the main McD impact has been below the board level.
 
Giving them an open door out of their current financial troubles?
Mainly because they risk to lose expertise and knowledge otherwise. Also because Northrop-Grumman was not interested, and Lockheed-Martin have its hands full with F-35 (which would be the focus of all its efforts for several decades anyway).
 
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We're talking about the lack of vertical tails as a necessary RCS reduction (though decreasing longitudinal stability), but the degree of wing dihedral (to increase longitudinal stability?) is presumably going to add to the exposed vertical surface area, increasing RCS.

Is the design quite literally chasing it's own (missing) tail?

(We could call it Ourobouros, or Jormundgandr)
 
250321_dvids_ngad_rendering_8928540-scaled-jpg.763775
I'm presuming the grey arc at the top of the canopy is actually the tip of a ventral inlet.
 
Twz already went towards explaining everything through disinformation.
Breaking news, oval office directly deceives citizens!
Between the spelling & grammar mistakes (my personal favorite was literally in the first sentence of one of their "articles". Sad!), their penchant for including "information" that cannot be independently confirmed/verified, & the fact that they have apparently plagiarized/stolen writing from people in the past (one guy on Twitter evidently had a lovely such "experience" with them), it's readily apparent that the only difference between these dudes & TMZ is a single letter, at best.

On another front, I wonder as to how Russia/Sukhoi is handling this announcement. My guess would probably be something like this -

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOC_ig7ezp8
 
"The F-47 designation was chosen in consultation with @secdef"

'in consultation with' is wonderfully ambiguous, potentially covering anything from 'I told SecDef it would be a good idea," to "SecDef ordered me in spite of my protests".
 
Would not surprise me Josh_TN, if the F-47 had two crew, and that second crew member was to command CCAs as we have been discussing on this thread in the past.
Perhaps the plane will mostly fly itself, and a solo pilot will be free to focus on commanding CCAs as well as coordinating the mission in general. AI pilots are already dogfighting. Maneuvering the plane should be one of the more straightforward tasks that can be offloaded to a computer, compared to the decision-making process during a mission. If the F-47 has novel control surfaces, it will already have to be fly-by-wire to an extreme degree.
 
In regards to the canards relation to RCS, couple things to note:

1) Not all canards are the same

2) Certain canards have RCS penalty but that doesn't mean no engineering solution(s) exist to compensate or reduce the RCS penalty to meet certain RCS requirements from customer. This applies to the V tail vs conventional tail layout of yf-23 vs yf-22. And this applies to the j-20 and the Boeing proposal. So yes, canards can potentially have RCS penalty but an aircraft with canards can deft be stealthy.

Let's consider even further. What are some of the canard designs that potentially have RCS penalty:

1) frontal gap where the wing root meets the body.
2) canards have dihedral angle while wings are horizontal to the ground.

We see that f-47 canards 1) completely blend, at least frontal view, to the body and do not expose any gap and 2) both canards and wings have same dihedral angle, bringing them in complete surface orientation alignment. This is very akin to characteristic of the christmas tree fighter design from northrop, which is considered the stealthiest among the 3 studies that eventually led to the yf-23 by eliminating an additional RCS spike angle created by the plane's forebody.

Not that I substantively disagree with any of this, but surely you'll have to concede that this sort of nuance is exactly what was singularly lacking in the arguments of American contributors in past "discussions" on the subject of canards and low observability. Indeed attempts at such from other quarters were generally met with derision, so it still represents a change of tack and it seems entirely fair to call that out, especially with some classy humour thrown in (as has been the case here) :)
 
I doubt it would be exported at all. Too costly & too secret. Any customer woukd likely prefer either a modified F-35, or a drone fighter.
If F-35 was exportable, I don't see why F-47 won't be.
The F-47 is likely to offer more range and payload, which itself is a huge factor as I'm sure Israel and Australia would love an F-35 with double the payload and range, but it'd be essentially a brand new aircraft.
 
Re: Canards.

What is the main functionality of canards and what are their pros and cons?

EDIT: In the context of stealth aircraft. I'm not looking for a Wikipedia quote.
 
Thank you JoshTN, what you are showcasing is a difference in approach to national defense.

The DOD is literally forced to focus on all of the major COCOMs around the world and doing what's necessary to provide a deterrent force to maintain superiority. China & Russia focus more on domestic defense. The cost/benefit ratio bends in favor of national defense due to the expected threat environment being less broad & more predictable.

I think it's very necessary to look through the lens of the RF, PLA, & DOD when comparing strategic objectives in air dominance going into the future. Those emphasizing domestic security will have a leg up because space based sensors can detect airborne aircraft and feed that into defense networks...

China and Russia use very different systems of government than the U.S. and have very different military priorities. But mainly my point is that Russia has far less resources than the PRC or U.S. and really is not in a position to respond. They have lots of other higher priorities and about 1/20th the resources of either of the other two.
 
Most definitely, but who'd want a degraded version? The 100% domestic version will need to be very, very good for the 90% export version to fly off the shelves F-16-style. Older readers will recall how the 90% F-16s sold.
If anything, recent F-16 and F-15 export sales (F-16V/Block 70, F-15SA/QA) have been of aircraft above USAF standard, not below. F-35 sales are at the USAF standard.
 
F-35 sales are at the USAF standard.
Were USAF standard (probably for the most part). Now, the DOD is buying a different radar to what the export / partner customers are paying for. This is not just typical of US DOD. Other countries probably do hold back some sovereign capability, whether that is publicly shared (by head of state no less) or not is a different matter. Russians have export variants / configurations and I'm sure so do Europeans. Unless one strips down and evaluates domestic variant right down to code, there is no way to tell for sure.
 
I think that the USAF would have to learn from the mastake that was stopping the F-22 from being exported that hurt Lockheed badly and I don't think that they have recovered from it and also stopping the production run early did not help matters either.
 
Eagle II. (No "Super", "King" or other nonsense.)

Eagle II is already taken for the F-15EX.

I would love to see Voodoo II, which we have already seen as a Boeing internal codename. It's just too obvious a match not to consider.

I think that the USAF would have to learn from the mastake that was stopping the F-22 from being exported that hurt Lockheed badly and I don't think that they have recovered from it and also stopping the production run early did not help matters either.

That wasn't entirely the Air Force's decision. There is actually a law specifically prohibiting the export of the F-22. The USAF probably would have been happy selling to a couple of specific countries (like Israel) especially if it meant getting more for the USAF as well through cost reductions.
 
Eagle II is already taken for the F-15EX.

I would love to see Voodoo II, which we have already seen as a Boeing internal codename. It's just too obvious a match not to consider.



That wasn't entirely the Air Force's decision. There is actually a law specifically prohibiting the export of the F-22. The USAF probably would have been happy selling to a couple of specific countries (like Israel) especially if it meant getting more for the USAF as well through cost reductions.
A shame there is already a Phantom II. It would fit perfect with stealth but Phantom III would be too weird. "VooDoo II" would likely be politically unacceptable as would "Demon II".
 
I would be very surprised if the F-47 `Trumpinator' is exported to other countries as they would not trust other countries in case information fell into the wrong hands seeing as it is a super duper 6th generation stealth fighter.

As all we have at the moment is a head on, fuzzy smoking picture of the F-47 there is very little to dissect about it.
 
It seems obvious that NGAP will be part of NGAD. I believe there were some questions about this recently. Hopefully F/A-XX utilizes NGAP as well, as it would be a long time before any successor to F/A-XX would be able to take advantage of variable cycle engines and the range boosts that they provide, something the navy desperately needs.
F/A-XX will be using an F110 derivative with variable-cycle features.
The AETP/NGAP 3-stream idea was eliminated a while ago -- cost was reason #2. Can't say what #1 is.
 
Politics aside, I would love to keep the focus on what we can see (as limited as it is). I used some rudimentary scaling metrics based on the nose wheel, the front chine itself is about 7 feet wide and the observable wingspan (I think they're hiding the tips) is roughly 25 feet. The wing sweep is roughly 42-48 degrees of sweep back. Canopy width at rear is 4.25, front is 3.6. Height is 2.74. Mind you these are extremely rough guesses. I used the nose wheel diameter of the F15 at 13 inches to get this. I have a good amount of info on Boeings patent efforts but I didn't see this coming at all. Trying to design a working render is tough missing the whole back of the bird.
 
The demonstrator program (Air Dominance Initiative and Aerospace Innovation Initiative) built two X-planes, with (probably) two vehicles each. One X-plane for the Air Force, and one for the Navy.

The best information I have been able to obtain indicates that Lockheed built the Air Force demonstrators, and Boeing the Navy demonstrators. I have not found that Northrop Grumman built demonstrators under this program using DoD funding (and I should have). It's possible that they did so using their own money, some other arrangement or program, or that I am incorrect. But there is considerable evidence that only Lockheed and Boeing built (and flew) the demonstrators.
Thanks for sharing. Interestingly, the POTUS and CSAF mentioned 5 years worth of experimental flight totaling hundreds of hours in support of the program leading up to this stage. From a flight hour, and time perspective that is more than most if not all X plane programs. Which then leads to an interesting question of whether they build something after the initial X planes as they marched towards the RFP stage of the program in 2023. The last three of these 'five years' basically.
 
Boeing alumni ran the merged company from '97 until Harry Stonecipher, ex McD, took over in '03, after the Darleen Druyun debacle; after his forced retirement in '05 it was James McNerney, ex GE and 3M; after which it was Muilenberg, who was a Boeing lifer; followed by Calhoun, ex GE and finance; and now Ortberg, ex Rockwell. So a McD alumni has only run the merged company for 2-3 years out of 27.

TLDR: I think the main McD impact has been below the board level.
TBH I'm getting tired of people going "But McD impact" either way, good or bad.

It's been DECADES since the takeover. Right now any good or bad decisions have more to do with "Line go up" for goldfish minded shareholders than any leftover bullshit from three decades ago.
 
Not that I substantively disagree with any of this, but surely you'll have to concede that this sort of nuance is exactly what was singularly lacking in the arguments of American contributors in past "discussions" on the subject of canards and low observability. Indeed attempts at such from other quarters were generally met with derision, so it still represents a change of tack and it seems entirely fair to call that out, especially with some classy humour thrown in (as has been the case here) :)
Just to add to the other relevant popular criticisms of The Su-57 & J-20 - where is The IRST, & what hath become of EOTS? Imagine if this thing has even the slightest "tunnel" underneath. Good luck trying to polish that turd.
 
What are the chances of the canard being a fixed diamond shape? And… having a wing with dihedral to increase the stability lost by not having vertical tails?

What purpose would a fixed canard serve?

Alternatively, is it positive to simply make a canard out of a composite transparent to radar, or is no practical material sufficiently structurally strong enough to withstand the aerodynamic stress in all flight regimes?
 
What purpose would a fixed canard serve?

Alternatively, is it positive to simply make a canard out of a composite transparent to radar, or is no practical material sufficiently structurally strong enough to withstand the aerodynamic stress in all flight regimes?
Maybe we should ask if aeroelastic materials are at play here and as far as hinge or rotation gaps, the canopy doesn't seem to have a seam line either. Maybe it bends or changes camber based on flight envelope.
 
The demonstrator program (Air Dominance Initiative and Aerospace Innovation Initiative) built two X-planes, with (probably) two vehicles each. One X-plane for the Air Force, and one for the Navy.

The best information I have been able to obtain indicates that Lockheed built the Air Force demonstrators, and Boeing the Navy demonstrators. I have not found that Northrop Grumman built demonstrators under this program using DoD funding (and I should have). It's possible that they did so using their own money, some other arrangement or program, or that I am incorrect. But there is considerable evidence that only Lockheed and Boeing built (and flew) the demonstrators.
Not sure I understand you. Are you talking about NGAD demonstrators here? Ones that flew for last five years?
And if so, are you suggesting that Boeing 's demo plane, which you say was made for navy's program, has now won the USAFs program as the F-47?
Please correct my interpretation.

Unrelated, on the matter of the single wheel front landing gear, do you find some detail interesting about it (what?) or is the sole fact the FLG has a single wheel interesting in itself due to weights it indicates?
 

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