the tilt rotor design (post 39) looks to be a development of the Bristol Type 199 transport studies by R. Hafner. Im guessing the design was possibly resubmitted as a supplementary study as part of Westland's pitch to OR.358 ?
 

Attachments

  • 272942349_549139023264478_6887980073151349790_n.jpg
    272942349_549139023264478_6887980073151349790_n.jpg
    18.4 KB · Views: 49
  • 272959202_549136666598047_5375250338062511635_n.jpg
    272959202_549136666598047_5375250338062511635_n.jpg
    276.5 KB · Views: 33
  • 273023006_549139029931144_340676634857502494_n.jpg
    273023006_549139029931144_340676634857502494_n.jpg
    43.6 KB · Views: 34
  • 277555872_585233286321718_8982613634838154022_n.jpg
    277555872_585233286321718_8982613634838154022_n.jpg
    168.8 KB · Views: 44
Last edited:
Westland Aircraft & Rotorcraft - Secret Projects & Cutting Edge Technology
If you have purchased via Amazon, please post a review of it on their site. It helps to show interest in the work. Any feedback is good information for us.
 

Attachments

  • Full cover.jpg
    Full cover.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 31
  • Lecture header.jpg
    Lecture header.jpg
    294.5 KB · Views: 45
Sister Joe,

I think something went wrong here,WG.1 was a four Gnome,ASW troop/cargo helicopter,also
WG.11 was a four turboshaft 60-troop compound helicopter.

For OR.358,I know only unnamed twin tilt-rotor aircraft ?,WG.2 ?,rather than the WG.7 was a twin
turboshaft ASW medium lift helicopter.
WG.11 was proposed in a 60 seat layout format but only for civil application. In the military lift it was restricted to 34 combat troops seated along the side walls.
In researching the recent Westland book I was aware of the tilt rotor with variable rotor diameter as shown in the Derek James book, BUT, this aircraft does not appear in the WG register of projects even though it is contemporary with the WG1 studies to meet OR358. Returning to the archive this week I have found the image used by Derek James and what is missing from the picture in his book is the reference to "pre-SRT studies". These studies were undertaken after Rotodyne cancellation, mostly by Fairey, and covered a range of tilt-rotor and tilt-wing layouts. In this case I believe that the variable diameter scheme would have been created under the direction of Hafner at Yeovil. It does have more than a sniff of the Bristol tilt rotor projects of the late 50s and the only reference to OR358 relates to its folded dimensions, rather than its ability to satisfy the broader requirements. The drawing also has an "SK" identity which was used in early SRT reports as well and is short for "Sketch". This designation has no clear formal link to the Project Office though I would anticipate that all SK drawings would have been created by draughtsmen working in that area. As far as I am aware, Westland made no submission for OR358 based on a convertiplane layout.
 
Thank you Dr Ron,

but that's so weird,because in Putnam's book,they mentioned there was a tilt-rotor concept of 1962 for
OR.358,and they displayed a drawing to it ?!.
The drawing in Derek James's book only refers to the folded dimensions suiting the OR358 requirement. Looking at the original drawing it is annotated "pre SRT sketch" which places it alongside other post Rotodyne convertiplane layouts developed mostly by Fairey but then also at Yeovil. As far as I am aware this layout was never submitted as a proposal to satisfy OR358 and I very much doubt that it would have been attractive in the ASW role at that time which likely would have barred it from being included in the options submitted. Its apparent similarity to late 50s Bristol projects suggests to me that this aircraft was inspired by Hafner and its date suggests after he moved to Yeovil as Technical Director (Research).
 
does anyone have any further information on Westland's proposed 'Wessex Mk.6' pre Sea King developments ? (the text in Lee Howard's excellent volume on the type mentions a further development with S.61 type undercarriage and further fuselage changes, which sounds very different indeed ?) ref. Westland Wessex, Lee Howard, Haynes Publishing, 2018
 

Attachments

  • 369987580_902793127899064_872801068079487311_n.jpg
    369987580_902793127899064_872801068079487311_n.jpg
    58.7 KB · Views: 26
... A truly excellent volume, i have been waiting decades for a book like this it does give the impression of a 'labour of love' by the authors. ...
How true! This is exactly the kind of book I would like to see to shed more light on the diverse activities of an aircraft manufacturer, to see which designs took which path - regardless of whether they went into series production or not. I take my hat off to the effort that the two authors have gone to in order to offer us this wonderful book.
... My only tiny niggle comment would possibly be the drawings are a bit small for enlarging up to usable scales (possibly an online resource via the publisher ?) ...
This is actually the only flaw from my point of view.

Perhaps the authors see a way to provide better resolving three-view drawings to the purchasers of the book, as Scott Lowther (@Orionblamblam) did years ago, when he verified the petitioner's purchase of a word from page xxx and in line yyy at position zzz in the text of Paul Suhler's publication From Rainbow to Gusto and sent the drawings because they were reproduced too small in the book.

Two additional questions:
Years ago, I received a few good photo prints of Westland models from the archive of the Helicopter Museum in Bückeburg (Germany), no doubt intended for advertising campaigns at airshows and for magazine editors. Among them was one of the WG.21, which I would like to post here in addition to the two published in the book on page 162.
Westland pic1.jpg

I can't categorise the other design exactly, as it doesn't really resemble any of the compounds shown in the book down to the last detail (note the tail unit with the fin pulled forward to the rear wing edge).
Westland pic2.jpg
Can the two authors say something about the type/project designation of the design shown? I suspect that it is a preliminary study for the WG.22 family.
 
How true! This is exactly the kind of book I would like to see to shed more light on the diverse activities of an aircraft manufacturer, to see which designs took which path - regardless of whether they went into series production or not. I take my hat off to the effort that the two authors have gone to in order to offer us this wonderful book.

This is actually the only flaw from my point of view.

Perhaps the authors see a way to provide better resolving three-view drawings to the purchasers of the book, as Scott Lowther (@Orionblamblam) did years ago, when he verified the petitioner's purchase of a word from page xxx and in line yyy at position zzz in the text of Paul Suhler's publication From Rainbow to Gusto and sent the drawings because they were reproduced too small in the book.

Two additional questions:
Years ago, I received a few good photo prints of Westland models from the archive of the Helicopter Museum in Bückeburg (Germany), no doubt intended for advertising campaigns at airshows and for magazine editors. Among them was one of the WG.21, which I would like to post here in addition to the two published in the book on page 162.
View attachment 731804

I can't categorise the other design exactly, as it doesn't really resemble any of the compounds shown in the book down to the last detail (note the tail unit with the fin pulled forward to the rear wing edge).
View attachment 731805
Can the two authors say something about the type/project designation of the design shown? I suspect that it is a preliminary study for the WG.22 family.
Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully, Jezzmundo will see this and reply in relation to the convertiplane image. Great to see another WG.21 photo.
 
Dr. Ron,

please can I ask you if these two VTOL Westland projects are in your book ?,

We are aware of projects sized to offer an alternative to Viscount and Vanguard via a convertiplane layout. Both of these studies were undertaken at Hayes and post date the cancellation of Rotodyne. Because they are not Yeovil project studies we have very limited information about them. Our book mentions such work but only in passing. In truth it was only of real value in respect of the analysis techniques so developed and which would later inform the pre-SRT studies dated around '63 to '65.
 
How true! This is exactly the kind of book I would like to see to shed more light on the diverse activities of an aircraft manufacturer, to see which designs took which path - regardless of whether they went into series production or not. I take my hat off to the effort that the two authors have gone to in order to offer us this wonderful book.

This is actually the only flaw from my point of view.

Perhaps the authors see a way to provide better resolving three-view drawings to the purchasers of the book, as Scott Lowther (@Orionblamblam) did years ago, when he verified the petitioner's purchase of a word from page xxx and in line yyy at position zzz in the text of Paul Suhler's publication From Rainbow to Gusto and sent the drawings because they were reproduced too small in the book.

Two additional questions:
Years ago, I received a few good photo prints of Westland models from the archive of the Helicopter Museum in Bückeburg (Germany), no doubt intended for advertising campaigns at airshows and for magazine editors. Among them was one of the WG.21, which I would like to post here in addition to the two published in the book on page 162.
View attachment 731804

I can't categorise the other design exactly, as it doesn't really resemble any of the compounds shown in the book down to the last detail (note the tail unit with the fin pulled forward to the rear wing edge).
View attachment 731805
Can the two authors say something about the type/project designation of the design shown? I suspect that it is a preliminary study for the WG.22 family.
The image of the larger aircraft describes an early configuration, well before WG.22 was even thought of. I cannot quickly date it with certainty but I would suggest an artistic interpretation of SK11 which is shown in the book. Most likely it pre-dates even that and is much more reminiscent of the final work undertaken at Hayes post Rotodyne cancellation. There are a range of artistic impressions from the period of pre-SRT and early SRT studies. WE have pictures of this artwork and so I should be able to track down a date (but only the date when the picture was taken).
 
The Boscombe Down Branch is delighted to welcome two ex-employees of Westland Helicopters Ltd (Jeremy Graham and Dr Ron Smith) to present a special talk at the Boscombe Down Aviation Collection (BDAC).
[...]
This lecture will be recorded and uploaded to the RAeS YouTube channel in due course.
:cool:
Sources:
View: https://x.com/RAeSTimR/status/1802415032296235385

 
Having read through the lot, my main regret now is, that I hadn‘t this book a bit earlier … maybe 20 to 25 years, when I was beginning with making reconstructions of aircraft as a hobby. Would have saved me a lot of time back then !
32.png

Great work, congratulations !
But I must admit, that after some attempts to compare my old drawings to the now available, correct and more or less official drawings, I have to second boxkite, that it would be great, if they somehow may be available in higher resolution (as proposed, for ascertained owners only). Tried to check my old drawing of the WG.19 (exact designation was unknown to me back then), and several faults are immediately striking the eye (where the devil I got that gigantic rotor diameter from ??), but others would need a more detailed search.
Could be helpful to modelers, too, especially for them, a drawing never can big enough ! ;)
 

Attachments

  • westland-VTOL-3.pdf
    129.7 KB · Views: 19
does anyone have any further information on Westland's proposed 'Wessex Mk.6' pre Sea King developments ? (the text in Lee Howard's excellent volume on the type mentions a further development with S.61 type undercarriage and further fuselage changes, which sounds very different indeed ?) ref. Westland Wessex, Lee Howard, Haynes Publishing, 2018
Wessex 6 is a project that is missing from the book but which does have an interesting background. The Project Office originally took the view that a substantially modified type would make most sense. Once it was clear that any such development could only be a gap filler pending an all new design being available then far less adventurous proposals were tabled (at least internally - I will need to see if Kew has any indication that these were shared with the MoD). The aircraft with Sea King like undercarriage was not a definitive proposal but more one showing the potential benefit of desirable modifications. Seems like the Wessex 6 should be a feature of any future version of the book. In the mean while I will see if it can be added to the presentation that I and Dr Ron have assembled. Our focus on formal WG.X project designations over the period relevant to the Wessex 6 work means that we did not include it because it never achieved that status (even though the analysis was undertaken by the Project Office). Every time I turn around in the archive I find some new snippet that helps to tell the history of project activities at Yeovil!
 
I have to second boxkite, that it would be great, if they somehow may be available in higher resolution (as proposed, for ascertained owners only).
Me too.I already have my copy, Congratulations for the excellent work but just missing bigger drawings.
 
Me too.I already have my copy, Congratulations for the excellent work but just missing bigger drawings.
Glad you are finding it of interest. We had no control over the image size but we were able to be successful at placing them in the correct locations. Had the images been much larger then the page count would have gone through the roof. Dr Ron and I are looking to see how larger images might be made available in due course.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom