Soviet Naval Gun Projects

[Tzoli]

I wish to collect, gather and discuss (But more importantly collect) the various naval gun projects the Soviet Union created, abandoned or wished to create.
Here I list them what I've gathered so far according to type, feel free to comment, provide info and I will edit them in.

Capital ship calibre guns: 300mm+
530mm Cannon - proposed for the TTZ BB study of 1936 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 2-gun turret
500mm Cannon - proposed for the TTZ BB study of 1936 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
460mm Cannon - proposed for the NIVK and TTZ BB studies of 1936 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
457mm/55 Cannon (Pattern 1951?) - proposed for the post war Project 45 BB studies 1950/51 Shell: 1.580kg, MV: 850m/s or shell: 1.720kg, MV: 820m/s
Turrets: 2-gun and 3-gun turrets
457mm Cannon - proposed for the TTZ BB studies of 1936 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
456mm Cannon - proposed for the NIVK BB studies of 1936 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
450mm Cannon - proposed for the TSKB-1 BB studies of 1935 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3- and 4-gun turret
406mm Cannon - proposed for the post war Project 45 BB studies 1950/51 (most likely no serious work was done) Shell: 1.115kg, MV: 900m/s or Shell: 1.225kg, MV: 762m/s
Turrets: 2- and 3-gun Turrets
406mm/50 B-37 Pattern 1937 - intended for TSKB-1, TTZ, KB-4 BB designs of 1936-40 including the Sovetsky Soyuz class. Shell: 1.108kg, MV: 830m/s
Turrets: MK-1 3-gun Turret
400mm Cannon - proposed for the TSKB-1 BB studies of 1935 and TTZ studies of 1936 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 4-gun turret
356mm/54 Cannon (Pattern 1938?)- proposed for the TTZ BB studies of 1937, Project 64, built as a railway cannon TP-1 Shell: 750kg, MV: 870m/s
Turrets: 3-gun turret
305mm/62 SM-33 Pattern 1948 - intended for post war BC designs like the Stalingrad class 1949/51. Shell: 467kg, MV: 950m/s
Turrets: CM-31 3-gun turret
305mm/55 B-50 Pattern 1940 - intended for BB and BC designs 1936-37 like the Kornshtadt class. Shell: 470kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: MK-15 3-gun turret
305mm/55 B-36 Pattern 1936 - intended for TSKB-1, TTZ, KB-4, KB-9 BB designs 1936-37 like Project 25. Shell: 470,9kg, MV: 860m/s
Turrets: MK-2 3-gun turret

Cruiser calibre guns: 135-300mm
254mm/55 Pattern 1937 - intended for the Project 22 heavy/large cruiser and Project 69 / Kronshtadt preliminary design of 1935/38 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
250mm gun - intended for the TSKB-1 heavy/large cruiser design of 1935/36 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
240mm/60 Pattern 1935 - intended for the Project X design of 1935 Shell: 235kg, MV: 940m/s
Turrets: 3-gun turret
220mm/65 SM-40 Pattern 1953 - intended for post war CA and BB designs 1949-54. Shell: 176kg, MV: 985m/s
Turrets: SM-6 Triple turret, 4-gun turret
220mm gun - intended for the Project 82 Stalingrad class (1944 and 47 design) (likely developed into the SM-40 Pattern 1953 gun)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
210mm gun - intended for the Project 82 Stalingrad class (1942 design) (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret
180mm/60 CM-48 Pattern 1955 - intended for post war CA and BB designs 1949-55. Shell: 97,5kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: 4-gun turret
180mm/56 Pattern 1933 - re-lined 203mm/50 guns for coastal defence. Shell: 97,5kg shell, MV: 920m/s
Turrets: MB-2-180 twin turret, MO-8-180 and MO-1-180 single open mounts
180mm/57 B-27 / B-1-P Pattern 1932 - guns for the Kirov class. Shell: 97,5kg, MV: 920m/s
Turrets: MK-3-180 triple turret
180mm/60 B-1-K Pattern 1931 - re-lined 203mm/50 guns for Krasny Kavkaz. Shell: 97,5kg, MV: 920m/s
Turrets: MK-1-180 single turret
155mm Gun - proposed for the TSKB-1 BB designs of 1936 (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 2-gun turret
152mm/57 B-38 Pattern 1938 - guns for the Chapayev, Sverdlov classes and 1930's-40's BB,BC and CL designs Shell: 55kg, MV: 950m/s
Turrets: MK-4, MK-17 twin, Mk-5, MK-5bis, MK-9 triple turrets,
152mm Gun - likely /50 gun proposed for the KB-4 Project 21 BB of 1936 (Soviet Nelson) (most likely no serious work was done)
Turrets: 3-gun turret

Destroyer calibre guns: 75-135mm
130mm/70 ZIF-94 / A-217 / AK-130 (Pattern 1980?) - used on the larger 1980's cold war vessels Shell: 33,4kg, MV: 850m/s
Turrets: B-13 single, B-28, B-2LM, B-2LMT twin turrets
130mm/58 SM-2-1 Pattern 1957 - used on the early cold war vessels Shell: 33,4kg, MV: 950m/s
Turrets: SM-2-1 twin turret, SM-62 twin? mounting
130mm/55 B-13U Pattern 1941 - improved B-13 gun intended as a dual purpose weapon for the late war cruiser and destroyer design like the MK, Shell: 33,4kg
Turrets: B-2-U twin turret
130mm/55 B-13 Pattern 1936 - widely used destroyer gun, Shell: 33,4kg, MV: 870m/s
Turrets: B-13, B-13-2 single, B-2LM, B-2LMT, B-28 twin mounts
102mm/45 B-18 Pattern 1934 - river monitor/gunboat gun, Shell: 17,5kg, MV: 755m/s
Turrets: MK-2-4 twin mount
102mm/45 B-2 Pattern 1930 - early submarine gun, Shell: 17,5kg, MV: 755m/s
Turrets: B-2 single wet mount
100mm/70 AK-190-01 (Pattern 2002?) - modernized AK-190 gun, entered service in 2008 Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 880m/s
Turrets: single turret
100mm/70 AK-190 (Pattern 1991?) - late cold war early modern era development, entered service in 1997 Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 880m/s
Turrets: AK-190 single turret
100mm/70 ZIF-91 / A-214 / AK-100 (Pattern 1967?) - mid cold war standard ship gun Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 880m/s
Turrets: AK-100 single turret
100mm gun - proposed for the Project 56 and 57 destroyers and Project 58bis and 63 cruisers of 1956/58 (No other data available)
Turrets: SM-62 twin? mounting
100mm/70 CM-5 Pattern 1947 - post war AA gun for the Chapayev and Sverdlov classes Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 1000m/s
Turrets: CM-5, CM-5-1, CM-5-1bis, SM-39 twin, BL-127 quad turrets
100mm/56 B-34U Pattern 1941 - improved B-34 gun only produced after the war Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: B-34-U, B-34-USM, B-34-USM-1, B-34-USMA, B-34-USMA-1 single turrets
100mm/56 B-34 Pattern 1940 - standard WW2 AA gun: 15,6kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: B-34 single M3-14, M3-16 twin turrets
100mm/56 B-24BM Pattern 1939 - guns for small combatants Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 895m/s
Turrets: B-24BM single mount
100mm/51 B-24-IIc Pattern 1937 - submarine gun Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 872m/s
Turrets: B-24-IIc single wet? mount
100mm/51 B-24 Pattern 1936 - submarine gun Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 872m/s
Turrets: B-24, B-24PL wet mounts
100mm/47 B-14 Pattern 1935 - failed prototype B-34 gun Shell: 15,6kg, MV: 800m/s
85mm/52 90-K (Pattern 1941) - mid war modified naval version of the Pattern 1939 gun Shell: 9,24kg, MV: 792m/s
Turrets: 90-K, MK-85 single, 92-K twin mount
85mm/52 90-K (Pattern 1939) - Army 85mm gun in naval mounting Shell: 9,24kg, MV: 792m/s
Turrets: 34-K single mount
76mm/60 AK-176 (Pattern 1977?) cold war development used on many ships Shell: 5,9kg, MV: 980m/s
Turrets: AK-176 single turret
76mm/59 AK-726 (Pattern 1954?) - early cold war development used on many ships Shell: 5,9kg, MV: 980m/s
Turrets: AK-726 twin turret
76mm/55 34-K Pattern 1935 - modified Army 76mm gun Shell: 6,6kg, MV: 813m/s
Turrets: 34-K single, 39-K, 81-K twin mount
76mm/30 8-K Pattern 1915 - WW1 era AA gun Shell: 5,5kg, MV: 640m/s
Turrets: single mount
76mm/30 30-K Pattern 1914 - Modified gun or different Soviet designation Shell: 6,5kg, MV: 588m/s
Turrets: single mount

Light guns: 25-75mm
57mm/75 A-220M (Pattern 2009?) Modernized/Modified A-220 on modern ships Shell: 2,8kg, MV: 1020m/s
Turrets: single turret
57mm/75 A-220 (Pattern 2001?) post war development used on modern ships Shell: 2,8kg, MV: 1020m/s
Turrets: single turret
57mm/75 ZIF-72 / AK-725 (Pattern 1958?) early-mid cold war development used on many ships Shell: 2,8kg, MV: 1020m/s
Turrets: AK-725 twin turret
57mm/81 ZIF-75 (Pattern 1956?) - early cold war standard AA gun Shell: 2,8kg, MV: 1020m/s
Turrets: ZIF-75 quad mount
57mm/81 ZIF-71 (Pattern 1954?) - early cold war standard AA gun Shell: 2,8kg, MV: 1020m/s
Turrets: ZIF-71 single mount
57mm/79 ZIF-31 (Pattern 1954?) - early cold war standard AA gun Shell: 2,8kg, MV: 1020m/s
Turrets: ZIF-31, ZIF-31B, ZIF-31BS, ZIF-31S twin mounts
57mm/79 SM-24-ZIF (Pattern 1951?) - post war submarine AA gun Shell: 2,8kg, MV: 1020m/s
Turrets: SM-24-ZIF, SM-24-ZIF1 wet twin mounts
45mm/78 SM-7 (Patter 1946M) - Post war AA gun used on many ships Shell: 1,41kg, MV: 1080m/s
Turrets: SM-21-ZIF single, SM-21-ZIF1, ZIF-68 quad mounts
45mm/68 21-KM - Army gun used for AA role Shell: 1,41kg, MV: 835m/s
Turrets: 21-KM single mount
45mm/46 21-K - Army gun used for AA role Shell: 1,41kg, MV: 760m/s
Turrets: 21-K, 40-K single, 41-K twin mount
37mm/67 70-K - Navalized army 61-K gun Shell: 0,775kg, MV: 908m/s
Turrets: 70-K single, 66-K, V-11, V-11M, V-47M twin, 46-K quad mount
30mm/68 AO-18KD / AK-630 (Pattern 2012?) modified AO-18K CIWS for modern ships Shell: 0,39kg, MV: 960m/s
Turrets: Ak-630 Palma / Palash twin(6 barrel) CIWS-Missile turret
30mm/68 AO-18K? / AK-630 (Pattern 2010?) modified/improved AO-18 CIWS for modern ships Shell: 0,39kg, MV: 960m/s
Turrets: AK-630 Kashtan-M twin(6 barrel) CIWS-Missile turret
30mm/68 AO-18K? AK-630 (Pattern 1989?) Modified for twin gun-missile turrets Shell: 0,39kg, MV: 860m/s
Turrets: 3M87 AK-630 Kortik twin(6 barrel) CIWS-Missile turret
30mm/54 AO-18L / AK-630 (Pattern 1980?) modified AO-18 gun for light ship Shell: 0,39kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: AK-306 single(6 barrel) turret
30mm/54 GSh-6-30K AK-630 (Pattern 1979?) modified AO-18 gun twin mounts Shell: 0,39kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: AK-630M1-2 twin(6 barrel) turret
30mm/54 AO-18 / AK-630 (Pattern 1976?) cold war CIWS for ships Shell: 0,39kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: Ak-630, AK-630M, single(6 barrel) turrets
30mm/54 AK-230 (Pattern 1956?) early-cold war CIWS for ships Shell: 0,354kg, MV: 1050m/s
Turrets: Ak-230, AK-230M single turrets
25mm/79 110-PM - post war light AA gun for small ships and submarines Shell: 0,281kg, MV: 900m/s
Turrets: 2M-3, 2M-3M, 2M-8, 2M-10, twin BL-120 / 4M-120, BL-130 quad? turrets
25mm/76 84-KM - unsucceseful WW2 AA gun for light ships Shell: 0,288kg, MV: 910m/s
Turrets: single and twin mounts

So far the designations I've found:
B-1-K,P - 180mm
B-2 - 102mm
B-13 - 130mm
B-14 - 100mm
B-18 - 102mm
B-24 - 100mm
B-27 - 180mm
B-34 - 100mm
B-36 - 305mm
B-37 - 406mm
B-38 - 152mm
B-50 - 305mm

CM-5 - 100mm
CM-48 - 180mm

SM-2-1 - 130mm
SM-7 - 45mm
SM-20-ZIF1 - 45mm
SM-21-ZIF - 45mm
SM-24-ZIF - 57mm
SM-33 - 305mm
SM-40 - 220mm

ZIF-31 - 57mm
ZIF-68 - 45mm
ZIF-71 - 57mm
ZIF-72 - 57mm
ZIF-75 - 57mm
ZIF-91 - 100mm
ZIF-94 - 130mm

 

[isayyo2]

I’ve read that before the AK-130 was adopted, the Soviet Navy had looked at adopting the 2A44 203mm gun from the 2S7 Pion. Is there any truth to the statement?

 

[Tzoli]

I'm more interested in the 1930-55 gun projects

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

This was described as a "SM-39 Dual-purpose 100mm mounting for small ships".

Git it from the Design Bureau for Special Machine Building's Website.

I've seen references to an abortive SM-62 mounting, which came in versions with 130mm guns and 100mm guns (SM-52?). I can't find any information on it other than it appears to be have been intended for the last Project 58bis Cruisers and Project 56 Destroyers which were cancelled, as well as appearing on the original design for the Project 57 destroyers and in at least one of the preliminary designs for the Project 63 Cruiser.

 

[Tzoli]

SM-62 for Project 58bis? Modified/Improved Kynda class cruisers? Seems like halway between the CM-5 and AK-100 guns!
I thought the Project 63 CGN/BCGN would had 76mm AK-726 guns!

Do you know from which era this SM-39 DP mount was from? The radar dome indicates post WW2 maybe 50's? so for the 100mm CM-5 gun?

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

SM-62 for Project 58bis? Modified/Improved Kynda class cruisers? Seems like halway between the CM-5 and AK-100 guns!
I thought the Project 63 CGN/BCGN would had 76mm AK-726 guns!

Do you know from which era this SM-39 DP mount was from? The radar dome indicates post WW2 maybe 50's? so for the 100mm CM-5 gun?

See this post. The vast majority of the Project 63 designs had 76mm guns, but Design XN had four twin 130mm or 100mm mountings.

The image of the SM-39 Mounting came from this website. No real useful information, just PR fluff, I only know that it was designed at some point in the late 1940s.

 

[Kresta II]

I wish to collect, gather and discuss (But more importantly collect) the various naval gun projects the Soviet Union created, abandoned or wished to create.
Here I list them what I've gathered so far according to type, feel free to comment, provide info and I will edit them in.

Capital ship calibre guns: 300mm+

Some additions and corrections:

500mm Cannon - proposed for the TTZ BB study of 1936 simultaneously with 530mm
Turrets: 3-gun turret

All the guns for the projects of late 1935 - early 1936 (400mm, 450mm, 456mm, 457mm, 500 mm, 530 mm) had very approximate characteristics, since they were intended only for the concept definition phase and preliminary determination of the characteristics of battleships and were not intended for work on further real design.

457mm/55 post-war Cannon was also intended for one of the variants of the Project 24 battleships (3-gun turret) and had the following characteristics: shell: 1.580-1.720kg, MV: 820-850m/s

356mm/54 Cannon - proposed for the TTZ BB studies of 1937, Project 64, but in reality it was built like a railway cannon TP-1. Shell: 750kg, MV: 870m/s

 

[Tzoli]

Thanks for the extra info!
According to this diagram, Only two designs had 457mm weapons and those were in twin turrets:
Variant IIu-2p (twin turret, 2 shaft version)
Variant IIu-3 (twin turret, 3 shaft version)

Though the layout diagram displacement data is not consistent with a data table here on a later page, though that is more detailed.

 

[Kresta II]

In the work on the battleships of Project 24, there were several iterations using 457mm guns (or 458 mm is the same type).

The first iteration:

"Since the beginning of 1945, by order of the People's Commissar of the Navy, a submission under the chairmanship of the Chief
VMA Voroshilova S.P. Stavitsky made proposals for the OTZ on the battleship, the construction of which was supposed to be included in the draft plan of the military shipbuilding for 1946-1955.
During this period, TSKB-17, the Design NTK Bureau of the Navy and the Naval Academy was considered the numerous variantes a new battleship with different combinations of armament (9 - 406-mm, 12 - 406-mm and 9 - 457 mm, the second caliber 12 to 24 - 152-mm or 12 - 180-mm and even 8 - 220-mm guns, universal 100 - 130-mm and anti-aircraft 37 - 76-mm artillery), with speed of 28-33 knots, with a standard displacement of 75000-130000 tons, which were reflected in the proposals for the OTZ project.
So, for example, on July 14, 1945, the chief GUK N.V. Isachenkov informed the chief NTK Navy N.V. Alekseev: "Chief GMSH Admiral S.G. Kucherov addressed to I am asked to determine the main elements of the battleship with an 18-inch guns. In this regard, instruct to make rough estimates of the main TTE battleship and the results submit to me 28.07.45. The basis of the calculations is put:
1. Artillery armament.
a) 9 - 458-mm in 3 towers (according to the MK-1 scheme with proportionally increased armor thickness);
b) 12 - 180-mm in 4 towers of 2 on board;
c) 16 - 130-mm in 8 towers of 4 on board.
2. Take ammunition, respectively, 100, 150, 200 shots per barrel.
3. Side armor - according to project 24, the palube armor should provide protection against 18-inch armor-piercing projectiles at distances from 120 kab and above (up to the limit of the distance of this caliber), compare with a 16-inch projectile.
4. All other requirements - according to the project 24.
5. Determine the effect on the displacement of battleship... replacement of 4 x 3 - 180-mm towers by 4 x 2 - 130-mm".
In August 1945, this sketch was presented to the management. Naturally, due to the extremely large displacement, it did not receive development."

 

[Kresta II]

Second iteration:

"In 1948, work on Project 24 (together with a group of specialists headed by Chief Designer F.E. Bespolov) was transferred from TSKB-17 to the newly formed TSKB-L (since the end of 1949 TSKB-16), where together with the Design Bureau TsNII VK continued to develop the presketch project guidelines, on the basis of which it was supposed to be compiled TTZ, as well as the elaboration of various private issues. As of January 25, 1949, 483 thousand rubles were spent on the development of project 24 (of which 153 thousand rubles were spent on the work of the TsNII VC). By June 1949 , there was fourteen variants of the pre-launch project were developed (11 with 406-mm and three with 457-mm artillery). The variants differed mainly in the number and location of universal caliber guns (24 - 130-mm, 24 - 152-mm, 12 - 152-mm and 16 - 100-mm, 12 - 152-mm non-universal and 16 - 100-mm), as well as booking schemes. The standard
displacement of the ships reached 80,000-100,000 tons, the speed lay within 28-29 knots.
To develop recommendations of the central departments and the Naval Research Institute for the further development of battleship pr. 24 deputy. Commander - in - Chief Navy Shipbuilding and Armament P.S. Abankin on June 21, 1949 issued an order on the organization of a special commission. It was headed by the head of the Department of Prospective Development of the Navy of the Main Operational Directorate of the General Staff (GSH) of the Navy, Captain 1st rank N.V. Osiko.
The Commission worked at the Central Research Institute of VK from 24 to June 28, 1949, presenting the deputy. Commander - in - Chief Navy by KIV P.S. Abankin and the chief The General Staff of the Navy A.G. Golovko, their recommendations, theessence of which was as follows:
1. By armament
1.1. 406-mm artillery is insufficient to fully solve the problem of shooting at battleships type Iowa. This task can be satisfactorily solved by a 457-mm caliber with armor-piercing shells of two different shapes: with increased (for piercing vertical armor) and reduced (for breaking horizontal obstacles) initial speeds. Therefore, it is advisable to work out options for a battleship with four paired and three three-gun 457-mm turret artillery installations (combat- a set of 100 shots per barrel). Considering the possibility of improving the
ballistic characteristics of 406-mm guns (increasing the initial velocity of the projectile from 830 to 870 m/s), as well as the presence of working lines of the MK-1 tower - continue work on the variant with 3 x 3 - 406-mm.
1.2. The firing angles of the towers of the main caliber of the battleship should be at least 150 ° (excluding muzzle gas exposure zones).
1.3. The most acceptable option is with a universal caliber of 12 x 2 - 130 mm with a rhombic arrangement of the towers. In order to increase the number of barrels of the universal caliber, "it is highly desirable to develop a quadruple 130-mm artillery installation."
1.4. Anti-aircraft assault rifles should be accepted in the composition: 16 x 4 - 45-mm and 10 x 4 - 25-mm.
1.5. Aviation armament - to exclude..."

 

[Kresta II]

Second iteration (continued):

"On September 7, 1949, the conclusions of the commission were reported by its chairman to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy I.S. Yumashev.
After a short discussion, the Commander-in-chief of the Navy approved the conclusions of the commission, having decided to develop a battleship in variants with 3 x 3 - 457-mm and 3 x 3 - 406-mm main caliber and in sub-variants with quad 130-mm universal artillery installations.

On the instructions of the ANIMI TSKB-34 of the Ministry of Defense Industry in the second half of 1949, it was carried out under the leadership of D.E. Bril (responsible executors E.G. Rudyak - by gun, and A. Grauerman) elaboration of the basic tactical and technical
data of a three-gun 457-mm tower with cellars. Two-gun turrets were not worked out, since it was clear that placing 4 x 2 - 457-mm turrets on a ship would require significantly more weights than 3 x 3 - 457-mm.
The projected 457-mm artillery system significantly exceeded the world-famous naval artillery installations both in firing range (up to 52 km) and mass projectile (up to 1720 kg), and in terms of its mass-dimensional characteristics (total weight 4160 tons instead of 2250 tons of MK-1 with 3 - 406-mm guns). As a result, the replacement on the ship pr. 24 3 x 3 - 406-mm MK-1 towers by 3 x 3 - 457-mm led to an increase in its standard displacement to 86,000 tons"

But... "On March 4, 1950, I.V. Stalin, when asked by the Naval Minister I.S. Yumashev about the battleship... which guns to put on it, replied that no more than 9 - 406-mm."

 

[Kresta II]

Third (and last) iteration

In addition to the projects of the "small" battleships with 406mm and 457mm main caliber mentioned by you, TsNII-45 in 1951 developed a project of a "large" battleship with 457mm guns in order to show the advantages of small ships of this class primarily in terms of cost. This project was the last project of the Soviet "superlinkor", and together with the simultaneously developed "small" battleships - the last project of a ship with 457mm guns.

 

[Sgt_Miller]

Does somebody know the information about 180mm/60 CM-48 Pattern 1955 and 220mm/65 SM-40 Pattern 1953? I'm interested in these 4-gun turret systems, were they designed to be a dual-purpose gun?

 

[Tzoli]

Does somebody know the information about 180mm/60 CM-48 Pattern 1955 and 220mm/65 SM-40 Pattern 1953? I'm interested in these 4-gun turret systems, were they designed to be a dual-purpose gun?

Navweaps only has info on the 220mm gun:

Russia / USSR 220 mm/65 (8.66") SM-40 - NavWeaps

www.navweaps.com

What I've read thst both guns would be single purpose mountings in battleships and dual purpose in cruisers

 

[Tzoli]

1.1. 406-mm artillery is insufficient to fully solve the problem of shooting at battleships type Iowa. This task can be satisfactorily solved by a 457-mm caliber with armor-piercing shells of two different shapes: with increased (for piercing vertical armor) and reduced (for breaking horizontal obstacles) initial speeds. Therefore, it is advisable to work out options for a battleship with four paired and three three-gun 457-mm turret artillery installations (combat- a set of 100 shots per barrel). Considering the possibility of improving the
ballistic characteristics of 406-mm guns (increasing the initial velocity of the projectile from 830 to 870 m/s), as well as the presence of working lines of the MK-1 tower - continue work on the variant with 3 x 3 - 406-mm.

New 406mm cannon or further increase the Muzzle Velocity of the B-37 Pattern 1937 cannon reducing its already shorter barrel life?

 

[Kresta II]

Unfortunately, at the moment I have no information about the development of a new 406mm gun after the B-37 or about work to improve its characteristics. From my point of view, these are B-37 guns modified by new technologies mastered in the USSR after the WWII.

 

[Kresta II]

Some additions and corrections to Cruiser calibre guns: 135-300mm:

305mm, 280mm, 254(250)mm guns "pattern 1936" - intended for the Project 22 heavy/large cruiser design. Only research work on the selection of optimal weapons for a heavy cruiser of this type. The 305mm gun was chosen for further design and later became the B-36 gun for the "small" battleship of pr.25, a direct follower of the heavy cruiser pr.22. Turrets: 3-gun turret

254mm gun "pattern 1937" - only preliminary studies for the TTZ heavy cruiser pr.69. The design has not started. Turrets: 3-gun turret

254mm gun "pattern 1940" - only research work for future "medium" heavy cruisers

250mm gun "pattern 1935" - only preliminary studies for the project of the heavy cruiser TsKBS-1. Turrets: 3-gun turret

250mm gun "pattern 1936" - Italian design gun for the Ansaldo projects of heavy cruisers for the Soviet Union. Turrets: 3-gun turret

240mm/60 "pattern 1935" - soviet design gun for TsKBS-1 heavy cruiser "X". Turrets: 3-gun turret.

There was no 210mm naval gun, it was only a research work in 1942 on the choice of a 210-230 mm caliber for a new gun for correcting TTZ on the heavy cruiser pr.83. The result was a new 220mm gun - the future SM-40.

203mm gun "pattern 1941" - only preliminary studies for the TTZ of the heavy cruiser pr.83, inspired by German heavy cruisers of the "Admiral Hipper" type. Turrets: 2-gun turret

 

[Tzoli]

I thought Project 83 was Lützow herself with some Soviet modifications to finish her like AA guns Range finders etc.
There were projects to arm her with Soviet made 203mm weapons not the German ones?
Though I have data mentioning an OTZ design heavy cruiser based on the Lützow? 4x2 8", 12x1 100mm, 12x1 37mm, one triple torpedo launcher, 8" belt armour from 1941

Actually my book source about the Stalingrad class states the 1943 iteration being designed with 210mm guns on 20.000tons displacement

 

[Kresta II]

I thought Project 83 was Lützow herself with some Soviet modifications to finish her like AA guns Range finders etc.

Yes, thanks for the correction - instead of "pr.83" (revision of the original "Lützow" with German guns) should read "pr.82" (early versions)

There were projects to arm her with Soviet made 203mm weapons not the German ones?

As far as I know, only original German guns were supposed. Perhaps they (or their licensed version) were considered initially for project 82.

Though I have data mentioning an OTZ design heavy cruiser based on the Lützow? 4x2 8", 12x1 100mm, 12x1 37mm, one triple torpedo launcher, 8" belt armour from 1941

This is the first version of Project 82, based on the technical data of "Lützow"

Actually my book source about the Stalingrad class states the 1943 iteration being designed with 210mm guns on 20.000tons displacement

Could you please indicate your source? The sources I have at my disposal contain information about three variants (18,000 tons, 20,000 tons and 25,000 tons) of the pr.82 iteration of 1942 - the beginning of 43, and 8 variants (20,000 tons - 22,000 tons) of the 1943- early 1944 iteration. But none of them had 210mm artillery - either 203mm (early versions) or already 220mm.

 

[Tzoli]

Admiral Kuznetsov's Cruiser Killer: The Project 66 Design by Stephen McLaughlin

also mentioned in
Stalins Ocean-Going Fleet Soviet Naval Strategy and Shipbuilding Programmes, 1935-1953 by Jürgen Rohwer and Mikhail S. Monakov

Already in May 1941 there was an OTZ for a new heavy cruiser following
to some extent the acquired German cruiser Petropavlovsk (ex-Liitzow)/projekt 83
with eight 203mm guns, but this was not realized. The design changed to a
heavy cruiser as projekt 82, planned in September 1943 with 20,000-22,000t,
a speed of about 36kt, and an armament of nine 210-230mm guns. Because
the detailed design was showing that it was not possible to achieve the proposed
performances with this displacement, it was in an 0TZ of 15 November 1944
raised to 25,000-26,000t, and the speed reduced to 33kt, with an armament
of nine 220mm guns in triple turrets,

 

[Kresta II]

There are some questionable points here. Here is what A.B. Morin, who worked directly with materials from the Russian naval archives, writes on this issue "Суперлинкоры Сталина. «Советский Союз», «Кронштадт», «Сталинград»" :

"After the acquisition of the "Lützow" and a thorough study of the design documentation for it, the question arose about the feasibility of creating on this basis more advanced ships of the same subclass, armed with 203-mm artillery, which would be a further development of a number of innovative solutions of the project 83. On the instructions of N.G. Kuznetsov, the Main Naval Staff prepared a preliminary design study for the design of such a ship (project 82) with the same composition of artillery of the main caliber, which was approved by the People's Commissar of the Navy in mid-May 1941.

Based on the approved assignment, the Design Bureau of the Scientific and Technical Committee The Navy (KB NTK) has worked out three main variants of the ship: according to the OTZ of Main Naval Staff with a displacement of about 25,000 tons; with reduced requirements for booking and speed - about 18,000 tons, according to the proposals of the NTK Design Bureau - about 20,000 tons. Based on the results of the study, the NTK reported to the Commander-in-chief of the Navy its considerations on the expediency of changing the preliminary assignment, which noted the discrepancy between the main tactical and technical elements (TTE) specified in the OTZ, the purpose of the ship and proposed to accept 220-mm artillery as the main caliber for it (which would ensure the superiority of this cruiser over all existing cruisers with 203-mm artillery), increase the number of anti-aircraft 100-mm guns and 37-mm anti-aircraft guns, install 20-mm machine guns instead of machine guns, reduce the number of aircraft, reduce the thickness of the reservation, speed of travel and range of navigation. Clarification of the requirements of the preliminary OTZ was delayed due to the outbreak of the Great Patriotic War.

Taking into account the experience of combat operations at sea during the Second World War and the proposals of the NTK in 1943-1945, the OTZ for the design of the heavy cruiser project 82 was repeatedly changed with the clarification of the main tasks of the ship, the composition of its armament, reservation, displacement, speed and range of navigation.

In the second edition of the OTZ, approved by the People's Commissar of the Navy in September 1943, the main caliber was increased to 220 mm, and in addition to the anti-aircraft caliber (100 mm), a universal (130 mm) was also provided, the number of 37 mm anti-aircraft submachine guns increased significantly, there were increased requirements for seaworthiness (the use of weapons in sea waves up to nine points). With such an increase in armament , displacement was limited to 20,000 - 22,000 tons .

According to the OTZ of 1943, TSKB-17 worked out eight variants of the main TTE of the project 82 ship until the end of May of the following year. These studies have shown the incompatibility of a number of requirements of the task (in terms of the composition of weapons, booking volume, displacement and speed).

In the third edition of the OTZ, approved by N.G. Kuznetsov in November 1944, the purpose of the cruiser and the main caliber of artillery were maintained according to its second edition, the universal 130 mm caliber was strengthened by eliminating the 100 mm anti-aircraft caliber, the caliber of small artillery was increased to 45 mm and, in addition to it, a second caliber was provided — 23 mm, the requirements for unsinkability and speed were reduced. With these changes, the displacement of the heavy cruiser was limited to 25,000 - 26,000 tons. In September 1945, a clarification of the value of the second caliber of the small artillery followed, which was changed to 25 mm.

At the end of 1946, TsNIIVK and TsKB-17 presented to the Navy Shipbuilding Department the results of the study of four variants of the main elements of Project 82 for the 1944 OTZ. They were reviewed on January 13, 1947 by a commission headed by Admiral I.S. Yumashev. In his conclusion, after discussing the developments, Yumashev noted that "for such a large ship with relatively strong protection, the main caliber of 220 mm artillery is certainly small."

 

[Kresta II]

Some additions and corrections to Cruiser calibre guns: 135-300mm (continued):

180mm/60(or 59 in some documents) gun B-1-K "pattern 1931" - only the first experimental gun (No. 1203) was re-lined from 203mm/50, the rest are already a new design.

The other 180 mm/57 guns were only B-27 & B-1-P in various marine and coastal installations.

155mm and 152mm guns "pattern 1936" were intended only for preliminary determination of the characteristics of future battleships and their medium - caliber guns. The design has not started.

There is also an unresolved issue with 152 mm guns - the dual-purpose post-WWII BL-115 (2-gun turret) and BL-118 (3-gun turret) installations used upgraded B-38 guns or new KM-52 anti-aircraft guns with close ballistic data.

 

[Kresta II]

Some Soviet/Russian developments of the period 1970-2000:

406 mm/16 smoothbore cannon-launcher, 1984. Shell: 1200kg "heavy" or 110kg "light long - range" or unknown missiles. Turrets: single turret.

203 mm/55 2A44 "Pion-M", 1970s - naval version of the "Pion" gun. Shell: 110(?)kg, MV: 960m/s. Turrets: single turret.

152mm/54 2A36 "Bombarda", early 1980s - a naval version of the "Hyacinth" gun. Shell: 46(?)kg, MV: 945m/s. Turrets: single turret.

152 mm/(more than 52) "Coalition-F", mid-2000s - a naval version of the double-barreled early version of the "Coalition" gun. Turrets: single turret.

 

[Tzoli]

Coalition gun??? you mean THAT Koalitsiya gun?

Which evolved into this?

2S35 Koalitsiya-SV - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kresta II]

Yes, it is this gun.

 

[Petrus]

View attachment 669163
This was described as a "SM-39 Dual-purpose 100mm mounting for small ships".

Git it from the Design Bureau for Special Machine Building's Website.

I've seen references to an abortive SM-62 mounting, which came in versions with 130mm guns and 100mm guns (SM-52?). I can't find any information on it other than it appears to be have been intended for the last Project 58bis Cruisers and Project 56 Destroyers which were cancelled, as well as appearing on the original design for the Project 57 destroyers and in at least one of the preliminary designs for the Project 63 Cruiser.

As for the SM-39 mounting here you've got a photo of the experimental one (with a top view of it) as well as a drawing of Project 49 frigate (guard ship) that was to be armed with it.

Piotr

 

[Tzoli]

Ahh so it was to be a twin mount! Fixed it in the first post!

 

[Tzoli]

I wonder... does the 203 mm/55 2A44 or 152mm/54 2A36 guns was the soviet answer to the 8"/55 Mark 28 / 32 gun tested on USS Hull and intended for the Strike Cruiser?
And the 152mm Koalitsiya the Russian answer to the proposed American 155mm/62 Mark 51 or the British 155mm/39 and /52 Future Naval guns, intended for the Zumwalts and Type 45 Destroyers?

 

[Colonial-Marine]

1.1. 406-mm artillery is insufficient to fully solve the problem of shooting at battleships type Iowa. This task can be satisfactorily solved by a 457-mm caliber with armor-piercing shells of two different shapes: with increased (for piercing vertical armor) and reduced (for breaking horizontal obstacles) initial speeds. Therefore, it is advisable to work out options for a battleship with four paired and three three-gun 457-mm turret artillery installations (combat- a set of 100 shots per barrel). Considering the possibility of improving the
ballistic characteristics of 406-mm guns (increasing the initial velocity of the projectile from 830 to 870 m/s), as well as the presence of working lines of the MK-1 tower - continue work on the variant with 3 x 3 - 406-mm.

New 406mm cannon or further increase the Muzzle Velocity of the B-37 Pattern 1937 cannon reducing its already shorter barrel life?

I have read somewhere that the Soviets considered using a 55 caliber length barrel on some post-war battleship designs. That might have enabled such an increase in velocity without a ridiculously short barrel life.

 

[gollevainen]

Apparently the A-217, single-barreled predecessor of AK-130 was build after all. Found this image on the russian internet...

 

[Tzoli]

Looks like a somewhat enlarged AK-100 turret. Navweaps states it was buit but the single barrel version could not reach the desired 60 RPM hence the development of a twin mount. But now it looks logical why the Kirov BCGN had 2x1 100mm AK-100 guns and her sisters the twin 130mm AK-130. Would it be that Kirov was designed with single 130mm's in mind?

 

[Tzoli]

By the way, where did you find the photo?

 

[gollevainen]

I will send you the link in PM as I don't remember what the forums policy was regarding other forums here.

 

[Tzoli]

I will send you the link in PM as I don't remember what the forums policy was regarding other forums here.

To my knowledge they are allowed. The purpose of this forum is information/data collection and sharing

 

[Tzoli]

I wonder about the barrel lengths of the 1935-36 Gun proposals, the 450-456-457-500-530mm ones.
I can see the Russians would want /50 calibre for the 450-457mm but making /50 for the 500 and 530mm ones would be problematic.
On the other hand we seen gun proposals from Krupp in 1942 for 450mm/60 and 500mm/60 guns and there were the 533mm/52 Gerät 36 gun as well of 1938!

Such long barrels would be very heavy and difficult to manufacture.
The Japanese 51cm/45 stated 227tons, 46cm/45 164,6tons
The American 18"/48: 180,7tons,
The British 18"/45: 161,5tons

 

[gollevainen]

I will send you the link in PM as I don't remember what the forums policy was regarding other forums here.

To my knowledge they are allowed. The purpose of this forum is information/data collection and sharing

Морская, корабельная и береговая артиллерия (58/68) [Форумы Balancer.Ru]

~~~Amur73> На дистанционной трубке надо провернуть конус, на нужные цыфорки. Amur73> Это делается ДО стрельбы, еще в погребе, или каким то образов автоматизировано хотя бы на этапе досылания выстрела… (стр. 58 из 68)

forums.airbase.ru

 

[ceccherini]

I wonder about the barrel lengths of the 1935-36 Gun proposals, the 450-456-457-500-530mm ones.
I can see the Russians would want /50 calibre for the 450-457mm but making /50 for the 500 and 530mm ones would be problematic.
On the other hand we seen gun proposals from Krupp in 1942 for 450mm/60 and 500mm/60 guns and there were the 533mm/52 Gerät 36 gun as well of 1938!

Such long barrels would be very heavy and difficult to manufacture.
The Japanese 51cm/45 stated 227tons, 46cm/45 164,6tons
The American 18"/48: 180,7tons,
The British 18"/45: 161,5tons

There is not a particular technical difficulty in making very long guns but an industrial one: the reason the Japanese went for a 46/45 gun for the Yamatos is that the largest steel ingot their existing steel mill could have made had a weight of 160 ton against the 200 ton and 240 ton required for respectively a 46 cm/50 and a 51 cm/50. As the capacity of the existing infrastructure alredy enabled them to equip their next generation battleships with guns larger than any foe they stayed with what they had going for new metallurgic equipment only when they forsee the risk of an equal or superior USN response and so a larger gun was perceived to be needed in the context of the A-150 program. Soviet naval industry in the 30s was very much in his infancy so whatever the size the manufacturing of large guns would have required scratch new infrastructures so actually by an economic standpoint it would have been much simpler for the Soviet to built extremely large naval guns than for any consolidated great naval power. But lacking in experience in large ships design must have advised to reduce complexity to the level already managed by other large nations and to go for 16" gunned battleship and that was already quite a task. But I believe in their case the conservative armament choice depends much more on the complexity of the platform than on that of the gun system. Afterall in the immediate postwar, after the experience of the designing and building the Sovetsky Soyuz class, the naval and industrial circles strongly pushed the 457 mm/55 gun (of similar weight to a 20" gun) for the project 24 battleships and it was Stalin to personally order to stay focused on existing and tested gun designs.

 

[Tzoli]

I've found an article about the Koalitsiya gun naval installment. Apparently it was proposed in 2020 or 21 for the Krivak IV - Admiral Grigorovich class frigates:

ЦÐÐÐ "ÐÑÑевеÑÑник" ÑниÑиÑиÑÑÐµÑ Ð¼Ð¾ÑÑкÑÑ Ð¸ ÑÑÑопÑÑнÑÑ Ð°ÑÑиллеÑиÑ

gurkhan.blogspot.com

 

[Nik]

Beyond the sheer problems of casting / boring / mounting / loading / cooling 'monsters', would there have been the 'Railway Gun' factor of prompt barrel erosion ?
Okay, a 'battleship' is big enough to have work-shop that could 'turn-down' a stock of over-sized driving rings, but the fire-control issues are mind-numbing...

 

[Tzoli]

No, gun barrels would be changed in docks via cranes. Only small guns like 130mm and below would be replaced onboard the ship.