What if - US Acquires an Su-57?

[Ninja]

Just want to speculate if this scenario were to ever happen. Lets just say it goes like this:

>Russia has SU-57's statiotened at an airbase
>Ukraine keeps pushing and reclaiming territory, they eventually reach the air base, and before everything is set on fire...
>Some US contact (perhaps AF?) tells them to not touch the SU-57's
>Within days, an plan is made to acquire one of those precious stealth jets, and it happens
>The SU-57 makes it to American territory, now what? Most likely, it is studied at Groom Lake

Let me know what you think would happen or how it even goes down.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

more likely scenario is recovery of an Su-57 wreck from a crash site in Syria or Ukraine or a defector bringing one while eascaping.

I'm not sure where you expect the topic to go, however.

 

[MrPhantomMan]

I think you've outlined what would happen basically.

 

[Ninja]

I think you've outlined what would happen basically.

Im new to this so I thought I would have been leaving out some stuff. But if there would be more to it, feel free to contribute

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC) (formerly the USAF FTD (Foreign Technology Division) would probably be in charge of analysis of the aircraft.

 

[MrPhantomMan]

Im new to this so I thought I would have been leaving out some stuff. But if there would be more to it, feel free to contribute

No I'm saying you've covered the basics from what I can tell. It's not rocket science really. The creative parts are generally getting the aircraft itself from what I can tell.

 

[Ninja]

No I'm saying you've covered the basics from what I can tell. It's not rocket science really. The creative parts are generally getting the aircraft itself from what I can tell.

May I ask how the US even acquires aircraft like that? Im aware of one method, that being from Soviet defectors/pilots.

 

[paralay]

Life in Russia has better prospects than in the West. You can't buy fools for fancy pants now
But the reverse situation is becoming more real...

 

[Orionblamblam]

Life in Russia has better prospects than in the West.

Are you sure about that?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730212486626820389

View: https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1730212486626820389

 

[Orionblamblam]

May I ask how the US even acquires aircraft like that? Im aware of one method, that being from Soviet defectors/pilots.

Simply stealing them is an option. Not always by means of sending in Mitchell Gant to steal one openly, but by paying off the guards to look the other way for a few minutes, or hijacking or bribing a truck hauling one. The options are wide open when you're dealing with a country rife with corruption. it would be a lot easier if the targeted aircraft is actually in service and manufactured in some numbers, which is not the case for the SU-57.

 

[Foo Fighter]

It is 'possible' for a pilot to smell the coffee and decide to head for a better personal pension and dental care.

S/HE might notice how life in the proletariat is degrading his/her future options as happened before, One Viktor Balenko, I believe. so far from being impossible.

RIP, Viktor. September 24, 2023 (aged 76)

Viktor Belenko - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[F-2]

They already acquired a fairly intact Su-35 wreck. From what I gather EW stuff was their biggest interest and it seems that’s answered.

 

[TMA1]

Note what seem to be new EW pods on the newest su-35 that rolled out recently.

Also though we have many blessings still here in America it is not what it once was a few decades back. The debt that has built up to maintain our levels of comfort doesnt come from nothing. We are already seeing the handwriting on the wall imo. I think ruskie pilots are aware that quality of life is not so dramatically different that they would make such a risky move and also I do not think even left leaning pilots are too keen on our goofy current forms of leftism. And on top or this the Putin regime is not nearly as ideologically bent as old soviet Russia was and there is not as great a risk of people fleeing it as during soviet times. Most of those fleeing seem to be of certain ethnic groups with grievances or pink haired student types.

Honestly I think there is as much a danger of an f-35 getting to China as an su-57 flying to a nato country. We as well as the Russians and Chinese make very sure the people piloting the aircraft are not loose cannons or are blackmailable or whatever.

Edit: added images for reference.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Honestly I think there is as much a danger of an f-35 getting to China as an su-57 flying to a nato country.

There are less than two dozen SU-57s. There are nearly a thousand F-35s. All the SU-57's are held by the Russians. The F-35 is used by a number of countries. The F-35 *should* be far more "accessible" than the SU-57.

We as well as the Russians and Chinese make very sure the people piloting the aircraft are not loose cannons or are blackmailable or whatever.

Edit: added images for reference.

 

[Avimimus]

I suddenly have this urge to watch Firefox.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I suddenly have this urge to watch Firefox.

Under rated flick, and one of the few that I'd wholeheartedly support a "special edition" with the "flying scenes" redone with modern CGI.

The full scale "mockup" kicked substantial ass. The model scenes, though, are pretty lame.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

There are less than two dozen SU-57s. There are nearly a thousand F-35s.

And how many production blocks are duds that were never meant to see combat in a million years? The United States is already desperate to offload hundreds of non-operational F-35s. They could either arm-twist satellite regimes to cover the loss for them, or place them as gate guards in front of fast foods, stadiums and highway junctions to patriotically warn against both obesity and corruption in a single stroke.

It is 'possible' for a pilot to smell the coffee and decide to head for a better personal pension and dental care.

Pensions are unAmerican, instead seniors are bidden to gamble in Las Vegas slot machines to cover the pharaonic "costs" of basic dental care. Small wonder the medical tourist caravan assails Canada and Mexico each season to escape the medieval conditions at home.

 

[GTX]

The United States is already desperate to offload hundreds of non-operational F-35s. They could either arm-twist satellite regimes to cover the loss for them, or place them as gate guards in front of fast foods, stadiums and highway junctions to patriotically warn against both obesity and corruption in a single stroke.

Rubbish! I challenge you to provide any sort of evidence.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

Rubbish! I challenge you to provide any sort of evidence.

We are, uhh, training... and like... simulating extremely maneouvrable supercruising tragets of the fifth generation that can also carry long range cruise missiles internally. Nothing to see here, all is according to plan!

 

[GTX]

What the?? Where is your evidence to back up your claim the the United States is already desperate to offload hundreds of non-operational F-35s and so forth??

 

[Foo Fighter]

It's all in the Putin manual for subversion and misinformation. Leading to the Pulizer prize and cheaper vodka shots.

That and the Cornflakes packet decoder ring manual.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

Where is your evidence to back up your claim the the United States is already desperate to offload hundreds of non-operational F-35s and so forth??

The fates have not been kind. After years of deriding the Su-35S and bragging about imminently fielding an all-fifth generation air force, we now find ourselves in a timeline where the archaic F-15 program was urgently resuscitated from beyond the grave in the form of EX (which hilariously, they claim is an equal to the Flatfish) and the F-16s are still flying just fine and bearing the brunt of operational tasks. After three decades or so, they still have not been replaced by a superior platform as was originally envisioned. Which leaves the F-35s to fly over super bowl games or something.

 

[Foo Fighter]

I believe they are pinning a lot on the B-21 and NGAD programs to offset any percieved leveling of the playing field.

 

[Desertfox]

So... the F-35 selling like hotcakes is evidence its a terrible aircraft!? Ive seen bad takes before, but this one takes the cake.

The US has its issues but last time I went to Russia it was most certainly no utopia and that was before they invaded Ukraine. You couldn't pay me enough to move there.

 

[GTX]

The fates have not been kind. After years of deriding the Su-35S and bragging about imminently fielding an all-fifth generation air force, we now find ourselves in a timeline where the archaic F-15 program was urgently resuscitated from beyond the grave in the form of EX (which hilariously, they claim is an equal to the Flatfish) and the F-16s are still flying just fine and bearing the brunt of operational tasks. After three decades or so, they still have not been replaced by a superior platform as was originally envisioned. Which leaves the F-35s to fly over super bowl games or something.

So no evidence which isn't surprising given the US Military is still committed to buying F-35s (probably at least another 2000) along with their allies. Seems like you are either delusional or just a troll.

 

[Orionblamblam]

After three decades or so, they still have not been replaced by a superior platform as was originally envisioned.

Fifth-gen costs a lot. Fourth gen, which is adequate for taking on second and third tier opponents, costs a lot less.

And there's the not unreasonable issue that the more types you have, the less likely that a production flaw or suddenly discovered design error will shut down your entire capability. Unlike with humans, when it comes to military technology, diversity really is our strength.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

So... the F-35 selling like hotcakes is evidence its a terrible aircraft!?

Pray tell, why was CAATSA required to sell the aforementioned hotcakes? Everyone wants it of course, as long as the whip keeps spinning above their heads.

So no evidence which isn't surprising given the US Military is still committed to buying F-35s (probably at least another 2000) along with their allies.

The fact that US sixth gen requirements closely delineate a capability similar to that of the Flatfish tells me otherwise. In case you didn't notice, the war of the ages over in ukriinya is unfolding without the F-35 being present. I say, offload the entire production run there to deliver a powerful subsonic message to putty.

Seems like you are either delusional or just a troll.

Please do not resort to base personal attacks against a humble concerned citizen such as myself. I had high hopes this forum would provide a venue for civilized, cool-headed discussion, not a parody of F16.net skinheads. I still require evidence of the F-35's miraculous capabilities that were trumpeted by Lockheed to anyone who would hear. Corporate welfare production and purchases under duress are hardly convincing.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

Fifth-gen costs a lot. Fourth gen, which is adequate for taking on second and third tier opponents, costs a lot less.

The US is not bound by any such limitation, being at the helm of a ponzi currency that it can print to its heart's content. The technical failure of the F-35 cannot be mitigated by any amount of financial resources. It is simply not the high performance plane that would enter service in numbers that was promised. And now the dear allies need to subsidize this dud indefinitely in order to prove their loyalty.

And there's the not unreasonable issue that the more types you have, the less likely that a production flaw or suddenly discovered design error will shut down your entire capability.

So now the goalposts have moved once again and the entire rationale behind the F-35 program (i.e. versatility and affordability) is casually dismissed with a straight face?

 

[Desertfox]

Last I checked the F-35 is both quite versatile and surprisingly affordable. The F-15EX being bought mostly because we can't produce enough F-35's fast enough to replace the rapidly aging fleet of F-15C/D's.

As for Ukraine, not like there are ANY western fighters flying over there.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Just want to speculate if this scenario were to ever happen. Lets just say it goes like this:

>Russia has SU-57's statiotened at an airbase
>Ukraine keeps pushing and reclaiming territory, they eventually reach the air base, and before everything is set on fire...
>Some US contact (perhaps AF?) tells them to not touch the SU-57's
>Within days, an plan is made to acquire one of those precious stealth jets, and it happens
>The SU-57 makes it to American territory, now what? Most likely, it is studied at Groom Lake

Let me know what you think would happen or how it even goes down.

I'd suspect that the captured Su-57 would have to be inoperable, else the Russians would have just flown it out.

So the first trick would be fixing said Su57 to flying condition, assuming that the US wanted to fly it.

Otherwise, it's going to be the EW systems and sticking the Su57 onto an RCS test rig that the USAF cares about the most.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The technical failure of the F-35 ...

Ah, I see. You're from an alternate reality.

 

[F-2]

F-35 Performance seems good to me. It’s already the second most numerous Type in the USAF.

 

[Ninja]

Ah, I see. You're from an alternate reality.

Pretty sure he's refering to past issues that the F-35 has had.

 

[MrPhantomMan]

May I ask how the US even acquires aircraft like that? Im aware of one method, that being from Soviet defectors/pilots.

You're really only limited by imagination here.

Some Cold War examples off the top of my head:
-Buying them from client states who either had no use for them anymore or were getting an incentive to do (MiG23s, 17s, 21s, 29s)
-Crash recoveries like this (https://www.easydive24.de/scuba_diving_28.html) or Operation MOUNT HOPE III. There are teams that go around and do this sort of thing.
- Defectors like you say
-Temporary borrowing. I recall reading in a book once incident where an aircraft (not sure which type) was crated up in Eastern Europe, put on a train to the West, examined (doubtful it was flown) then packed up again and sent back.

So yeah, if you think of a way it could happen it's certainly possible.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The fates have not been kind. After years of deriding the Su-35S and bragging about imminently fielding an all-fifth generation air force, we now find ourselves in a timeline where the archaic F-15 program was urgently resuscitated from beyond the grave in the form of EX (which hilariously, they claim is an equal to the Flatfish)

What exactly is a Flatfish? Did you mean Su-57 FELON?

Pray tell, why was CAATSA required to sell the aforementioned hotcakes? Everyone wants it of course, as long as the whip keeps spinning above their heads.

Yep, all those F-35 customers were desperate to buy Su-57 until foiled by those evil Americans and their CAATSA,

The fact that US sixth gen requirements closely delineate a capability similar to that of the Flatfish tells me otherwise. In case you didn't notice, the war of the ages over in ukriinya is unfolding without the F-35 being present. I say, offload the entire production run there to deliver a powerful subsonic message to putty.

Again, what exactly is a Flatfish?

How should F-35 be in Ukraine? Direct US military intervention?

Please do not resort to base personal attacks against a humble concerned citizen such as myself. I had high hopes this forum would provide a venue for civilized, cool-headed discussion, not a parody of F16.net skinheads. I still require evidence of the F-35's miraculous capabilities that were trumpeted by Lockheed to anyone who would hear. Corporate welfare production and purchases under duress are hardly convincing.

What, exactly, would you count as evidence of its capabilities? Do you need to test its stealth capabilities in person?

Not the sales to many countries who - presumably, in your opinion - somehow bought an aircraft that doesn't deliver its promised capabilities but either don't understand, don't care about it or are too cowed by the US to tell anyone.

Uneducated, useless Air Forces like the Israeli Air Force and RAF for example.

 

[quellish]

he fact that US sixth gen requirements closely delineate a capability similar to that of the Flatfish

Oh really? I recently asked the Joint Staff for a copy of those requirements. They have been reluctant to provide them, risking an expensive lawsuit in doing so.

How did you get a copy?

 

[Wallmart Republic]

What exactly is a Flatfish? Did you mean Su-57 FELON?

Yes, that would be the Flatfish, the one and only.

Yep, all those F-35 customers were desperate to buy Su-57 until foiled by those evil Americans and their CAATSA,

One can only guess the utter desperation that led to the adoption of a not-so-subtle anti-competition monopoly act, by the very same frauds who proclaimed themselves apostles of the free market, no less. A poetic irony.

What, exactly, would you count as evidence of its capabilities? Do you need to test its stealth capabilities in person?

The modern battlefield would test them well enough. It should enter the fray and make history, or die trying. I'm tired of the endless scripted simulations and war games conducted for no other reason than special interests patting themselves on the back.

Uneducated, useless Air Forces like the Israeli Air Force and RAF for example.

Neither exactly enjoy the luxury of choice and can only make do with whatever the big brother has to offer at the moment. The japs and south koreans made a commendable effort to escape the F-35's kiss of death, however they erred when replicating the known flaws of both the raptor and brando / lightning II.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yes, that would be the Flatfish, the one and only.

Only in your imagination.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Yes, that would be the Flatfish, the one and only.

Sukhoi doesn't call it that in Russian, nor does NATO call it that.

Communication requires both parties to have the same meanings attached to words.

 

[Wallmart Republic]

Only in your imagination.

As opposed to what, some obscure committee's imagination?