Zero-carbon fuel PN (Calum?)

F119Doctor said:
A starting place for bio-Butanol

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Biobutanol

afdc.energy.gov
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Biobutanol has been used as a fuel in motor racing in the recent past. A DuPont-Shell joint venture was producing it from wood waste and other biomass in the early 2010s, and because it could be freely blended with gasoline, it was adopted in the American Le Mans Series for a time.

Because it has a higher energy density than ethanol, it had some benefits in terms of vehicle packaging and fewer pit stops.

IndyCar used denatured ethanol for many years. Not sure what they will be using under the new rules package, now that Shell is the fuel sponsor (real Shell, not Motiva).

Total supplies the World Endurance Championship with a synthetic fuel derived from wine waste.
 
GeorgeA said:
Biobutanol has been used as a fuel in motor racing in the recent past. A DuPont-Shell joint venture was producing it from wood waste and other biomass in the early 2010s, and because it could be freely blended with gasoline, it was adopted in the American Le Mans Series for a time.

Because it has a higher energy density than ethanol, it had some benefits in terms of vehicle packaging and fewer pit stops.

IndyCar used denatured ethanol for many years. Not sure what they will be using under the new rules package, now that Shell is the fuel sponsor (real Shell, not Motiva).

Total supplies the World Endurance Championship with a synthetic fuel derived from wine waste.
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I bet. The usual hit to MPG from going from gasoline to E85 was something like 2/3. 24mpg on gas, 16 on E85. So the money savings of burning the cheaper fuel were taken out by the increased fuel consumption.

But if you're burning E85 for performance, it's significantly better. You can run higher boost from a turbocharger without detonation, since the E85 will evaporate in the intake and cool the air down enough to condense water(!).
 
E85 will just evaporate in a small fraction in the intake of naturally aspirated engines and the large amount of evaporation heat hinders the homogenisation in the cylinder. Starting a MPI engine with E85 can be tricky and the engines will have problems with load changes. I drove quite a lot with "E60" (E85 plus some gazoline) without modifications in my old Astra, it worked well once the engine was warm.
 
Nicknick said:
E85 will just evaporate in a small fraction in the intake of naturally aspirated engines and the large amount of evaporation heat hinders the homogenisation in the cylinder. Starting a MPI engine with E85 can be tricky and the engines will have problems with load changes. I drove quite a lot with "E60" (E85 plus some gazoline) without modifications in my old Astra, it worked well once the engine was warm.
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Hence my comment about running a lot more boost.
 
sure, but turbocharged engines sometimes run in idle or on low load as well.
 
Foo Fighter said:
What is the F1 variety?
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Currently, F1 uses E10, with the ethanol made from non-food sources.

The target for the 2026 rules package is 100% sustainable fuel. The actual composition is unclear at this point. It might be fuel created using the Porsche-Exxon direct CO2 capture process, or another alternative process from Aramco.

F1 has used some pretty exotic brews in the past. The dominant Honda turbo V6 of the 1980s used a fuel composed of 84% toluene and 16% heptane.
 
F1 in the 1980's was absolute madness. 1984 McLaren had 1500 hp in quals in... Monaco. It scared the living shit even out of the late Lauda.
 
Before the Honda, the Porsche V6 was dominant, it shouldn't be forgotton, as well as Ranault V6 which was the first Turbo engine in F1.

The fuel rules changed several times during the 80 th, but the fuel wasn't really much better than ordinary fuel from the gas station. A lot of effort was taken, to optimize the volumetric energy content while keeing the Octane number relatively low (because of the rules).
 
At least most of the time, thats indeed correct for a typicall 1.0 L downsizing engines with a long gear ratio.
 
Nicknick said:
At least most of the time, thats indeed correct for a typicall 1.0 L downsizing engines with a long gear ratio.
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And of course me being an evil hot rodder at heart, I want to use the electric motor core of most of those turbos but on bigger compressor/turbine wheels. So that a 4 rotor wankel that can spin at 10krpm will still have boost at 2krpm.
 
Nicknick said:
Sounds intresting, but what do you mean with "electric motor core of most of those turbos"? Elektrik supported turbo chargers are common in large two stroke engines and Formula1 race engines but other than that only prototypes do exist.

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Mercedes/AMG is using a couple of them. One with a 48v electric motor to go with their mild hybrid system, another one with a 480v motor in the top of the line model.
 
Nicknick said:
Before the Honda, the Porsche V6 was dominant, it shouldn't be forgotton, as well as Ranault V6 which was the first Turbo engine in F1.

The fuel rules changed several times during the 80 th, but the fuel wasn't really much better than ordinary fuel from the gas station. A lot of effort was taken, to optimize the volumetric energy content while keeing the Octane number relatively low (because of the rules).
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