Chinese VTOL aircraft

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Joebob748

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Is anyone aware of any projects by China to create a VTOL aircraft to operate off of their helicopter carriers?
 
Joebob748 said:
Is anyone aware of any projects by China to create a VTOL aircraft to operate off of their helicopter carriers?
Click to expand...

From MiG-19 with lift fans to J-18: China’s VTOL fighter jet problem - AeroTime

China’s ambition to become a global power rests on rivaling the United States – as well as the entire NATO – in every aspect of its military strength. Naval aviation is an important part of that, as it has both practical application and the symbolic power, allowing for a projection of military...
www.aerotime.aero

China developing new STOVL fighter for Navy, similar to America's F 35B aircraft

A detailed article on the PLA website on Wednesday says that Chinas aviation industry is working on a new short takeoff and vertical landing.
economictimes.indiatimes.com
 
Joebob748 said:
Is anyone aware of any projects by China to create a VTOL aircraft to operate off of their helicopter carriers?
Click to expand...

There are lots of VTOL drones but I am not aware of any manned aircraft even in prototype form.
 
F.L. said:
Joebob748 said:
Is anyone aware of any projects by China to create a VTOL aircraft to operate off of their helicopter carriers?
Click to expand...

China developing new STOVL fighter for Navy, similar to America's F 35B aircraft

A detailed article on the PLA website on Wednesday says that Chinas aviation industry is working on a new short takeoff and vertical landing.
economictimes.indiatimes.com
Click to expand...
$10k says they rip off the shaft-driven lift fan if this is even real.
 
VSTOL fighters are one of the most difficult aircraft to build, look at what happened to the Harrier programme early on in its development with all the crashes. Same with the Russians with the Yak-38 and Yak-41, it will be highly interesting to see what the Chinese come up with for their VSTOL fighter.
 
The sixth-generation fighter can have a thrust-to-weight ratio with a maximum take-off weight of 1.25, which is enough for vertical takeoff in any weather. It's stupid to refuse such an opportunity
 
paralay said:
The sixth-generation fighter can have a thrust-to-weight ratio with a maximum take-off weight of 1.25, which is enough for vertical takeoff in any weather. It's stupid to refuse such an opportunity
Click to expand...
So why can't a Su-57 do a vertical takeoff? Guess it's more complicated than thrust to weight, eh? :rolleyes:
 
Hello,

There were once upon a time some artist views spread on internet, with the name J-18, that were a F-35 clone with canards.

1684855109258.png

1684855160910.png

However, I would give it a very limited reliability !

Radium
 
sferrin said:
So why can't a Su-57 do a vertical takeoff? Guess it's more complicated than thrust to weight, eh? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
The thrust-to-weight ratio of the Su-57 with a maximum take-off weight of 1 (for the second stage engine).The main problem of creating VTOL is the inertia of thinking
 
Radium said:
Hello,

There were once upon a time some artist views spread on internet, with the name J-18, that were a F-35 clone with canards.

View attachment 700109

View attachment 700110

However, I would give it a very limited reliability !

Radium
Click to expand...
You can tell it's old because they copied the X-35 doors over the lift fan. (Then again, it's got the newer F-35 inlet lip so maybe they just were trying not to be so obvious.)
 
sferrin said:
Radium said:
Hello,

There were once upon a time some artist views spread on internet, with the name J-18, that were a F-35 clone with canards.

View attachment 700109

View attachment 700110

However, I would give it a very limited reliability !

Radium
Click to expand...
You can tell it's old because they copied the X-35 doors over the lift fan. (Then again, it's got the newer F-35 inlet lip so maybe they just were trying not to be so obvious.)
Click to expand...

Why such answer ? I never said old, but once upon a time, because I saw this some times ago, as far as I remember.

Global design is very close to F-35B with canards (both general looking and VTOL concept), I didn't said more than that.

Radium
 
Radium said:
sferrin said:
Radium said:
Hello,

There were once upon a time some artist views spread on internet, with the name J-18, that were a F-35 clone with canards.

View attachment 700109

View attachment 700110

However, I would give it a very limited reliability !

Radium
Click to expand...
You can tell it's old because they copied the X-35 doors over the lift fan. (Then again, it's got the newer F-35 inlet lip so maybe they just were trying not to be so obvious.)
Click to expand...

Why such answer ? I never said old, but once upon a time, because I saw this some times ago, as far as I remember.

Global design is very close to F-35B with canards (both general looking and VTOL concept), I didn't said more than that.

Radium
Click to expand...
I never said anything about you. I was just commenting on the design.
 
sferrin said:
Radium said:
sferrin said:
Radium said:
Hello,

There were once upon a time some artist views spread on internet, with the name J-18, that were a F-35 clone with canards.

View attachment 700109

View attachment 700110

However, I would give it a very limited reliability !

Radium
Click to expand...
You can tell it's old because they copied the X-35 doors over the lift fan. (Then again, it's got the newer F-35 inlet lip so maybe they just were trying not to be so obvious.)
Click to expand...

Why such answer ? I never said old, but once upon a time, because I saw this some times ago, as far as I remember.

Global design is very close to F-35B with canards (both general looking and VTOL concept), I didn't said more than that.

Radium
Click to expand...
I never said anything about you. I was just commenting on the design.
Click to expand...
Sorry for my misunderstood
 
Hello,

while crawding on chinese internet, I found some data :

1684874952769.png

I am not sure of the exact source of this document. My understanding of chinese is highly limited, but from my Japanese skills, there is three interesting stuff :

RCS5 雷达 : RCS5 Radar (no idea of what does it means exactly)
XJ-99升力发动机 : XJ-99 lift engine.

For XJ-99 lift engine, I did some researches, and what is funny is that they refer to Allison/Rolls-Royce XJ99 :

1684876688159.png

That have some direct link with... Mirage IIIV Rb.162 !

So, I feel suspicious that China would use such old engine, and suspicious about the source of the document. Or maybe they considered a copy ? Mixing an AL-31 with an Allison Engine wouldn't be impossible but highly exotic !

I know @Archibald is an expert of these engines and started a nice thread here :


What do you think ?

Radium
 
Radium said:
Hello,

while crawding on chinese internet, I found some data :

View attachment 700163

I am not sure of the exact source of this document. My understanding of chinese is highly limited, but from my Japanese skills, there is three interesting stuff :

RCS5 雷达 : RCS5 Radar (no idea of what does it means exactly)
XJ-99升力发动机 : XJ-99 lift engine.

For XJ-99 lift engine, I did some researches, and what is funny is that they refer to Allison/Rolls-Royce XJ99 :

View attachment 700164

That have some direct link with... Mirage IIIV Rb.162 !

So, I feel suspicious that China would use such old engine, and suspicious about the source of the document. Or maybe they considered a copy ? Mixing an AL-31 with an Allison Engine wouldn't be impossible but highly exotic !

I know @Archibald is an expert of these engines and started a nice thread here :


What do you think ?

Radium
Click to expand...

As with much of Chinese mil internet, this is a work of fiction. It's fan-created images grabbing a bunch of real things and dropping them into an imaginary design.
 
F.L. said:
Joebob748 said:
Is anyone aware of any projects by China to create a VTOL aircraft to operate off of their helicopter carriers?
Click to expand...

From MiG-19 with lift fans to J-18: China’s VTOL fighter jet problem - AeroTime

China’s ambition to become a global power rests on rivaling the United States – as well as the entire NATO – in every aspect of its military strength. Naval aviation is an important part of that, as it has both practical application and the symbolic power, allowing for a projection of military...
www.aerotime.aero

China developing new STOVL fighter for Navy, similar to America's F 35B aircraft

A detailed article on the PLA website on Wednesday says that Chinas aviation industry is working on a new short takeoff and vertical landing.
economictimes.indiatimes.com
Click to expand...


Sorry to say so, but none of these „source“ is reliable … in fact IMO both are just laughable
 
Deino said:
Radium said:
Hello,

There were once upon a time some artist views spread on internet, with the name J-18, that were a F-35 clone with canards.

View attachment 700109

View attachment 700110

However, I would give it a very limited reliability !

Radium
Click to expand...


All fake and fan made! … do we really need to discuss this here?
Click to expand...

No ! As I mentioned before I had big doubts about the reliability of these sources. I guess China does not have any serious plan for a VTOL fighter for now…. Or anything public yet !
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I could swear I've seen that configuration before. (The two horizontal engines, not the airplane around it.)
 
But with two side air intakes instead of the single nose air intake like the Su-75.
 
^ thanks for that link.

I was having some trouble understanding the first figure that's been posted before.
I initially thought it was a view from the bottom/belly, and that was the chin intake
but the tail end looked like it was drawn showing the top view

the second figure in your link confirmed it was indeed a chin intake.
although interesting choice for side intakes for the other engine.

in any case, a question would be.. does the PRC really have a need for a VTOL aircraft?
they've already gone full in STOBAR and CATOBAR.
 
helmutkohl said:
^ thanks for that link.

I was having some trouble understanding the first figure that's been posted before.
I initially thought it was a view from the bottom/belly, and that was the chin intake
but the tail end looked like it was drawn showing the top view

the second figure in your link confirmed it was indeed a chin intake.
although interesting choice for side intakes for the other engine.

in any case, a question would be.. does the PRC really have a need for a VTOL aircraft?
they've already gone full in STOBAR and CATOBAR.
Click to expand...
There is a lot of speculation around the future Type 076 having EMALS. It is highly likely to be a lot easier than developing a stealth VTOL aircraft from scratch, therefore I expect it to operate as a light aircraft carrier with UAVs and probably half a dozen J-35s stationed on it.
 
helmutkohl said:
in any case, a question would be.. does the PRC really have a need for a VTOL aircraft?
they've already gone full in STOBAR and CATOBAR.
Click to expand...
VTOL a/c are, first and foremost, not carrier aircraft, but restricted/austere strip ones.
Light carrier a/c thing becomes more popular nowadays(courtesy of F-35B), though - but first role is still here.
 
Quite right Ainen, that was what the Harrier was mainly used for in it's early years, I could see the PLAN doing the same thing.
 
GTX said:
A patent does not make a prototype...a prototype does not make an operational platform...
Click to expand...
Usually, we consider :

Concept > Patent > Technological demonstrator > Prototype > Pre-IOC aircraft > Post IOC aircraft > Post IOC updates > Mid life update > Post Mid life updates > End of life updates > Decommisionning.

Some phases may of course be skipped if not applicable.

Radium
 
The point is that people getting worked up over a patent is premature.
 
Wow!!! Interesting find Ainen. It will be highly interesting to watch to see how this new fighter evolves over time before it is ready for the prototype stage.
 
Ainen said:
View: https://twitter.com/louischeung_hk/status/1664653653947609090


Chinese 3d graphics is an old meme, but here it helps visualize the patent drawings.
Overall - interesting sorta "1.5"-engined concept, merging Harrier, F-35, and Yak-38 approaches. In both advantages and disadvantages.
Click to expand...

Could you please post these images directly here since I’m blocked by that guy
 


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