Westland WG.44 - WG.47 1980s stealth helicopter projects

[Bazinga]

A Westland pre-feasibility study for the UK 1980s attack helicopter, via @GbhvfRon on Twitter.

From Paul Chapman today

Yes....The drawing was done by John Jupe some time after 1984 (because that was when I joined the Westlands FPO). John had been the Head of the FPO previously but was shaking up to retirement so he had some sort of 'special merit' position. Anyway he was, at that time, interested in computer generated perspective drawings and so took this old project scheme and generated the drawing. We shared an office so it was an interesting development to watch and, being in the mid 1980s, rendering and sun positioning for the shadows was a new game. Of course John wrote all the development code himself but that was what we were all doing although my bit was the design optimisation stuff. As for the co-ax....I think it was from the 1970s and before my time. Later on when I became the HoFP I tried to bring the WG projects together into a referenceable file. We had a lot of big drawings but the supporting documentation was pretty scattered and I don't think the project files had survived. At one point in the 1990s there was an edict to shred anything that was not covered by contract so a lot was lost....although I don't like being edicted to so various interesting things like the WG file were preserved. I left Westlands for a sabbatical year at Filton in '97. In fact they asked me to return but when I got back most of the previously saved stuff was gone. Then, four years later, we were shut down and that was that! Maybe the Helicopter Museum at Weston Super Mare has the residue.........


.........I think it must have had a W.G number (Westland Group). We were often a bit lax about the numbering since the FPO was always being pressed. Sometimes something that was a doodle would spring to life for no apparent reason or you might have to generate a range of possible options where one would be much more developed than the others. This was probably the case in respect of John's co-ax as there would likely to have been the co-ax, conventional, stopped rotor and maybe his infamous supersonic rotor all within one research exercise. A lot of our work was linked to supporting new technologies, for example in the 1990s I was mostly working in the +15/20 year timeframe although there would be the odd exercise to support new engineering projects like the Canadian EH101 SAR. And then there were the Future Lynx studies that probably helped to keep things running pre-Wildcat.

Facebook Groups

British Aircraft of Prototype / Experimental and Proposed Designs Only. has 1,034 members. Requests to join will only be considered if membership questions are answered, you have a profile photo and...

www.facebook.com

 

[fightingirish]

JAH: Westland and the Attack Helicopter - From Lynx to Apache
Research paper published in The Journal of Aeronautical History by Dr R V Smith FRAeS and J P Graham FRAeS on Westland and the Attack Helicopter - from Lynx to Apache.

In July 1995, Britain selected the AH-64D Apache as the Attack Helicopter for the Army Air Corps. Prior to this, there had been sustained activity, involving Westland Helicopters Ltd (WHL), the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE)/Defence Experimental & Research Agency (DERA), Defence Science & Technology Laboratory (DSTL), Future Systems (Rotary Wing) (FS(RW)) and MoD Operational Requirements (OR) staff, to examine UK options for the provision of national and international collaborative attack helicopter solutions.

Much of that work has never been reviewed publicly and, despite not resulting in a successful product, the solutions examined contained innovative technologies and design approaches. Some of these features are only now emerging in programmes elsewhere, such as the American Future Attack Reconnaissance Aircraft (FARA) programme.

This paper examines these projects, from Armed Escort Lynx and P277 through to Westland WG.47, summarising their origins, requirements and underlying technologies, to record the efforts, mainly conducted by the Future Projects and Advanced Technology Departments within Westland Helicopters Ltd.

Dr R V Smith FRAeS and J P Graham FRAeS
31 October 2020

Paper 2020-05 Westland and the Attack Helicopters - From Lynx to Apache.pdf

Source: https://www.aerosociety.com/publications/jah-westland-and-the-attack-helicopter-from-lynx-to-apache/

 

[yasotay]

@fightingirish - What I love about this site. Every once in a while a true diamond shows up. Thank you Sir! I shall put this into an official folder and look engrossed in very important work tomorrow at the office. I won't even be lying when I tell them I am reading on some helicopter technology.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Nice! Tony Buttler sent me the link and I posted it in "Bookshelf and Marketplace" - its a very good detailed article, 83 pages long.

 

[fightingirish]

[...]What I love about this site. Every once in a while a true diamond shows up. Thank you Sir! I shall put this into an official folder and look engrossed in very important work tomorrow at the office. I won't even be lying when I tell them I am reading on some helicopter technology.

Hi folks, thanks for the warm words and thumbs up, but IMHO the authors Dr. Smith and Mr. Graham at the Royal Aero Society really deserve this gesture, since I'm just a messenger.

 

[Tom Bee]

John Jupe was my grandfather and I was very moved to read this piece. It's really a very distant memory for me, given that I was just eight years old through most of 1984, but I am sure I remember being blown away by sketched drawings of a twin rotor design that somewhat resembled the Ka52 Alligator the Russians currently fly. I cannot comment on John's professional skills due to lack of knowledge, but I can confidently state that he was the best draughtsman I ever met personally and definitely the only person who ever gave me a 27H pencil. RIP John Jupe, you have my unending respect and gratitude.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

@Tom Bee - thanks for registering to post this message. It's always good when we can provide some information to a relative about the work their engineer ancestor did, as often they were unable to tell their family at the time.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I don't see the "Anti-Glint" cockpits lasting, field of view is terrible. Just doing a simple flat canopy like the US Army Cobras would be a much simpler solution...

Those dual tail rotors are supremely weird...

 

[CJGibson]

he was the best draughtsman I ever met personally and definitely the only person who ever gave me a 27H pencil. RIP John Jupe, you have my unending respect and gratitude.

27H! Wow! That's well 'ard. I didn't know such a thing existed!

Chris

 

[hesham]

John Jupe was my grandfather and I was very moved to read this piece. It's really a very distant memory for me, given that I was just eight years old through most of 1984, but I am sure I remember being blown away by sketched drawings of a twin rotor design that somewhat resembled the Ka52 Alligator the Russians currently fly. I cannot comment on John's professional skills due to lack of knowledge, but I can confidently state that he was the best draughtsman I ever met personally and definitely the only person who ever gave me a 27H pencil. RIP John Jupe, you have my unending respect and gratitude.

I think that,may you meant this one ?.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I think that,may you meant this one ?.

Supersonic rotors?

That may be the only helo louder than a Huey...

 

[Dr Ron]

EXCLUSIVE – 1980s UK secret stealth attack helicopter project revealed - Royal Aeronautical Society

How the UK had a stealth attack helicopter design project almost a decade before the US RAH-66 Comanche. A former Leonardo Helicopters Chief Engineer, Jeremy Graham FRAeS reveals archive details of this never-before publicised Westland Helicopters low observable chopper proposal from the 1980s.

www.aerosociety.com

I was running Future Projects at Westland at the time, Jeremy Graham worked on this project also. Our book is due out imminently, see also Westland and the Attack Helicopter on the RAeS website.

 

[Dr Ron]

John Jupe was my grandfather and I was very moved to read this piece. It's really a very distant memory for me, given that I was just eight years old through most of 1984, but I am sure I remember being blown away by sketched drawings of a twin rotor design that somewhat resembled the Ka52 Alligator the Russians currently fly. I cannot comment on John's professional skills due to lack of knowledge, but I can confidently state that he was the best draughtsman I ever met personally and definitely the only person who ever gave me a 27H pencil. RIP John Jupe, you have my unending respect and gratitude.

I worked with John. Initially I supported his team; then there was a reorganisation and I became head of that team. He was moved to work with someone who he did not get on with. He asked my manager if he could move back into what had been his department and work for me. He knew that we would get on, because we respected each other's capabilities. We could not have been a better team. He was brilliant but there were some aspects where my abilities were better suited to some of the tasks. We had an excellent working relationship, Attached is a perspective drawing of one of our designs that he created from a three view general arrangement drawing. He was greatly respected by everyone who worked closely with him.

 

[flateric]

Sir - did WG47b ever got an internal nickname for these shapes with retractable cabin?

 

[Dr Ron]

Not to my knowledge - of course, it never progressed out of Projects into detailed design.

 

[Dr Ron]

Wasn't the U.K. also interested in a turret launched HVM during this period?

I went with the Research Director to Hatfield and was briefed on an HVM, which as I remember was called Flame (Hawker Siddeley Dynamics).. I don't recall anything coming of it - it was too immature at that stage.. Only time that I travelled to and from a meeting in the company Agusta 109.