Vought F4U Corsair designs and prototypes

[alfakilo]

The proper response to a bounce seems a little counter-intuitive, and takes some training and a steady head. After the first bounce you abandon the landing. Slowly open the throttle, and apply some forward stick to keep the fuselage level and allow speed to build up. When you can determine that the elevator, rudder and ailerons are effective, gradually add more power. Fly away, go around, and try again.

Good advice for any go around, any airplane.

 

[Bill S]

F4U Low Drag Wing Proposal


In February 1946, the Vought Engineering Team researched a Performance Improvement Proposal for the US Navy using the F4U-5 Corsair as a baseline. One of the ideas they created was the Low Drag Straight Wing.


This wing had dihedral at the center section of 1° 30' and dihedral of 7° on the outer panel quite a bit of change over the original design. The proposal also featured a revised landing gear due to the wing change to maintain propeller clearance and circular arc type spoilers.


From the VAHF microfilm are the following drawings for your viewing pleasure.


Merry Christmas, Happy New Year!


V/r


Bill

 

[Stargazer]

Re: F4U Low Drag Wing Proposal

In February 1946, the Vought Engineering Team researched a Performance Improvement Proposal for the US Navy using the F4U-4 Corsair as a baseline. One of the ideas they created was the Low Drag Straight Wing.

Almost looks like the wing of a Grumman Hellcat was grafted onto a Corsair... Could this be related to the topic we had last week on Grumman being asked to help improve the Corsair while Vought was asked to improve the Hellcat? Interesting anyway! Thanks a lot for sharing.

 

[Pasoleati]

I wonder that did the stall strip really solve the stalling issue? After all, this is how the F4U-5 manual describes its stalling in carrier approach condition (all down, power on):"Stall warning as as indicated by slight airframe buffeting occurs ar speeds very close to the actual stall and therefore will not provide a positive and early indication to the pilot." and "...a roll-off to the left at the stall is violent andis accompanied by a 600-to-900 foot loss in altitude."

As for contra-rotating props, I think one needs only to read the British report on the Spit 21 comparing its handling to its standard propeller brother to be convinced that CR props would have been real life saviours of many pilots.

 

[GTX]

V-354 Trainer proposal drawings etc:

Source

 

[Steve Pace]

How cool is that - thanks for sharing! -SP

 

[hesham]

Wow,very cool,thank you my dear GTX.

 

[ACResearcher]

If you are looking for sources of information on the what/when/where and why of the F4U-1 Corsair series from camouflage to the shape of the radio antennae and mast, you will find no better sources either by price or volume of data than Dana Bell's two recent monographs in the Air Pictorial Series from Classic Warships Publishing.

Volume 1 covers the "Birdcages" (AP#7) and Volume 2 the 'Blown" canopies/teardrops/etc. (AP#8).

I should say up front that I was a contributor to both volumes, but both by what you might call "fortuitous accident". Blue aircraft bore me to tears. Sorry..just the way it is. I don't research them at all. I did happen to copy photos once that turned out to be useful to him, and for Volume 2 spotted an illustrated parts manual on ebay, ordered it blind and sent it on to Dana without even looking at it in the hopes it might be useful. As it turned out, it gave not only drawings of a lot of parts he was looking for but also the specific BuNo and manufacturer information for many on-going changes in the manufacture of the Corsair. Other than that, I have no connection whatsoever to the publications.

So if you want to know what happened, how it happened and what it looked like, get these two items.

AlanG

 

[SatinWings]

Back to the topic of the contra-prop Corsairs (sorry for the post necro), I found a couple nice images of a birdcage F4U-1 with contra-rotating props on an old forum, provided here after wresting them from the blurring provided courtesy of photobucket.
Also found the earlier image of an XF4U-4 with contra-props also appeared in the 1977 book US Navy and Marine Corps Fighters by William Green and Gordon Swanborough of the series WWII Aircraft Fact Files, as mentioned in another forum where they'd posted the scan.

Note how these were cuffed propellers while the XF4U-4 of before had cuffless props. It also seems to me that these were not the same Aeroproducts propellers with a cuff but instead (judging by the shape of the prop sticker) potentially Hamilton Standard.

(here's a tip- if you ever see that blurring/watermarking by photobucket but want to see the original image, select "open image in new tab" and change the prefix "i393" to "s393" in the URL, you'll be taken to a page from which you can download the original, un-watermarked image)

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Source : Pinterest

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/vs-2539x-xf4u-3-exhaust-system-jpg.207495/

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/vs-2539x-xf4u-3-induction-system-jpg.207493/

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/vs-25390-xf4u-3-inboard-profile-power-plant-jpg.207491/

 

[robunos]

Back to the topic of the contra-prop Corsairs (sorry for the post necro), I found a couple nice images of a birdcage F4U-1 with contra-rotating props on an old forum, provided here after wresting them from the blurring provided courtesy of photobucket.
Also found the earlier image of an XF4U-4 with contra-props also appeared in the 1977 book US Navy and Marine Corps Fighters by William Green and Gordon Swanborough of the series WWII Aircraft Fact Files, as mentioned in another forum where they'd posted the scan.

Note how these were cuffed propellers while the XF4U-4 of before had cuffless props. It also seems to me that these were not the same Aeroproducts propellers with a cuff but instead (judging by the shape of the prop sticker) potentially Hamilton Standard.

(here's a tip- if you ever see that blurring/watermarking by photobucket but want to see the original image, select "open image in new tab" and change the prefix "i393" to "s393" in the URL, you'll be taken to a page from which you can download the original, un-watermarked image)

This is the XF4U-1A used as a test-bed for the Hamilton-Standard 'Superhydromatic' propeller. more details Here

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Retrofit]

Probably V-166 something... V-166B was the XF4U-1.

...or probably something totally different

Some Corsair design numbers:

(...)
V-376 F4U for Perú

Source: Les Avions Vought. Bernat Millot. Docavia #20

Who knows the background for this projected specific version for Perú?
Thanks in advance

 

[riggerrob]

Don't know much about the Corsair but since it was to go to the USMC and thier land bases perhaps the stiff suspension was to help deal with field landings.

Uh, no!
Flying from land bases was a temporary solution to an unanticipated problem.
USMC got F4U Corsairs first because it took the US Navy a long time to cure landing-on problems.
Part of the solution was modifying undercarriage, but the bigger problem was the huge engine cowling blocking the pilot's view of the flight deck. Brits locked their upper cowling flaps closed. This improved the view and deflected oil secretions away from the windshield. Brits also raised the pilot's seat 7 inches and added a bulged Malcom hood canopy to still provide enough room for the pilot's head.
British FAA pilots solved the landing problem by flying curved approaches so they could keep the deck in sight until the last 2 or 3 seconds.
It is rather scary watching film footage of Sea Furies landing-on because they are only on the centre line for the last 2 or 3 seconds before touch down!

 

[riggerrob]

Although the stall strip fixed the assymetric stall on wave-off problem, there was still the massive torque of the prop, which could still cause problems in case power was applied suddenly, and that's why Corsairs are seen landing with right rudder applied.

Yes.
But simple propeller torque is only part of the explanation.
Yes, watching muscle cars rev up their engines does twist the chassis, but airplanes suffer tougher aerodynamic problems.
All single-prop planes are assymetric at steep angles of attack. They only fly steep angles of attack when taking off and landing. Steep angles of attack are usually exacerbated by slow airflow over control surfaces. Then the descending blade takes a deeper bite of air and produces more thrust.
For example, Corsairs' clockwise turning propellers bite deeper on the right side. This assymetric thrust tries to turn the nose to the left, so the pilot has to compensate with right rudder. The more powerful the engine, the earlier the pilot has to apply right rudder. Many warbirds need to pre-set rudder trim before take-off.

The last F2G Super Corsairs had massive R-4360-4 Wasp Major engines with 28 cylinders developing 3,000 horsepower … 50% more than stock engines. F2G needed revised vertical tails. The new fin was taller and they added an auxiliary rudder. The aux rudder was a massive trim tab almost 1/3 the height of the regular rudder. The aux rudder was always offset to the right before applying full power. Goodyear only built 10 Super Corsairs just before the end of WW2, but post war, they won a bunch of air races.

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quo-AgC4ZiU

Some interesting info on the Fleet Air Arm's Corsairs (including just how they initially came to be procured in the first place!).

EDIT:
From the comments thread;

ngatimozart4 days ago
Nice to see some RNZAF Corsairs in there. With the planned invasion of Japan, OP DOWNFALL, the USN restricted Corsairs to the USN and USMC in mid 1945. So the RNZAF were going to have to replace their 400 odd Corsairs with P-51D and P-51H Mustangs. However the war ended before the changeover happened and we only had to take delivery of the first tranche of P-51D. One Sqn of Corsairs, 14 Sqn RNZAF, was deployed to Japan as part of the Occupation Force and when they left Japan at the end of their deployment, the aircraft were parked together and burned in situ.

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMtwNCwxxwg

gyaviationtires
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During World War II, Goodyear Aircraft designed and built the 3,000hp F2G "Super Corsair." Though it never saw combat, the F2G would become one of the most famous racing airplanes to ever take to the skies. Learn the full story of one of the most powerful piston driven airplanes ever flown.

 

[Grey Havoc]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2aqeALGWL8

 

[Grey Havoc]

Some interesting info on the Fleet Air Arm's Corsairs (including just how they initially came to be procured in the first place!).

Follow up video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH5XSwyb_EU

 

[hesham]

From Illinois University report of 1946-1948.

 

[Bill S]

I apologise for not having looked up the answer yet, my copy of Corky Meyer's book is stashed in a box somewhere. My recollection was that Grumman was given a Corsair to try to emulate the excellent aileron response of the Corsair and Vought was given a Hellcat to improve upon the stall and bounce characteristics of the F4U. IIRC, the former was solved by the installation of a stall strip (a paliative, really), and the latter was cured by varying the characteristics of the oleos.

Fascinating the things that companies are asked to do in times of war... trying to improve the competition's aircraft!

Even more, they would give up their secrets to their peacetime competitors, like Boeing did with the B-29 production pool.

Sorry for going so far back, however I have found something of interest on this part of the conversation from previous visits to NARA II. In September 1943 AAF Material Command wrote a letter (MHM:mrs:50) authorizing a loan of the latest Army fighter planes to the Navy: P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47 and P-51. In exchange three Navy fighter airplanes, F5F-3, No. 25200, F4U-1, No. 17503, and F4F-3, No. 12230 have been loaned to Material Command. "These airplanes are on tour to manufacturers of Army Fighter airplanes and are due back at Wright Field this week after completing tests and inspections at Lockheed, North American, Northrop and Consolidated Vultee on the West Coast. After necessary inspections, the airplanes will depart for Bell and Republic on the East Coast to complete the tour."

A post tour letter, again Air Material Command (ZDF:/mrs:/47) 1Lt Zed Fountain, Jr wrote "The engineers and pilots at all factories were very pleased with the opportunity to examine and fly the Navy planes. They often remarked that it just seemed too good to be true."

I have seen Vought engineering reports evaluating the P-51A, P-38F and Spitfire. This might be better for a separate topic in a different forum.

 

[Bill S]

From Illinois University report of 1946-1948.

Here is another image of the FG-1 with the Westinghouse Model 19A from NARA II

 

[Deltafan]

I would LOVE to see pics of this, really...

Here's the beast

Source: Les Avions Vought by Bernard Millot. Docavia Editions Lariviere.


It was an XF4U-4 that received the contrarotating props from Aero Products in June 1945. The evaluation show no increase in performance over the 4-bladed single prop so the later was prefered.

Back to the topic of the contra-prop Corsairs (sorry for the post necro), I found a couple nice images of a birdcage F4U-1 with contra-rotating props on an old forum, provided here after wresting them from the blurring provided courtesy of photobucket.
Also found the earlier image of an XF4U-4 with contra-props also appeared in the 1977 book US Navy and Marine Corps Fighters by William Green and Gordon Swanborough of the series WWII Aircraft Fact Files, as mentioned in another forum where they'd posted the scan.

Note how these were cuffed propellers while the XF4U-4 of before had cuffless props. It also seems to me that these were not the same Aeroproducts propellers with a cuff but instead (judging by the shape of the prop sticker) potentially Hamilton Standard.

(here's a tip- if you ever see that blurring/watermarking by photobucket but want to see the original image, select "open image in new tab" and change the prefix "i393" to "s393" in the URL, you'll be taken to a page from which you can download the original, un-watermarked image)

Found this on this website about planes with contrarotating engines

http://www.enginehistory.org/members/Convention/2012/Presentations/Fey/Contra-Rotating02.pdf