VG Bizjets???

[ChuckAnderson]

Hi Everyone!

Does anyone here know if there are any REAL designs for any REAL swing-wing biz-jets?

I found one very nice aircraft but it turned out to be from a cartoon or some other similar place. (Damn, it was such a neat looking aircraft too!)

Any info on real swing-wing biz-jets would be most welcome!
Thanks!!

Chuck

 

[GTX]

How about this Russian military conversion proposal - the late 1990s proposed conversion of Tu-22M-3 bombers into a business jet for 10-12 passengers:

Regards,

Greg

 

[ChuckAnderson]

How about this Russian military conversion proposal - the late 1990s proposed conversion of Tu-22M-3 bombers into a business jet for 10-12 passengers:

Regards,

Greg

Hi Greg!

That's pretty nice!
Thanks so much!

Chuck

 

[Matej]

However I dont know, how seriously was meant this proposal.

 

[Orionblamblam]

However I dont know, how seriously was meant this proposal.

Reasonably. Gulfstream has spent the past several years working on it.

 

[Orionblamblam]

A Kentron design from 1984.

 

[TinWing]

However I dont know, how seriously was meant this proposal.

Reasonably. Gulfstream has spent the past several years working on it.

Gulfstream has been toying with the idea of a SSBJ since its early 1990s collaboration with Sukhoi.

I do have to wonder if the SSBJ is a perpetually doomed concept? If you couldn't make an economic case for the SSBJ when energy prices were at historic lows in 1998, how could anyone expect to launch such an economic and environmental monster in the next decade?

 

[Archibald]

First problem is the lack of a correct engine. Military engines are too maintenance costly. Modifying them would be to expensive for such a reduced market - 300 aircrafts only! -
adapting the core of a big civilian turbofan is too costly and the engine would be overweight for the aircraft.
Creating a brand new engine would be too expensive...

Even if this problem was solved, there's still the problem of fuel mass which already doomed Concorde. I remember an article on the Dassault project in Science&vie (aviation 1999). They noticed that 2/3 of the fuselage length were full of... fuel tanks.

don't forget the sonic boom problem...

It seem that supersonic civilian transport is a dead end :'( :'( :'(

 

[frank]

Why is the type of engine relaitive to having swing wings? I don't understand the relation here.

First problem is the lack of a correct engine. Military engines are too maintenance costly. Modifying them would be to expensive for such a reduced market - 300 aircrafts only! -
adapting the core of a big civilian turbofan is too costly and the engine would be overweight for the aircraft.
Creating a brand new engine would be too expensive...

Even if this problem was solved, there's still the problem of fuel mass which already doomed Concorde. I remember an article on the Dassault project in Science&vie (aviation 1999). They noticed that 2/3 of the fuselage length were full of... fuel tanks.

don't forget the sonic boom problem...

It seem that supersonic civilian transport is a dead end :'( :'( :'(

 

[agricola64]

i know its fictional ..

but did anyone here (like me) ever consider the practicability of the Carreidas 160?

(from Tintin "Flight 714")

http://membres.lycos.fr/wings2/tintin/714/714_2.jpg
http://www.free-tintin.net/dessins/vol9d1b.jpg
http://www.free-tintin.net/dessins/vol8a2.jpg
http://modelbox.free.fr/dossiers/tintin/Tintin_P/img40.jpg
http://www.xplanefreeware.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1752
http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c373/Snow63/Carreidas%20160/

servus

markus

 

[flateric]

Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) FSW/VG/QSP supersonic jet project from 2005. Being one of SSBJ alternatives studied, somehow this one became an final version of the design. Doubtless, too much Gundam was watched by design team.

AIAA 2005-1018
Conceptual Design of a Low Sonic Boom SSBJ
Shigeru Horinouchi
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, Tokyo

43rd AIAA Aerospace Sciences Meeting and Exhibit
10 - 13 January 2005, Reno, Nevada

 

[Jemiba]

Old thread, but I just found something, I wouldn't have expected from
the Caholic University Washington D.C .....
Ok, they have a department of space science and applied physics, so, why
not design a VG bizjet ?
Some data : 4 GE 1/J1B engines with 8.500 lbs dry thrust and 15.000 lbs with
reheat, length 85 ft, span 57.5ft/38 ft (unswept/swept).
(From Avaition Week May 1967)

 

[blackkite]

Hi all! JAXA's SSBJ wind tunnel test model which test speed is mach 1.6.

 

[blackkite]

Other pictures. These pictures were taken in Pterosaurs exhibition in Tokyo.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Looks like somebody read the last pages of Brown's "Day Of The Cheetah" and took that as inspiration.

 

[kenneth]

any more information about the kentron design (reply 5) and cotholic university design (reply 11)? in particular, does kentron refer to the south african or u s company?

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

The JAXA SSBJ.....it's beautiful.

I've been on a Dale Brown kick lately with my extracurricular AutoCAD projects.


I think I may tinker the JAXA SSBJ. I'm turning that baby into the XF-5B Tracer. Described at the end of DAY OF THE CHEETAH as a medium-sized B1-like plane with wings that sweep forward and aft, I think JAXA's design sorta hits that book's concept right on the money.

Look out AutoCAD, here I come.

Moonbat

 

[Jemiba]

In the march issue of last years Le Fana, the Dassault Falcon 75 was shown
(http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4312.0/highlight,falcon%2075.html),
but still yet, I haven't found another source. Has someone of you ? ???

 

[gtg947h]

First problem is the lack of a correct engine. Military engines are too maintenance costly. Modifying them would be to expensive for such a reduced market - 300 aircrafts only! -
adapting the core of a big civilian turbofan is too costly and the engine would be overweight for the aircraft.
Creating a brand new engine would be too expensive...

Even if this problem was solved, there's still the problem of fuel mass which already doomed Concorde. I remember an article on the Dassault project in Science&vie (aviation 1999). They noticed that 2/3 of the fuselage length were full of... fuel tanks.

don't forget the sonic boom problem...

It seem that supersonic civilian transport is a dead end

Engines: I've seen several proposals that call for using an in-service low-bypass turbofan like the JT8D or Tay.

Fuel:

Sonic boom: There are methods being researched to reduce the boom, basically involving airframe shaping and some things like the extended nose on the VG Gulfstream concept.

It's not a dead end; the biggest obstacle is the sonic boom issue. Nobody wants to buy a supersonic airplane that they can't fly supersonic most of the time. Solve that problem, and you have a market.

 

[Just call me Ray]

It's not a dead end; the biggest obstacle is the sonic boom issue. Nobody wants to buy a supersonic airplane that they can't fly supersonic most of the time. Solve that problem, and you have a market.

The biggest issue isn't the sonic boom, the biggest issue is money. A lot of money has been dumped into sonic boom research, but how many manufacturers are willing to dump the money to actually use that research to design and build a new plane design, especially in a market that right now isn't so hot for traditional, proven subsonic types?

And while we're on money, fuel is very expensive. Even the JT8D-215, the most fuel efficient of the series (and a true high-bypass engine) is considered a gas guzzler today, and that's just flying at subsonic speeds. Nevermind that it seems like certain groups either believe or are actively pushing for the extinction of aviation as a whole, it seems (Obama has made it a speech point to reduce the amount of flying miles)

 

[chornedsnorkack]

It's not a dead end; the biggest obstacle is the sonic boom issue. Nobody wants to buy a supersonic airplane that they can't fly supersonic most of the time. Solve that problem, and you have a market.

The biggest issue isn't the sonic boom, the biggest issue is money. A lot of money has been dumped into sonic boom research, but how many manufacturers are willing to dump the money to actually use that research to design and build a new plane design, especially in a market that right now isn't so hot for traditional, proven subsonic types?

And while we're on money, fuel is very expensive. Even the JT8D-215, the most fuel efficient of the series (and a true high-bypass engine) is considered a gas guzzler today, and that's just flying at subsonic speeds.

Yes, but if you have a look at the subsonic types, Gulfstream V or A39 Corporate Jetliner carry a tiny VIP payload relative to their total fuel burn, if you compare them with all-coach airliners of similar size. The buyers pay for the fuel, pay for the money and pay for the development. A true supersonic business jet would have a smaller cabin than a subsonic jet off similar fuel burn, but getting there faster would be worth it for its few VIP traveller. However, the issue is how much value they get for their money - it would be bad if they are restricted to subsonic flight overland.

 

[Just call me Ray]

Yes, but if you have a look at the subsonic types, Gulfstream V or A39 Corporate Jetliner carry a tiny VIP payload

Yes, and that tiny VIP payload is under a lot of government scrutiny right now, especially the last time they tried to buy a corporate jet (Citigroup when they tried to buy a Falcon 7x).

It's just not a good time right now.

 

[Apophenia]

... does kentron refer to the south african or u s company?

US. For earlier (and non-VG) NASA/Kentron work see: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4786.msg39556/