Western Artists' Concepts of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War

It seems that in his presentation of the "Aviation week" Russian pseudo-Atomic plane, Matej used this page :
http://modelstories.free.fr/histokits/A-plane_P/page7.html
but he forgot to copy the other picture in that page which puts the whole affair in a totally different light. This is an editorial from the French magazine Aviation Magazine dated January 1st 1959 (hence the following week after Aviation Week article).
here is a rough translation :
" Fakes bringing gold :
we don't want to say the Russian A-plane does not exist. Our very own sources tell us that the Russian engineers put a big effort regarding this subject. But to swallow the super-bomber "discovered" by Aviation Week it needs a bold step.
We will therefore take this opportunity to reveal the politico-budgetary undertones of this question. Everyone will recall how , five years ago, Aviation Week did a big detailed article about the new Russian super-bombers Tu-200 and IL-38,(which never existed). This astonishing article was published just days before the Congress discussed the budget of the Strategic air Command which at the time was menaced by severe budget cuts. Thanks to this article and the said Soviet menace, the SAC budget became taboo.
Now , december 1958, aviation week reveals in exclusivity a Russian atomic bomber...
And we just have to reprint what our colleagues of "le Figaro" [a top political evening newspaper in France] said : by a remarkable coincidence , this affair happens when President Eisenhower has announced his will to reduce defense spendings and will today -december 2nd- review the military budgets in the National Security Council.... many interests are then to be discussed which would be served by the announcement of another "triumph" of the Soviets.
Mr Mac Elroy the Secretary of Defense is sceptical. He ought to be when seeing the drawing of the said A-plane which Aviation Week has largely distributed through many press agencies. The artist who drew it could at least have drawn a believable aircraft."

Now if Aviation Magazine did not believe in it , the model manufacturer Aurora did !
img32.jpg


but whatever the model kit , this is very interesting in that it suggests the whole affair was not a question of misidentified "Bounder" but really a political scam using a fake aircraft to protect the "militaro-industrial complex" interests !!!

JCC
 
ISTR reading in an issue of The Bulletin of the Russian Aviation Research Group of Air Britain some years ago a listing of misidentified a/c. I think the most prominent one was the MiG "Fearless", which I think was a twin engined version of the MiG-23, or maybe a VG version of the MiG-25, supposedly. I don't know if "Fearless" turned out to be "Fencer" or what, but it went away. The fact it was given a NATO code name was a big deal. Also listed were altered photos, but not shown, a number of types. One that comes to mind is an altered photo of the CF-105 Arrow, supposed to be a MiG of some sort. There was also reported a USSR 'copy' of the F-4 Phantom II. I know there were others, but these are the ones that come to mind.
 
Was that the one that looked like Tu-144 wings & tail with hardly any fuselage? I always wondered if there was a Tu-144 bomber variant. In an old Wings or Airpower magazine there's a a small drawing of a Tu-144 with shorter aft fuselage & conventional nose / windshield claimed to be an early Tu-160 proposal, but I've never seen it elsewhere that made it seem 'official'. I believe the issue was from arund 1990. I saw some mention somewhere that RAM-H was the Tu-144D, so maybe that was the Tu-144 bomber they thought.


overscan said:
The Tupolev Tu-160 original configuration was heavily based on the Tu-144. Tupolev also tried to push various cruise missile carrier, recce, ecm, even interceptor versions of the Tu-144 through the 70s.
Click to expand...
 
Found the Fearless.

Its described as a "new variable geometry air superiority fighter developed by the Mikoyan bureau", undergoing flight testing, according to US sources.

T/W Ratio: 1.2:1
Gross weight: 40,000lb
2 x 24,000lb turbojets

Source:
Air Enthusiast December 1971
 
Service testing of a new single seat single engine fighter with double delta (a la Viggen) wing, closely resembling the "Faithless", intended as the MiG-21 successor.

Air International October 1974
 
I picked up this handy book in a charity book fair in the UK, 'Future Fighters and Combat Aircraft' by Bill Gunston Salamander Books 1984. (This book is almost as old as me!)

In it is loads of 1980s projects and some of the MiG-29 and Su-27.

Unfortunatley I haven't got a scanner :-[ so I can't give you any pics. These following profiles were drawn specially from the latest data in 1984.

It has the An-124, here as the An-400 Condor. It looks a bit like the real aircraft but a bit fatter with a upward hingeing door like the Galaxy event hough the text ndicates such a door was unlikely.

The MiG-29 has the LERX with the intakes under them, they are similar to the F-15 intakes , the canopy is very large for all-round vision, twin fins mounted above the engines and ventral fins. Wingtip missiles are also shown.

The Su-27 is very similar and looks more like the early T-10 designs, boxy intakes are well back from the leading edge under the LERX. Outward canted twin fins are mounted above the engines and there are ventral fins, the parachute/radar housing between the engiens is also present. In all this design looks very neat, of note are conformal packs like FAST along the lower fuselage.

A DOD drawing of the Tu-160 was included but the Mil-28 Havoc was not illustrated.

This book also has tons of other projects many here will find very interesting. :)
 
Hi Hood,

I have this book and it's a very nice source for this kind of fake Soviet aircraft. I'll dig again on my archives in search of a An-400 profile you'll love.

By the moment two new additions from Revista de Aeronáutica Number 208 March 1958

1. Romboidal wing fighter

2. Professor Blagonrawow (can you confirm its existence Flateric?. I haven't heard that name ???). shown this drawing in a conference about Soviet existing projects on nuclear powered aircraft. The tilt-wing design is particulary amazing!

Enjoy folks :)
 

Attachments

  • File0369.jpg
    File0369.jpg
    121.9 KB · Views: 907
  • File0368.jpg
    File0368.jpg
    128.2 KB · Views: 692
overscan said:
Service testing of a new single seat single engine fighter with double delta (a la Viggen) wing, closely resembling the "Faithless", intended as the MiG-21 successor.

Air International October 1974
Click to expand...

Consdiering some of the Mikoyan OKB's studies, this one likely isn't that far off in describing a study, just nothing that metal was cut on.
 
pometablava said:
Professor Blagonrawow (can you confirm its existence Flateric?. I haven't heard that name ???). shown this drawing in a conference about Soviet existing projects on nuclear powered aircraft. The tilt-wing design is particulary amazing!
Click to expand...

Yep, he's a real person http://www.cosmoworld.ru/spacehistory/firsts/blagonravov.html
I remember I have somewhere hi-res pic of a/c shown in lower right corner (from DDR aviation annnual ca.1969) - I sure that it's true what-if a-la all these drawings from PopSci or PopMech of these golden years of 'what-ifs' with nuclear-powered refrigerators at every kitchen etc.
 
Another "Hokum"

(Muy Interesante magazine-oct1989)
 

Attachments

  • hokum.jpg
    hokum.jpg
    108.3 KB · Views: 1,302
A new, extremely agile single-engined multirole fighter closely comparable with the General Dynamics F-16 and designated MiG-35 was flown recently by Indian Air Force pilots... Indian interest in the MiG-35 is understood to be primarily as a fallback in the event that the indigenous LCA does not proceed.
Click to expand...

Air International August 1988
 
Reading through my copy of 'The World's fighting Planes' 4th Ed. by William Green and published by Macdonald: London in 1964 I noticed a few guesses on new Soviet aircraft.

Most data was provisional and most photos were grainy offical Soviet pictures.

It gave the Be-10 Mallow a good report on its performance by going by the FAI records it set.

MiG-23 Flipper, or what we know today as the Ye-152 "is potentially one of the best current short-range, single-seat all-weather fighters extant, and is presumably intended to form a team in the I.A.-P.V.O. with surface-launched missiles and the longer-ranged Fiddler." It goes on to describe the 'Awl' IR-guided AAM on the pylons and the intake cone was presumed to house a 28" A.I. radar with a range of thirty miles. It mentions a centre-line pylon for fuel tanks and a rocket pack as well.

There were good line drawings of the YaK-25 Mandrake and other YaK-25 variants that were quite accurate.

The Tu-128 'Fiddler' was thought to be a Yakolev product as was the 'Backfin' bomber wcih it acknowldeges to have failed to enter VVS service. A poor shot featured a large ventral pannier, which I believe was for fuel, but they presume it to be, "a large ventral radar bulge whcih may be prepared to house high-definition ground mapping radar." It even mentions a ventral bay in a bomber version which it compares to the TSR.2.

Other gems in the book include the VFW.1262, EWR-Sud VJ 101D, the first public artists impressions of the SAAB Viggen, the Helouan HA-300, TSR.2 before it was cancelled, an ealry drawing of the F-111, a very accurate drawing and model of the Vought A-7 and loads on the YF-12A and it predicts the SR-71 was unlikely to be built or serve for very long.
 
I've also seen a reference in which the TU-22 has the NATO Code Name "Beauty" and the TU-128 is believed to be a bomber and given the NATO code name "Blinder". Once the TU-128 was recognized as a fighter, I understand someone in NATO had the TU-22 renamed as "Blinder" because "Beauty" was "too good a name for a Soviet bomber". Again, this is strictly rumor.
 
[From Matej]

Desinterpretation of what is this? Or pure fantasy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
russian delta wing concept.jpg (53.55 KB, 468x619 - viewed 49 times.)
Click to expand...

Back to the “Rauten-MiG” or “MiG-Raute“ (= rhomb) – this was the name given by West German magazines to the rhomboidal wing fighter (see pometablava/Aug 17 & Oct 01, 2006 & Matej/Aug 25, 2006). I asked my friend Helge Bergander because he is a profound expert on Soviet aircraft and very familiar with original newspapers and magazines from the 1950s and 1960s. This is what he wrote about the mysterious fighter:

“An article written by A I Mikoyan was published on June 19, 1954 (it was the eve of the Tushino parade) in the daily newspaper “Sovietskaya Literatura” (!) and came like a bomb to western aviation circles. The parade itself was totally uninteresting. The article was also published in British and US magazines (e. g., Aviation Week Sept 20, 1954).
The “Rhomb(us) MiG” which was 'created' by western editorial offices based on this article. They contained two misinterpretations:
- Mikoyan doesn't write about MiGs, but about the whole Soviet aviation industry.
- The term “rhomboidal wing” came from the TsAGI and doesn't mean the rhomb as an mathematic-geometrical term, but a delta wing with negative swept trailing edge as used on the Tsybin RSR, Myasishchev M-54, and Convair B-58.
Interestingly, you can find a more correct interpretation in the excellent translation by the Aviation Week from 1954 – the Russian original specialized literature came up with this statement/definition not before 1990!”

Btw, Helge Bergander is working on a history of the Soviet air shows on the Day of the Air Fleet between 1945-1967. It's a treasure chest for all who are interested in the history of (right and wrong) 'naming' of Soviet aircraft by western spectators. He investigated dozens of Soviet (and others) newspapers, magazines, books and videos to show mistakes (e. g. spread by Y. G.'s books). If you are interested, gentlemen, please use the time to learn German ;D.
 
Hallo Boxkite

I'm interested in Helge Bergander work :). My German is limited but enough to read aerospace info. Please keep me updated.

I wrote this list this today. Information comes from Spanish Magazine "Avión" March 1956 Issue.
 

Attachments

  • Soviet Bomber Fever 1956.pdf
    29.6 KB · Views: 239
Fighter info from Avión April 1956 Issue


MiG
>
>MiG-19 (page 150): "Flying Barrel", shown in Tushino on 1951. A possible
>failure. According to some sources entered in service by 1953 but in very
>limited numbers. The Fresco was prefered for mass- production.
>
>Super-MiG: missidentified as MiG-17 some years ago. Probably based on a
>twin-jet MiG-15 development. A version with nose radome and lateral
>intakes seems to have been existed. Anyway the type never went beyond the
>prototype stage.
>
>Super-MiG or Mik-21: The G from Gurevitch would be lost. Twin engine
>project. Provisional arrangement illustrated in the attached pics.
>
>Romboidal wing: exotic but not a new configuration (also studied in the
>West). I HAD NO IDEA!. This configuration should overcome defficiences
>known with delta wings. There are little info about it other than that
>from yellow press from USA. It is known that a prototype was flown in
>Ramenskoye were 15 different fighter prototypes had been tested at the
>same time. Its existence was confirmed by Mr Mikoyan at Radio Moscow.
>
>LAVOCHKIN
>
>La-17 versions: an interim fighter with nose radar (similar to that
>illustrated for the MiG-15) has been fielded while waiting for a
>deffinitive all-weather fighter. A 2-crew assault has been tested but no
>adopted. Lateral intakes leaving a pointed nose for a radar and 4 cannons
>instalation.
>
>La-26: nothing more has been heard about this all-weather twin jet.
>
>Me-262 analogues: in 1946 a limited number of jets with Me-262
>configuration entered service with Soviet Air Force. It was suposed to be
>a Lavochkin type and designated La-8. A further improvement from 1948 was
>given the La-13 number. It was a straight wing type with underwing poded
>engines. Armament was 4 NS 23 mm in the nose.
>
>La-16: a 1949 evolution from La-8/13 types with swept surfaces and
>armament allocated in the forward fuselage sides to allow instalation of a
>powerful radar in the nose. The first public apearance in Tushino 1955 of
>an all weather interceptor codenamed Flashlight seems to be the final
>developmental stage of the La-16.
>
>Nevertheless the Flashlight shows several differences in detail with the
>La-16 and nobody can be sure even the Flashlight is a Lavokhin product.
>
>
>
>TUPOLEV
>
>By 1954 rumors from German sources indicated a Tupolev all weather fighter
>had entered series production by 1953. It was similar configured as the
>French Vatour. Data was
>
>Weight: 12 Tm
>
>Lenght: 16 m
>
>Span: 15 m
>
>Engines: 2 turbojet 2250 kg thurst each
>
>Speed: 975 Km/h
>
>Ceiling: 12000 m
>
>
>
>YAKOVLEV
>
>Yak-25 Farmer: Shown in Tushino in 1955. Mass produced. Clearly
>supersonic. Some sources are claiming that it could outperform the F-100
>being paired to the still secret F-104. Estimated data: Klimov VK-5b with
>4000 Kg dry Thurst. Max speed: 1,2 to 1,3 Mach. Armament: 4 NS 23 mm.
>Lenght: 9,80 m, Span: 10,60 m.
>
>Yakovlev seems to work in a flying boat fighter and a rocket fighter too.
 
BTW, anyone knows where comes the ZAGI designators from it? why it was supposed to be real Soviet designation system?. What does ZAGI means?
Thanks
 
I don't know if the TsAGI (German transliteration is ZAGI) really used/uses type designations (see APR Soviet Seaplane Bombers). But the 'ZAGI-228' (-> Tu-16) and 'ZAGI-428' (M-4) are definitely creations of the west.

Antonio, I've got my printed copy of Helge Bergander's work right at time before Xmas. He is working on a CD-ROM version, so I'll ask him to make a copy for you as soon as it is finished.
 
boxkite said:
Btw, Helge Bergander is working on a history of the Soviet air shows on the Day of the Air Fleet between 1945-1967. It's a treasure chest for all who are interested in the history of (right and wrong) 'naming' of Soviet aircraft by western spectators. He investigated dozens of Soviet (and others) newspapers, magazines, books and videos to show mistakes (e. g. spread by Y. G.'s books). If you are interested, gentlemen, please use the time to learn German ;D.
Click to expand...
I never heard of Helge Bergander, who is he(she) anyway? When you want the truth I`d recommend to start learning russian instead of wasting time with german. Why learning a language which is still screwing-up the cyrillic alphabet? The russian name "ЦАГИ" we (slavs using latin instead of cyrillic) transliterate and pronounce аs "CAGI" (Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute), not ZAGI nor TsAGI.
The "CAGI" was used as an aircraft type designations till the end of worldwar II. The institute itself was officially founded in 1918 in Moscow by N. E. Zhukovsky, at the time already running independent design bureaus. A.N. Tupolev, the cofounder and a student of N.E.Zhukovsky was working in one of the Institute`s design bureaus. Later he founded his own bureau OKB.Tupolev.
Search the russian internet, it is full of interesting things, e.g.
http://www.rusarchives.ru/secret/index.shtml
There was an agreement signed in 1946-49 about the aircraft naming system of the post-war USSR. I`ve seen it there(the above given website), but now can`t find it. :-[ Then the CAGI designation disappeared, but it might have been used for internal purposes(aerodynamics concepts investigated).
 
"Ц" transliterated as "C" is misleading in English at least, because "C" can be pronounced hard ("cat" with the k sound) or soft ("central" with the s sound). If I see "CAGI" I immediately think "KAGI" which is not correct; "Ц" is the soft C of "central". Therefore transliterating as "Ts" makes perfect sense in English to clarify the pronounciation.
 
"I've also seen a reference in which the TU-22 has the NATO Code Name "Beauty" "

This reporting name is mentioned as the second choice in the current AI issue, too. According to this article, the first name given to the Tu-22, "Bullshot", was rejected, as inappropriate and "Beauty" was felt as being too complimentary, so "Blinder" was chosen...
Seems to have been interesting business in NATO's ASCC (Air Standards Co-ordinating Commitee, or better ... Comedy ??) ;D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
overscan said:
"Ц" transliterated as "C" is misleading in English at least, because "C" can be pronounced hard ("cat" with the k sound) or soft ("central" with the s sound). If I see "CAGI" I immediately think "KAGI" which is not correct; "Ц" is the soft C of "central". Therefore transliterating as "Ts" makes perfect sense in English to clarify the pronounciation.
Click to expand...
I understand, but I think this somehow non-standart transliteration to English is(was) causing mess in the aircraft naming system. For example, a russian designer "Павел Цыбин", designed the aircraft "Ц-1". Transliteration to my language is quite simple and logic, a designer "Pavel Cybin" designed the aircraft "C-1", because our grammar says "write the way you hear". Opposite to that, in English you write about designer "Pavel Tsybin" who designed aircraft "Ts-1". Then when we(also russians) look at the aircraft name "Ts-1" we see there two totaly different letters "T" and "S", but hell he never designed aircraft with that name ;D.....do you understand me?
 
mrdetonator said:
boxkite said:
Btw, Helge Bergander is working on a history of the Soviet air shows on the Day of the Air Fleet between 1945-1967. It's a treasure chest for all who are interested in the history of (right and wrong) 'naming' of Soviet aircraft by western spectators. He investigated dozens of Soviet (and others) newspapers, magazines, books and videos to show mistakes (e. g. spread by Y. G.'s books). If you are interested, gentlemen, please use the time to learn German ;D.
Click to expand...
I never heard of Helge Bergander, who is he(she) anyway? When you want the truth I`d recommend to start learning russian instead of wasting time with german.
Click to expand...

But I got the impression that the work would be focused on Western (incorrect) designations, in which case I think Western sources would obviously be appropriate. ???
 
I see, the BGN/PCGN system is causing this all. At least there could be some kind of exceptions in the English grammar when dealing with foreign-language names, designations or abbreviations. In case of the "ЦАГИ=CAGI", why not thinking about soft pronounciation (with the s sound) of the first letter, because abbreviation CAGI is starting with word CENTRAL ... not the word "TsENTRAL"? After all you pronounce words "CENTER" and "SECTOR" the same way.

Some soviet aircraft naming theory.... :)
http://www.airwar.ru/other/ussr.html


OT:Generally, the whole transition from east to west style thinking and flying a combat plane is causing a lot of troubles. After our country became the NATO member, airforce pilots accustomed to fly with metric units have been forced to switch to imperial ones. I`ve heard some times that after flying those "imperialized" Migs-29, some "senior" pilots had no idea, what altitude, speed or what distance they`ve flown. Flying according to imperial units is for us like "scratching left ear with right hand", simply illogical, impractical and almost stupid. :D I wonder whether russians will ever switch to imperial units.
 
More important that adhering to imperial units, stablishing Broadcast comms/Bullseye Air Ops procedures specially on Air Interception duties is a must.

Enough of Close Control doctrines for me please ;D
 
Pit said:
establishing Broadcast comms/Bullseye Air Ops procedures specially on Air Interception duties is a must.
Click to expand...
Tell me about that. There are instructions in the airforce forbiding to have two military aircrafts flying in the airspace one in metric, the other one in imperial units. This can have a fatal outcome. Well, sometimes.......no comment ;D The transition is a painful process, not only for pilots. What is the situation with your country now when you received pure russian fighters? thanks
 
Thanks for the short introductory summary of the Su-30MK2 implementation. Do you have any detailed information about those "special modifications" carried out for the FAV? The degree of "westernization" always depends on customer requirements. You`ve said that Sukhois were mostly fitted with russian avionics sets. Why is that anyway? Definitely, it would help to recognize them when I see more detailed photos of sukhoi aircrafts. Although, I have to admit my knowledge about nowadays russian nav/comm/iff might be somewhat limited, because we replaced them with Rockwell/Collins and Bae equipment. Then we can also move(reposting) to the appropriate thread.
 
Boxkite,

How can I obtain a copy of Helge Bergander's "History of the Soviet Aviation Day 1945-1967" - print version or on CD-ROM?
 
1984 way-of-thinking of modern Soviet a/c...An-124 was An-400 tnen. From Bill Gunston's Illustrated Guide to Modern Fighters...
 

Attachments

  • 1984-an400-1.jpg
    1984-an400-1.jpg
    92.5 KB · Views: 1,358
  • 1984-an400-2.jpg
    1984-an400-2.jpg
    85 KB · Views: 1,217
  • 1984-mig29.jpg
    1984-mig29.jpg
    57.5 KB · Views: 3,176
  • 1984-su27.jpg
    1984-su27.jpg
    63.6 KB · Views: 1,523
Those pictures Flateric are the ones I have, and described earlier in this thread from Bill Gunston's 'Future Warplanes' by Salamander Press.

Good looking profiles even if they were not that close to the truth.
 
Flateric's pix were originally derived from USAF public briefing documents. They were shown on screens but not handed out.
Shortly thereafter the practice of packing Leica R3 with 180mm/2.8 lens into such events was discouraged ;D.
 
By the way, I remember hearing somewhere that "Fearless" was never an assigned codename. It was a name given to a US-developed projected threat, a pre-1979 idea of what the follow-on to the MiG-23 would look like.
 
Well, I found the original mention of "Fearless" in 1971. Perhaps it was a US "design study" of a possible Soviet response to the F-15 program made during the F-15 development?
 
I've always been interested in the US DoD impressions, mostly paintings during the Cold War, of Soviet aircraft, ships and land-based systems. Often they weren't far off the mark but other times they were widely inaccurate, sometimes for political reasons to justify the DoDs expenditure. The Spiral influenced space fighter, T-80 shown as a M-1 copy and the 2S6M Tunguska shown as a Gepard copy are some of the best examples.

Here is a link to some of the best I've seen.
http://www.fas.org/irp/dia/product/art/art_2.html

Anyone else have any more to add?
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom