White Aircraft Co. Airplanes

[hesham]

Hi,

this company was formed in 1937 by Mr. G. Donald,and here is a picture
to its product,it was A-R amphibian,with high wing and three seat,powered
by one 165 Ranger engine.

There was also a Gull,it was modified from Argonaut,had a four-seat
and pusher engine also,so I am confuse in the picture,which one of
them ?.

Flying Magazine

books.google.com.eg

American airplanes: Wh - Wy

 

[Apophenia]

The White Gull amphibian was based on the longer-spanned 1934 Argonaut H-24 Pirate.

Work on the A-R amphibian began at LeRoy, NY's 'D.W.' airport in August 1938. Donald G. White hired Roscoe Turner to do publicity for his White Aircraft Corporation. "White acquired the assets of a few small aircraft companies". One of those was Ben Jones' S-125 (below).

Wings Over LeRoy: A History of the Donald Woodward Airport, LeRoy, New York, Brian J. Duddy, self-published, 2008, page 69

Could also include the 1937 Jones S-125 tandem 2-seat monoplane whose design Ben Jones sold to White Aircraft. The S-125 was Menasco C-4 powered and featured sliding canopies. There some speculation that the 'White S-125' prototype may have received a higher-powered Menasco engine.

Vintage Aviation vol 29, no 11, Nov 2001, page 6

Aerofiles also lists Jones Co's New Standard D-25, the Verville Sport Trainer AT biplane (which, as the White PT-7, was to be submitted to the CPTP as a primary trainer). Another was the Does anyone know if there were others?

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Apophenia,

about the Gull,it was never materialized.

Gull 1939 = 4pChwMAm; 160hp Menasco pusher. Design modified from Argonaut. POP: 1. Project was
shelved when a market failed to materialize.

 

[Apophenia]

hesham: Perhaps I misunderstood your question.

.. about the Gull,it was never materialized...

As a production aircraft, no. Aerofile's "POP: 1" refers to the Argonaut H-24 Pirate simply being rebranded as the White Gull. But was it really that simple? And did the Gull 'materialize' beyond a re-branding exercise?

There's plenty of confusion. Although not confirmed, White Aircraft may have acted on their plan to increased the Gull's power output. If Aerofiles is right, the H-24's original Menasco C-4 Pirate would be replaced in the Gull by a 160 hp 6-cylinder Menasco B6 [iBuccaneer[/i].

But the The Aircraft Yearbook 1939 has a photo caption (page 230, same image as yours) "powered by a Ranger engine" and text (page 413) mentioning a Ranger "6-410" for the White Gull. Beside your Flying Magazine ref, these are the only mentions that I've seen of a 'Ranger' powerplant for the Gull. How reliable the The Aircraft Yearbook series is as a source, I don't know.

Questions about the Howard Heindell-designed H-24 Pirate are another matter. Your image's caption notes "spruce, plywood, and fabric" construction For the record, E.R. Johnson's speculation in American Flying Boats and Amphibious Aircraft: An Illustrated History that the H-24 "structure appears to be a metal hull with fabric-covered wings and tail surfaces" is only partially correct. In fact, the entire structure was covered with doped fabric - including the H-24's plywood-covered, spruce-framed hull.


Images of the H-24 Pirate raise questions about just how close the relationship was between the Argonaut and the Gull. Have a glance at the attached photo and 3-view drawing purporting to show the sole H-24 prototype (reg. X15682). Now compare with that image of White Gull above. What are the differences?

I count the following:
- Tapered, cantilever wings versus H-24's parallel chord with bracing struts to pylon;
- Faired engine pylon versus engine-mounting struts;
- Reshaped cockpit canopy covering;
- Faired in tailfin (possibly with high-mounted stabilizers);
- Longer stabilizer bracing struts;
- Revised (or possibly just unfaired) main undercarriage legs; and
- Repositioned, more forward-placed tailwheel.

Source: Vintage Aircraft, vol 23, no 10, Oct 1995, page 8

That's quite a lot of changes for a simple 're-branding' exercise. (I note that the Gull is also missing its wing floats but presume those to be removable for purely land-based operations by this 'amphibion'.) What all of this signifies, I don't know. Any other opinions on connections between the H-24 and White Gull?

 

[rustythebailiff]

Can anyone tell me if White Aircraft was in operation after the war? I've been searching but can't find anything about them post 1944. I ask because my dad worked for them from 1950 for an unknown time, and I'd like to know what they were building about that time.

 

[hesham]

Can anyone tell me if White Aircraft was in operation after the war? I've been searching but can't find anything about them post 1944. I ask because my dad worked for them from 1950 for an unknown time, and I'd like to know what they were building about that time.

No it didn't,

1937: (Donald G) White Aircraft Co, Woodward Airport, Leroy NY. 1938: Acquisition of Jones Aircraft Co inventory, acquisition of Argonaut Inc. 1939: Purchased rights to Verville AT. 1940: White Aircraft Corp, Palmer MA. 1942: Converted to wartime troop glider component production; ended aircraft operations after WW2.

American airplanes: Wh - Wy

 

[Stargazer]

Can anyone tell me if White Aircraft was in operation after the war? I've been searching but can't find anything about them post 1944. I ask because my dad worked for them from 1950 for an unknown time, and I'd like to know what they were building about that time.

From my never-published website:

 

[Dynoman]

White Aircraft Company Tiger, September 28, 1939. Floyd Bennett Field, NY. This is believed to have been the rebuilt Jones S-125 after a crash of the aircraft on its first flight. The aircraft was sold to White, who modified the aircraft. The aircraft has the same registration number as Ben Jone's S-125 (NX16791).

 

[Stargazer]

White Aircraft Company Tiger, September 28, 1939. Floyd Bennett Field, NY.

Splendid!! Thank you so much for these beautiful photos!

 

[Dynoman]

The White Tiger alongside the Jones S-125. The resemblance can be seen and the Registration numbers on the Jones aircraft and the Tiger above.

 

[Dynoman]

WVAT-1 Advertisement

 

[Stargazer]

The White Tiger alongside the Jones S-125. The resemblance can be seen and the Registration numbers on the Jones aircraft and the Tiger above.

I can't decipher the registrations in the photos, but it would appear these are one and the same aircraft, right?

 

[Dynoman]

Yes, its hard to see the registration under the Tiger's wing, but it reads NX16791, which is the same as the Jones S-125.

 

[rustythebailiff]

No it didn't,

1937: (Donald G) White Aircraft Co, Woodward Airport, Leroy NY. 1938: Acquisition of Jones Aircraft Co inventory, acquisition of Argonaut Inc. 1939: Purchased rights to Verville AT. 1940: White Aircraft Corp, Palmer MA. 1942: Converted to wartime troop glider component production; ended aircraft operations after WW2.

American airplanes: Wh - Wy

Yeah, I saw that entry. It's strange, his records list the White Aircraft Corporation in 1950. The address listed was Palmer, Massachusetts. But I can't find a single reference to the company. I wonder if they switched over to making something else?

 

[Dynoman]

White may have subsidized their business with other products and lasted into the 1950s. Here is an ad for the company selling magnesium ladders. Also, here is a 1952 Palmer, Mass ad page in a book commemorating the history of the city with a donation from the White Aircraft Corporation.

 

[rustythebailiff]

White may have subsidized their business with other products and lasted into the 1950s. Here is an ad for the company selling magnesium ladders. Also, here is a 1952 Palmer, Mass ad page in a book commemorating the history of the city with a donation from the White Aircraft Corporation.

Interesting. As a mechanical engineer, I doubt he was involved in designing ladders
This just deepens the mystery.

 

[Stargazer]

Interesting. As a mechanical engineer, I doubt he was involved in designing ladders

Doesn't seem odd to me. I think a lot of military- or aviation-oriented companies changed their activity after the war in order not to close shop, building refrigerators and other stuff. Besides, it's not like White had a long tradition of designing and building aircraft. For the most part, they acquired aircraft built by others and put their name on them!

 

[Dynoman]

According to Wings Over Leroy, by Brian Duddy, said that White leased the airport in LeRoy beginning in May 1938. Duddy says there were news stories that the Chinese were interested in the White Tiger as a primary training aircraft as the Chinese were already at war with the Japanese. He says the Chinese deal fell through and the White Aircraft Company left LeRoy in 1940 and moved to Palmer, Massachusetts.

Another Picture of the White Tiger

 

[Arjen]

As a mechanical engineer, I doubt he was involved in designing ladders

BMW turned to producing pots, pans and bicycles after WW2. After struggling through the 1950s with motorbikes, the odd luxury car and bubble cars, BMW had a hit with the BMW 700 compact car. They haven't looked back since. And BMW has been making motorbikes for over a century now.

Sometimes just keeping at it pays off.

 

[Dynoman]

According to AAHS Journal Volume 12-13, 1967

After the White Aircraft Corporation left LeRoy, NY for Palmer, MA the company continue to make a limited production D-25 aircraft. White was also under contract at this time (1953) for the design of an Arctic building structure.

Also, according to the Statistical Study of US Civil Aviation 1952, the White Aircraft Corporation produced two D-25s. Believed to be built for the Department of Agriculture.

 

[Dynoman]

White Aircraft Corporation also design carpet sweepers. Also a White Aircraft Corp. temporary employee badge.