What if - US Acquires an Su-57?

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Wallmart Republic said:
As opposed to what, some obscure committee's imagination?
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My favourite aircraft is the Throatwarbler. You know what I mean, right? I mean, we can just make up names for things nowadays.

Actually, it's much easier to use the names everyone knows, not the ones you made up in your head.
 
A troll managing to drag this thread this far is quite an achievement.

Back to topic.
My proposal:
- Putin sends a Felon into the far West, maybe Belarus, for a photoshot, like that T-14 fake deployment.
- Some random people got it on camera and decided to post it on Telegram.
- Words spread around and a dozen NAFO got wind of it.
- Next day news report that Baranovichi base got bombed by terrorists (insert secret NATO mercenaries screeching) and the Su-57 is missing.
- A week later Twitter blown up after a Su-57 is shot parked at a truck stop in Louisiana.
Alternatively, Ukrainian SOFs and their secret cells fly in an UAV, bomb Kremlin again, and take advantage of the confusion to steal a Su-57. Given Russian incompetence so far, the possibilities are endless.
 
Scott Kenny said:
The name half the world uses when referring to the Su57?
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The opaque octogenarian committee represents only itself and those financing it. It does not make decisions for me, and certainly not half the world.
asVAL said:
My proposal:
- Putin sends a Felon into the far West, maybe Belarus, for a photoshot, like that T-14 fake deployment.
- Some random people got it on camera and decided to post it on Telegram.
- Words spread around and a dozen NAFO got wind of it.
- Next day news report that Baranovichi base got bombed by terrorists (insert secret NATO mercenaries screeching) and the Su-57 is missing.
- A week later Twitter blown up after a Su-57 is shot parked at a truck stop in Louisiana.
Alternatively, Ukrainian SOFs and their secret cells fly in an UAV, bomb Kremlin again, and take advantage of the confusion to steal a Su-57. Given Russian incompetence so far, the possibilities are endless.
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You should apply to Tom Clancy to get published. We are in need of talent of this caliber.
 
asVAL said:
A troll managing to drag this thread this far is quite an achievement.

Back to topic.
My proposal:
- Putin sends a Felon into the far West, maybe Belarus, for a photoshot, like that T-14 fake deployment.
- Some random people got it on camera and decided to post it on Telegram.
- Words spread around and a dozen NAFO got wind of it.
- Next day news report that Baranovichi base got bombed by terrorists (insert secret NATO mercenaries screeching) and the Su-57 is missing.
- A week later Twitter blown up after a Su-57 is shot parked at a truck stop in Louisiana.
Alternatively, Ukrainian SOFs and their secret cells fly in an UAV, bomb Kremlin again, and take advantage of the confusion to steal a Su-57. Given Russian incompetence so far, the possibilities are endless.
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Thank you for actually contributing.
 
Ok, so first, guys can we PLEASE stop feeding the toll?

Second, to answer your question @Ninja the most likely way to get our hands on a Felon is either through a defection, or taking advantage of the rampant corruption in Russia and just straight up buying one from an airbase Commander who really wants a new dacha.

What we do with it after? First, it's getting taken apart to document EVERYTHING. What it's built with, how it was put together, how much each and every component weighs down to the gram, etc. Then it's getting put back together and put on an RCS test rig to validate exactly just how stealth it is (current estimates are, "not very," roughly in line with a clean Super Bug). After that, it's getting flown. A lot. Both by itself to find out exactly what it can and cannot do in the air, and with other fighters to pit them against each other and see how best to counter it if it's ever encountered on a "for real" mission.

Once all that's done, it's going to be pushed into a hanger and kept there under guard. It will only be brought out occasionally when it's needed to provide a graduate level course in Basic Fighter Maneuvers to let some of the top USAF, USN and USMC pilots find out what it's really like to go up against the "no shit, real thing."
 
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SSgtC said:
Second, to answer your question @Ninja the most likely way to get our hands on a Felon is either through a defection, or taking advantage of the rampant corruption in Russia and just straight up buying one from an airbase Commander who really wants a new dacha.

What we do with it after? First, it's getting taken apart to document EVERYTHING. What it's built with, how it was put together, how much each and every component weighs down to the gram, etc. Then it's getting put back together and put on an RCS test rig to validate exactly just how stealth it is (current estimates are, "not very," roughly in line with a clean Super Bug). After that, it's getting flown. A lot. Both by itself to find out exactly what it can and cannot do in the air, and with other fighters to pit them against each other and see how best to counter it if it's ever encountered on a "for real" mission.

Once all that's done, it's going to be pushed into a hanger and kept there under guard. It will only be brought out occasionally when it's needed to provide a graduate level course in Basic Fighter Maneuvers to let some of the top USAF, USN and USMC pilots find out what it's really like to go up against the "no shit, real thing."
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I'd actually suspect that it'd go on the RCS test rig first, then get disassembled. And maybe put back on the RCS rig once reassembled, as I expect the US folks to build to a much higher surface finish standard.
 
Scott Kenny said:
I'd actually suspect that it'd go on the RCS test rig first, then get disassembled. And maybe put back on the RCS rig once reassembled, as I expect the US folks to build to a much higher surface finish standard.
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It could go either way. I put it in the order I did because the military is going to want to get as much information as they can about its internals as possible. And they likely won't want to risk damage until that's done.

There are also two other reasons I think it will go disassemble first. First, the US likes to handicap itself in things like war games by assuming its enemies are both smart and competent (its why some war games showed high six figure casualties for Gulf War I). So they're going to assume that Russia is capable of building a Felon to the same high finish standards as we are. Because that would be the worst case to face.

And secondly, modern computers and programs could probably give you a fairly accurate estimate of the plane's stealth without needing much more than some basic measurements and angles. So you can still get pretty good data without risking breaking something important before you get a chance to study it.
 
3D scan would do that with an STL file or whatever they use instead of that format. Agree they would disassemble anyway because they can assess nuances of construction methodology and glues/coating on skin etc.
 
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Rumours have been circulating for a while that the Algerians are going to buy around 14 Su-57s, alongside some Su-34s. While this is unlikely to ever happen, due to both the ongoing situation in Ukraine, as well as the extremely slow progress of the Su-57 program, it could be a possibility worth entertaining. It's possible that a Belenko situation could occur, and it would be much easier, as there are NATO bases in the region. Or, someone in the CIA or MI6 could try to bribe a pilot, or even the Algerian authorities to covertly send one or two over. Money talks after all.

Additionally, we could go for the UK route which was pretending to be Morocco and purchase a bunch of T-80s from Russia in the 90's. It's not hard to imagine such a thing to occur, with a big financial reward for any nation willing to help out. The same could be done with let's say, Pakistan and their J-10 and in the future, maybe even J-20.
 
Of course US want Su-57 if it can get it, unlikely as it is. The Su-57 directly counters the F-22 and F-35 and the so-called NGAD and early retirement of Raptor speaks volumes about the effectiveness of the counter, it’s a quantum leap in performance and sensor diversity.
 
EricChase88 said:
Of course US want Su-57 if it can get it, unlikely as it is. The Su-57 directly counters the F-22 and F-35 and the so-called NGAD and early retirement of Raptor speaks volumes about the effectiveness of the counter, it’s a quantum leap in performance and sensor diversity.
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Thank you for that. I needed a good laugh today.
 
Be more likely to see Russia or China getting hold of an F-35 than the postulated US. nabbing an Su.57 !
(Admittedly I grew out of overly belligerant cold war technothrillers like Firefox and its ilk by late 80's) :)
 
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EricChase88 said:
Of course US want Su-57 if it can get it, unlikely as it is. The Su-57 directly counters the F-22 and F-35 and the so-called NGAD and early retirement of Raptor speaks volumes about the effectiveness of the counter, it’s a quantum leap in performance and sensor diversity.
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Ah...the good old Science Fiction.
 
archipeppe said:
Ah...the good old Science Fiction.
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It's not. And it's a disgrace that anyone willing to speak truthfully about the Su-57 is just banned.

The Su-57 is a faster, more maneuverable fighter than the best that the US has to offer, the F-22, so of course the US wants a Su-57 if it can get its hands on one. Over 20 years newer electronics in radar and other sensors.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758204393302683821
View: https://twitter.com/ErenCCCP/status/1758204393302683821/photo/1
 
EricChase88 said:
It's not. And it's a disgrace that anyone willing to speak truthfully about the Su-57 is just banned.

The Su-57 is a faster, more maneuverable fighter than the best that the US has to offer, the F-22, so of course the US wants a Su-57 if it can get its hands on one. Over 20 years newer electronics in radar and other sensors.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758204393302683821
View: https://twitter.com/ErenCCCP/status/1758204393302683821/photo/1
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Tell me you don't have a clue about modem airal combat without telling me you don't have a clue
 
EricChase88 said:
It's not. And it's a disgrace that anyone willing to speak truthfully about the Su-57 is just banned.

The Su-57 is a faster, more maneuverable fighter than the best that the US has to offer, the F-22, so of course the US wants a Su-57 if it can get its hands on one. Over 20 years newer electronics in radar and other sensors.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758204393302683821
View: https://twitter.com/ErenCCCP/status/1758204393302683821/photo/1
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Another candidate for the ignore list.
 
I think we'd be thrilled to have an Su-57 to evaluate. Why would that be controversial? Why wouldn't we want to learn what capabilities were up against? I don't think we'd learn a whole lot of groundbreaking technology, however, if that is the angle being sold here.
And while I'm at it, I actually don't think cheap, fast, long-range, and maneuverable is a bad direction even at the cost of stealth, though that is anathema to US procurement for the last several decades.

Germans has all sorts of highly advanced military equipment at sea, aground and in the air that they couldn't produce in enough numbers of to ultimately make and the difference against a horde of Shermans, cheap destroyers, Hurricanes, etc.
 
_Del_ said:
Germans has all sorts of highly advanced military equipment at sea, aground and in the air that they couldn't produce in enough numbers of to ultimately make and the difference against a horde of Shermans, cheap destroyers, Hurricanes, etc.
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I need to push back a little here. The Sherman, while not as good as say a Panther or Tiger tank, was still a very good design that was qualitatively superior to the Panzer IIIs, IVs, and StuG IIIs that made up the bulk of the German armored forces. And it was adequate against the heavier units since they were often engaging them with between 3 and 5-1 odds.

The destroyers were far from cheap either. Just because the US could build a destroyer in a few weeks didn't make it cheap. If anything, the Fletcher, Sumner, and Gearing classes are ranked among the best of the WWII era. Hell, the USN had Gearing class ships in commission until 1983. And several of the class lasted until the 2000s in foreign service.

And the Hurricane wasn't kept as a front line fighter throughout the war. It was progressively moved to lower threat theaters or into a ground attack role. It was replaced by more and more capable aircraft.
 
EricChase88 said:
It's not. And it's a disgrace that anyone willing to speak truthfully about the Su-57 is just banned.

The Su-57 is a faster, more maneuverable fighter than the best that the US has to offer, the F-22,
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Have you any proof to back up either of your claims here?
 
The bulk of the British destroyers in the U- boat campaign were not Fletcher class destroyers. They were Flower Corvettes or Hunt class cheap and rapidly built or older destroyers adapted for A/S duty.

Hurricanes were the bulk of the RAF fighting force during the Battle of Britain.

The Shermans had a quantitative advantage, not a qualitative one (excepting the obvious Panzer III). StuG III isn't even a tank. British Fireflies did alright. It wasn't until late (mid-1944) that US Shermans got up gunned with 76mm to hold it's own with a IV. It was cheap, mobile, didn't break down, and was easy to repair in the field. That's what made it great. Not some giant qualitative advantage over armor or weaponry of Panzer contemporaries. The whole of the Africa campaign was fought with early Shermans, for example.
 
Sadly the proof will come when Israeli F35s meet Iranian or Syrian Su 57s just as F4s meet Mig 23s in earlier wars.
 
EricChase88 said:
Over 20 years newer electronics in radar and other sensors
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Not necessarily.

First of all avionics is the most difficult (and expensive) components of the modern warfare.
Second, Russian electronics is heavily depending on Western's one (especially American), frankly I don't see how Sukhoj (or any other OKB) could manage to have better performance on what is onboard of the various F-22A and F-35s....
 
EricChase88 said:
It's not. And it's a disgrace that anyone willing to speak truthfully about the Su-57 is just banned.

The Su-57 is a faster, more maneuverable fighter than the best that the US has to offer, the F-22, so of course the US wants a Su-57 if it can get its hands on one. Over 20 years newer electronics in radar and other sensors.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758204393302683821
View: https://twitter.com/ErenCCCP/status/1758204393302683821/photo/1
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1. As noted by other contributors it’s clearly not the truth.

2. As indicate by your response you don’t appear to be banned.

Best of luck as you keep chasing those rainbows.
 
There are several critical parameters that we cannot compare, RCS, limitations of construction materials, characteristics of radars and counteraction systems. But we can compare the aerodynamic characteristics with a sufficient degree of reliability.
And it's not very smart to expect a third-generation fighter (MiG-23) to defeat a fourth-generation fighter (F-15) in a one-on-one battle.

Air-to-air combat effectiveness:
MiG-23ML - 0.463
F-15C/D - 0.835
almost double the advantage
 
archipeppe said:
Not necessarily.

First of all avionics is the most difficult (and expensive) components of the modern warfare.
Second, Russian electronics is heavily depending on Western's one (especially American), frankly I don't see how Sukhoj (or any other OKB) could manage to have better performance on what is onboard of the various F-22A and F-35s....
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I honestly think that you overestimate the US lead in avionics. After all the AESA radar and solid state antennas are the high technology of the 1980s (1990s if you count GaN). There are like a dozen countries that can make them. There was plenty of time to catch up.
Otherwise I suspect if the Americans examined a Su-57, they'd see that its sensors and avionics are a lot closer in capability to their own stuff than they'd anticipated - and it contains a lot more Western tech than they'd like. After all, jet planes are a low volume item - no matter what sanctions they come up with, with the entire projected production run's worth of advanced processors couldn't be more than a couple of thousand items - that would comfortably fit in a car's trunk.

And I feel like the pace of technology development outside of the silicon realm has slowed A LOT - not sure how much a US materials scientist of today could surprise his colleague of 40 years ago, who worked on the F-22.
 
EricChase88 said:
It's not. And it's a disgrace that anyone willing to speak truthfully about the Su-57 is just banned.

The Su-57 is a faster, more maneuverable fighter than the best that the US has to offer, the F-22, so of course the US wants a Su-57 if it can get its hands on one. Over 20 years newer electronics in radar and other sensors.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1758204393302683821
View: https://twitter.com/ErenCCCP/status/1758204393302683821/photo/1
Click to expand...
Lol. LMAO, even.

Come back when you can find a source that isn't lying out of its ass about the APG-77.
 
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