WW1 period (~1900-1920s) experimental and small-known artillery (field, siege, AA)

Hi.

Some less known japanese guns:

Pre-WW1 but used at least until 1920:

jap typ 31 gebgesch.jpg
Type Meiji 31 7,5 cm Mountain Gun. The Type Meiji 31 Field Gun was very similar but had a longer barrel (2,2 m instead of 1,05 m)

jap exp 75 mm gebgesch 1920.jpg
IJA Experimental 7,5 cm Mountain Gun from 1920

jap typ 41 kavalleriegeschuetz 3.jpg
Type Meiji 41 7,5 cm Cavalry Gun with its screw-type breechblock.

jap typ 38 10 cm kanone 2.jpg
Type Meiji 38 10 cm Field Gun

jap typ Meiji 38 120 mm haubitze.jpg
Type Meiji 38 12 cm Howitzer

Yours

tom! ;)
 
Schneider artilllery, part 1:
 

Attachments

  • 11.png
    11.png
    774.5 KB · Views: 27
  • 12.png
    12.png
    718.5 KB · Views: 21
  • 13.png
    13.png
    732.3 KB · Views: 24
  • 14.png
    14.png
    658.5 KB · Views: 21
  • 15.png
    15.png
    730.3 KB · Views: 19
  • 16.png
    16.png
    672.8 KB · Views: 18
  • 17.png
    17.png
    736.5 KB · Views: 18
  • 18.png
    18.png
    664.9 KB · Views: 17
  • 19.png
    19.png
    766.7 KB · Views: 18
  • 10.png
    10.png
    692.9 KB · Views: 18
  • 9.png
    9.png
    745.1 KB · Views: 16
  • 0.png
    0.png
    355.3 KB · Views: 19
  • 1.png
    1.png
    1.2 MB · Views: 19
  • 2.png
    2.png
    663.1 KB · Views: 19
  • 3.png
    3.png
    772.9 KB · Views: 19
  • 4.png
    4.png
    743.7 KB · Views: 19
  • 5.png
    5.png
    804.1 KB · Views: 19
  • 6.png
    6.png
    721.4 KB · Views: 18
  • 7.png
    7.png
    774.6 KB · Views: 18
  • 8.png
    8.png
    732.6 KB · Views: 24
Schneider artillery, part 2:
 

Attachments

  • 20.png
    20.png
    682 KB · Views: 22
  • 21.png
    21.png
    763.1 KB · Views: 20
  • 22.png
    22.png
    692.4 KB · Views: 18
  • 24.png
    24.png
    626.8 KB · Views: 18
  • 23.png
    23.png
    751.9 KB · Views: 18
  • 25.png
    25.png
    718.3 KB · Views: 18
  • 26.png
    26.png
    705.8 KB · Views: 19
  • 27.png
    27.png
    724.4 KB · Views: 18
  • 28.png
    28.png
    669.8 KB · Views: 17
  • 29.png
    29.png
    687.6 KB · Views: 16
  • 30.png
    30.png
    661.6 KB · Views: 17
  • 31.png
    31.png
    717.4 KB · Views: 19
  • 32.png
    32.png
    707.5 KB · Views: 19
  • 33.png
    33.png
    780.6 KB · Views: 18
  • 34.png
    34.png
    747.3 KB · Views: 19
  • 35.png
    35.png
    722.5 KB · Views: 17
  • 36.png
    36.png
    710.3 KB · Views: 18
  • 37.png
    37.png
    675.4 KB · Views: 18
  • 38.png
    38.png
    682.1 KB · Views: 16
  • 39.png
    39.png
    701.5 KB · Views: 17
More Russian projects and proposals:
4.8-inch L/11 mountain and cavalry howitzer based on the 4.8-inch M1910 field howitzer
4.8-inch L/18 and L/20 howitzers - two experimental howitzers that were supposedly built at the Perm Plant, both based on the 4.8-inch M1910 howitzer, one with a Schneider/Putilov piston breech, the other with a Krupp wedge breech. I would guess that the muzzle velocity of the 4.8-inch shell (weight 23.3 kg / 57 Russian lb) would have been 1,400-1,500 fps (427-457 m/s). The long 4.8-inch howitzers were originally intended for fortress and siege artillery, but I think that if they had been produced, they would have replaced the 4.8-inch howitzers M1909 and M1910. Among the Russian 6-inch howitzers, the fortress and siege howitzer M1909 was much more common than the lighter and shorter-range field howitzer M1910 (for example, in 1914 the Russians had more than 500 M1909 and about 250-300 M1910), a similar situation was possible among the 4.8-inch howitzers.
4.2-inch gun L/35 - based on the design of the 4.2-inch gun M1910 L/28. Here everything is quite simple, in field artillery the Russians had a 4.2-inch gun M1910 L/28 and a 6-inch howitzer M1910 L/12, which weighed almost the same and were close in design, in siege artillery the Russians had a 6-inch M1909 L/14, and it would be logical to have a 4.2-inch gun of similar weight. Two guns were produced, which were used during the First World War. According to my estimates, the muzzle velocity of a 4.2-inch projectile of 1 pood (16.38 kg) from the L/35 gun should have been 2160 fps (658 mps).
9-inch howitzer on a mount of an 11-inch Schneider howitzer, it would be similar to the American 240-mm howitzer M1918. It was assumed that this howitzer would be manufactured at the Perm Artillery Plant. As far as I know, on the eve of the First World War, reconstruction of this plant was planned, including to increase productivity, but due to the outbreak of the war, this project was not implemented.
130-mm gun L/45 - the Russian military wanted such a weapon as a long-range one. According to my estimates, if they had implemented such a weapon, using the design of the 6-inch gun L/45, the weight of the barrel and breech would have been 240 poods (3931 kg), the weight of the projectile 2 poods (32.76 kg), the muzzle velocity 2500 fps (762 mps). Most likely, the Russians wanted to have an analogue of the German 135-mm gun K 09.
6-inch gun L/40-45 - a new gun for fortresses, which was to be installed in armored turrets, in terms of ballistics, it would apparently be between the 6-inch gun M1910 L/28 and the 6-inch gun L/45.
In addition, it was supposed to install naval guns in the fortresses - 120-mm guns L/45 and L/50, 130-mm guns L/55, 6-inch guns L/45 and L/50, 10-inch guns L/45.
In reality, at the beginning of the First World War, the Russians had virtually no modern heavy guns more powerful than the 6-inch howitzer M1909 and the 4.2-inch gun M1910, not counting 200 6-inch guns M1904. On the one hand, Russia was quickly catching up with Germany in 150/152-mm howitzers (840 sFH 02 for Germany versus 250-300 M1910 and 500+ M1909 for Russia), 105/107-mm guns (182 K 04 for Germany versus 150+ M1910 for Russia), on the other hand, it had no analogues in the army to the German 210-mm mortars, 135-mm guns, 305- and 420-mm howitzers. At the same time, which is rather strange to me, Germany made little use in 1914-1917 of the developments that Russia had ordered from it before the war. For example, it is known that the competitor of the 6-inch Schneider/Putilov L/28 gun was a similar Krupp gun, it is strange that during the war Germany did not launch mass production of such guns in a caliber of 150 mm, using the much weaker 150-mm howitzers sFH 02 and sFH 13. Also, as far as I remember, Krupp offered the Russians a 9-inch howitzer with a range of about 10 kilometers, the Russians refused - but why did Germany not produce this howitzer in a caliber of 220-240 mm?
 
Last edited:
Erhard (or Ehrhardt) 280 mm L/12 howitzer, weight 11 466 kg, "height of line of fire" 1685 mm, recoil lenght 880 mm (on 59°), elevation from +20 to +60°, traverse 10°, shell weight 344 kg, muzzle velocity 256 mps, range 6018 m.

91817_original.jpg
92052_original.jpg
92197_original.jpg
I don't know how many of these guns were produced in Germany. They were going to produce it in Russia, but the question of which plant should accept the order - Perm or St. Petersburg - was not resolved, and the issue of copyright for the gun design was also not resolved.
 
what

Here's the c&p from wiki

The concept of the railgun was first introduced by French inventor André Louis Octave Fauchon-Villeplée, who created a small working model in 1917 with the help of the Société anonyme des accumulateurs Tudor (now Tudor Batteries).[11][12] During World War I, the French Director of Inventions at the Ministry of Armaments, Jules-Louis Brenton, commissioned Fauchon-Villeplee to develop a 30-mm to 50-mm electric cannon on July 25, 1918, after delegates from the Commission des Inventions witnessed test trials of the working model in 1917. However, the project was abandoned once World War I ended later that year on November 11, 1918.[12] Fauchon-Villeplee filed for a US patent on 1 April 1919, which was issued in July 1922 as patent no. 1,421,435 "Electric Apparatus for Propelling Projectiles".[13] In his device, two parallel busbars are connected by the wings of a projectile, and the whole apparatus surrounded by a magnetic field. By passing current through busbars and projectile, a force is induced which propels the projectile along the bus-bars and into flight.[14]

In 1923, Russian scientist A. L. Korol’kov detailed his criticisms of Fauchon-Villeplee's design, arguing against some of the claims that Fauchon-Villeplee made about the advantages of his invention. Korol’kov eventually concluded that while the construction of a long-range electric gun was within the realm of possibility, the practical application of Fauchon-Villeplee's railgun was hindered by its enormous electric energy consumption and its need for a special electric generator of considerable capacity to power it.
I was expecting that to be a typo or something for a railway gun, not a Fleming Launcher!
 
During the Russo-Japanese War, in the besieged fortress of Port Arthur, the Russians converted torpedo tubes for firing on land, there were several options, 225-240 and 254 mm, the firing range was from 100 to 200 meters, the weight of the projectile was 74-75 kg, the weight of the explosive (pyroxylin or dynamite) was 25-30 kg. The data is taken from the Russian edition of "Nevsky Bastion".
There are some reports that these experiments were used to develop mortars in Russia between 1905 and 1914, but I know nothing about them. Theoretically, the Russians could have developed something similar to the 240mm French and British mortars of the First World War.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20250121-161209.png
    Screenshot_20250121-161209.png
    1 MB · Views: 16
More Russian projects and proposals, period after the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878, mortars:
Part I, 2.5 - 6 inches:

2.5-inch (63.5 mm) mortar - ammunition from a 2.5-inch mountain gun (cast iron fragmentation grenade and grapeshot), range of 1.5-2 versta (1.6-2.13 km). The mortar is mounted on a pallet, the breech is wedge-shaped. For short distances, the mortar is carried on a special stretcher by two people, for longer distances, the mortar is transported on a two-wheeled cart. The mortar was intended for fortresses and siege "parks".
In the early 1890s, a prototype of a 2.5-inch mortar with a new barrel, immediately adapted for smokeless powder, range of about 2.5 versta (2.67 km), Bange breech.

3.425-inch (87 mm) mortar - ammunition from field guns (shell weight 16-20 Russian pounds, 6.55-8.19 kg), range 3-3.5 versta (3.2-3.73 km). The mortar was quite versatile, intended for fortress, siege, rifle (for rifle brigades in Siberia and Turkestan - this is how Central Asia, controlled by Russia, was called in Russia at that time), field and mountain artillery. Formally, the mortar was accepted into service, but in 1897 it was decided not to produce it.

4.2-inch (107 mm) light mortar - for fortress, rifle (for Siberia and Turkestan) and mountain artillery. The increased caliber, in theory, allowed to better fight against fortifications in Turkestan in the event of an uprising (these territories at that time were not yet completely subordinated to Russia). The experimental mountain mortar weighed about 200 kg without a carriage, and had a range of about 2 versta (2.13 km). The experimental fortress mortar was more powerful and had a range of about 4.5 versta (4.8 km) using brown powder. Due to low ballistics, 30-pound / 12.29-kg projectiles from field guns were not used, but lighter ones weighing about 10 kg.

4.2-inch field mortar L / 15 - something like a light howitzer, firing range of about 5.5 versta (5.87 km), carriage like the 87-mm gun mod. 1895. Transportation was carried out by six horses. Grand Duke Mikhail Nikolaevich wanted each division to have these guns in the fourth battery, then this would be 32 guns per corps of 2 divisions. In 1897, a prototype was manufactured with a range of about 6 versta (6.4 km), with recoil devices similar to the 76 mm gun model 1900.

4.8-inch (122 mm) mortar - projectile weight 1 pood / 16.38 kg, range about 4 versta (4.27 km). The mortar was intended for mountain artillery, Siberia, Turkestan and the Caucasus, the total requirement was more than 200 guns - but their production was abandoned.

6-inch (152 mm) field mortar - the only serial gun, was produced since 1883 or 1885, since 1895 the gun received a new carriage. The firing range for black powder was about 4 versta (4.27 km), for smokeless powder about 3.5 versta (3.73 km). At the same time, a new barrel for smokeless powder was developed, the firing range was about 5 versta (5.33 km), the Bange breech was used - but, for unknown reasons, the new barrel did not go into production, mortars continued to be produced in the 1890s and 1900s with the old barrel. It was supposed to have 12, 16 or 18 guns in each army corps.

6-inch fortress and siege mortar - also known as a 6-inch gun of 70 poods (barrel and breech 1147 kg), used two types of shells - for field warfare light 2-pood (32.76 kg) mortar with a range of about 6.5 versta (6.93 km), for siege warfare heavy 2.5-pood (40.95 kg) cannon with a range of about 6 versta (6.4 km). In this case, recoil devices were to be used like the Canet naval guns. Mortar regiments were to be armed with these guns, in fact, it was to be a good field and siege howitzer for that time, similar to the German 15 cm sFH 93 in ballistics, but much more rapid-fire. But something "strange" happened - instead of re-equipping 30 batteries (180 guns), the allocated money was spent on modernizing the hopelessly outdated bronze mortars of the 1867 model.

6-inch long-range mortar - something like a heavy howitzer, with a high (for a mortar) load on the projectile, it was supposed to use ammunition from 6-inch guns of 120 and 190 poods.

It was assumed that the "mortar regiment" would have the following composition options:
- 4 6-gun batteries with 6-inch guns of 70 poods, a total of 24 6-inch guns
- 2 6-gun batteries with 6-inch guns of 70 poods, 1 6-gun battery with 42-linear (107 mm) guns (it is known that a project was developed for the L/40 gun for smokeless powder and with recoil devices like the 75 mm Canet gun) and 1 4-gun battery with 8-inch (203 mm) mortars of 70 poods (I think, new mortars, not the old model 1877), a total of 12 6-inch guns, 6 42-linear guns and 4 8-inch mortars, a total of 22 guns
- 3 6-gun batteries with 6-inch guns of 70 poods, 1 6-gun battery with 42-line guns and 1 4-gun battery with 8-inch mortars of 70 poods, a total of 18 6-inch guns, 6 42-line guns and 4 8-inch mortars, a total of 28 guns.
- 2 6-gun batteries with 6-inch guns of 70 poods, 2 6-gun battery with 42-line guns and 1 4-gun battery with 8-inch mortars of 70 poods, a total of 12 6-inch guns, 12 42-line guns and 4 8-inch mortars, a total of 28 guns.
 
Last edited:
Part II, super heavy guns in 1890s - 1900s:

In the 1890s, it was assumed that it would be possible to use an 11-inch (280 mm) mortar or a 9-inch (229 mm) gun for transportation on regular highways, and a 280 mm gun for transportation on the special Decauville railway. It was supposed to buy a license for 13.5-inch (343 mm) guns in Britain or for 14-inch (356 mm) Krupp guns in Germany, and create single-caliber coastal mortars with them, which could be used, among other things, in siege artillery. However, the Obukhov plant was unable to manufacture a 13.5-inch gun, so 13.5-14 inch mortars were also abandoned at that time. In addition, guns using smokeless powder appeared at that time.

While the Obukhov plant was mastering the production of the 12-inch (305 mm) L/40 naval gun, the plant proposed to manufacture a 14-inch (356 mm) siege gun and a 14-inch mortar. The gun had a barrel weight of either 1,500 poods (24.57 tons, "light") or 2,100 poods (34.4 tons, "heavy"), the mortar had a barrel weight of 900 poods (14.74 tons) and a breech weight of 50 poods (819 kg). The projectile used weighed 31 poods (507.8 kg), according to my estimates, the speed should have been up to 1500 fps (457 mps) for a “light” gun, up to 1900 fps (579 mps) for a “heavy” gun, and up to 1000 fps (305 mps) for a mortar. The Artillery Committee considered this proposal for a long time, and in the end nothing was decided. In fact, the Russians lost some of the most powerful siege guns of the time because of this.

The same thing happened with the 10-inch (254 mm) long-range mortar, which was supposed to use 225 kg shells from 10-inch naval and coastal guns.
 
Part III, replacing old mortars and howitzers

In the 18th and first half of the 19th century, Russia had the following calibers of mortars and unicorns (long howitzers with a conical chamber):
1/4-pood / 4.8-inch / 122 mm
1/2-pood / 6-inch / 152 mm
1-pood / 7.715-inch / 196 mm
2-pood / 9.65-inch / 245 mm
3-pood / 10.75-inch / 273 mm
5-pood / 13.15-inch / 334 mm
9-pood / 15.2-inch / 386 mm
Ideologically, these old smoothbore guns were replaced by new, modern ones, with similar calibers:

1/4-pood / 4.8-inch / 122 mm:
- 4.8-inch "unicorn" of "short proportion" - howitzer L / 12, range of about 5 versta (5.33 km), hydraulic compressor, spring recuperator, carriage by six horses
- 4.8-inch "unicorn" of "long proportion" - howitzer L / 20, range of about 8 versta (8.54 km), carriage by eight horses, without shells in the limber

1/2-pounder / 6-inch / 152 mm:
- 6-inch "unicorn" of "short proportion" - L / 12, hydraulic compressor, spring recuperator
- 6-inch "unicorn" of "long proportion" - L / 20, hydraulic compressor, pneumatic recuperator

1-pood / 7.715-inch / 196 mm:
- 8-inch / 203 mm mortar with a mass of 60 poods (weight of the barrel with the breech 982.8 kg), range 4-5 versta (4.27-5.33 km)
- 8-inch heavy mortar
- 8-inch "unicorn" of "short proportion" - L/12
- 8-inch "unicorn" of "long proportion" - L/20

2-pood / 9.65-inch / 246 mm:
- 9-inch / 229-mm light mortar of 100 (actually 110) poods (1638-1802 kg) - something like a serial mortar of 108 poods for control of the Bosphorus (Russia had plans for the rapid capture of the strait in the 1890s), only with an increased firing range, with a Bange breech, hydraulic compressor and pneumatic recuperator
- 9-inch "lightweight" mortar / "unicorn" of "short proportion" of 200 poods (3276 kg), with a Bange breech, hydraulic compressor and pneumatic recuperator
- 9-inch coastal mortar / "unicorn" of "long proportion"
- 9-inch gun L/30

3-pood / 10.75-inch / 273-mm:
- 11-inch / 280-mm light mortar of 300 poods (4914 kg)
- 11-inch "unicorn" of 1000 poods (16.38 ton) - fixed carriage on concrete or wooden base, hydraulic cylinders for vertical guidance, electric drive for horizontal guidance, hydraulic compressor, pneumatic recuperator from 10-inch (254 mm) naval guns, electric telescopic ram, travel on the Decauville railway

5-pood / 13.15-inch / 334-mm:
- 13-inch / 330 mm mortar of 550 poods (9 ton), order was issued in 1904, later cancelled.
- 13-inch "unicorn" of 950 poods (15.56 ton) without breech, with breech a little more than 1000 poods (16.38 ton), order cancelles in 1905.

9-pood / 15.2-inch / 386 mm:
- 15-inch mortar of 1000 poods (16.38 ton), L/8. It was planned to make this mortar for the 200th anniversary of St. Petersburg (May 1703 - May 1903), but they did not have time to do it.
 
A general picture of what the Russian artillery should have looked like at the beginning of the Russo-Japanese War:
- New 3-inch / 76-mm guns completely replaced the old 87-mm
- Each division, in addition to 48 3-inch guns, has 16 42-line / 107-mm howitzers L / 15 or a smaller number of 48-line 122-mm howitzers L / 12
- Mobile siege artillery has a light triplex of a 6-inch gun, 42-line gun and 8-inch mortar, a heavy triplex of a 6-inch gun, 48-line gun and 8-inch howitzer, as well as relatively mobile 9-inch mortars
- Heavy and super-heavy siege artillery has various guns with a caliber from 9 to 15 inches, including 9-, 10- or 11-inch guns, 10-, 11-, 13- or 14-inch howitzers, 11-, 13-, 14- or 15-inch mortars.

In fact, such an artillery composition would look very good even by the standards of 1914. It is interesting that at that time Russia suffered in some places from excessive softness (in comparison with other powers) of tax policy and labor legislation, which reduced state profits and slowed down economic development; also, the government of Nicholas II in the 1890s and later did not use sufficiently large other opportunities for obtaining money (foreign loans, domestic loans).
 
Last edited:

The British 'Toffe-Apple' mortar is an interesting case, if I remember the story correctly the British entered WWI without any effective trench mortars and ended up raiding the patent office for something they could get into production quickly. Supposedly the patent used originated with Krupps.
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom