Various Messerschmitt projects

[hesham]

Also a strange thing,

the Messerschmitt Me.271 ?,was it a real one ?.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Messerschmitt-Me-271-bz-V8-1943-1-72-Bird-Models-Resinbausatz-resin-kit-/252414484613

 

[Jemiba]

The description ("coated with a breathable material", "would have let air into the airframe even without a dedicated
intake trunk"), to my opinon places it in the category "fiction".
And the sources seem to be very vague indeed. :

 

[hesham]

The description ("coated with a breathable material", "would have let air into the airframe even without a dedicated
intake trunk"), to my opinon places it in the category "fiction".
And the sources seem to be very vague indeed. :

OK my dear Jemiba,I agree with you it's fake;

but we must know that,the Me.271 was (Blitz Zerstorer) or a ramjet fighter Project,so maybe
this design was close to its shape,but it is not it.

 

[hesham]

Anther Mystery;

the Messerschmitt Me.565 Vulkan was a jet torpedo bomber Project;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aircraft_of_Germany_by_manufacturer

 

[Jemiba]

There's a mention in wikipedia without any source and a handful of sites, that mirror
exactly that "information".
So, I would say "Allegedly there was a project for a jet torpedo bomber with the designation Me 565,
but so far not a single evidence is known"
IF there really was such a project, it probably was in an early design stage and then the allocation
of a name ("Vulkan") is highly improbably, to my opinion.
So, again, please be VERY careful with statements like "The XXX was a ... project" . That's exactly the
way "projects" like the Klagenfurt 225 and others were generated and kept alive by repeating such
nonsense again and again. :

 

[hesham]

My dear Jemiba,

in this section of Wikipedia,no fake aircraft was mentioned,and of course they have a
source for that,we can ask them,from where you get this,and as you see some of those
sources we don't have.

There was some of little known Germany aircraft,we still ignore,such as a Junkers
VTOL fighter Project.

 

[Jemiba]

Nothing against wikipedia, very good for writing school homeworks and so on .
And yes, the one (!), who wrote that article, probably found the "Me 565" somewhere.
But it isn't mentioned and all the other mentions on the internet seem to go round
in circles. NO source is mentioned anywhere ! The designation "Me 565" would have been
assigned by the RLM and we have a thread about those designations here, too. But still
yet, I've found no mention of that number. Of course, there are gaps, but it's not useful
anyway to "fill" them with unproven data.
"We can ask them. ..."
Yes please, and I would strongly recommend for the next time to ask them BEFORE stating,
that there was such a project. And if you'll get an answer about the original source, you should
check, if it is plausible and reliable one.
And no, we don't "ignore little known German aircraft", but, as said often enough before, especially
this theme is full of misinterpretations, errors, fakes and probably even of deliberate misinformation
by sources, which may appear as absolutely reliable and doubtless at first glance (designers/constructors,
who tried to hoke their life career, probably ). And many of us are busy in other fields, so not able to check
such hasty reactions. And then, others searching for the "Me 565" get a hit list including the SPF, hopefully
still regarded as a trustable source ... Reading this posts here already may appear too much for, say, someone
who looks for suitable types for the next Resin kit.
Perhaps you should compare mentions of such unknown types with anonymous letters to the Egyptian tax office,
saying that you sold 500 cars during the last year. Would you really be accepting a tax bill based on such a letter ?

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Jemiba,

until we get reliable sources.

 

[hesham]

Here is a Messerschmitt P.1103 7 P.1104 in details.

 

[hesham]

Here is a Messerschmitt P.1103 7 P.1104 in details.

The source;

Waffen-Arsenal 118 - Bachem Ba 349 Natter

 

[redstar72]

Also a strange thing,

the Messerschmitt Me.271 ?,was it a real one ?.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Messerschmitt-Me-271-bz-V8-1943-1-72-Bird-Models-Resinbausatz-resin-kit-/252414484613

Here is the source for "Me 271bz Blitz-Zerstorer":
http://roswell.greyfalcon.us/Me271bz.html

But the model from your link doesn't look like this anyway; rather it looks like normal aircraft, fully plausible, with normal turbojets and normal air intakes. Moreover, it looks much like some real Lippisch projects of P.09, P.10 or P.11 series. Probably the model represents one of these real projects, but under fictitious designation?

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Redstar.

 

[hesham]

In my files,

during the BFW period,Mr. Willy Messerschmitt had many little known Projects,most of
them wasn't in "M" series,such as, a two seat trainer,who hear about it ?.

 

[hesham]

In my files,

and during BFW period,Messerschmitt designed a postal airplane Project,maybe taken
the "P" designation,any idea ?.

 

[hesham]

A big surprise also in my files,

and during BFW period (1930s),Messerschmitt designed an Amphibian Project,I guess
it was from early "P" series.

 

[sienar]

A big surprise also in my files,

and during BFW period (1930s),Messerschmitt designed an Amphibian Project,I guess
it was from early "P" series.

Pretty sure this has been posted elsewhere on this forum but I can't find it right now.

Its a very goofy looking design with treads for the main gear. A single mockup built. The design was not done by Willy Messerschmitt but another engineer at BFW.

 

[hesham]

A big surprise also in my files,

and during BFW period (1930s),Messerschmitt designed an Amphibian Project,I guess
it was from early "P" series.

Pretty sure this has been posted elsewhere on this forum but I can't find it right now.

Its a very goofy looking design with treads for the main gear. A single mockup built. The design was not done by Willy Messerschmitt but another engineer at BFW.

No,it was for the designer Messerschmitt.

 

[hesham]

Also in my files,

he designed under BFW period,a heavy transport airplane Project,maybe it
was taken the "P" designation ?.

 

[hesham]

he designed under BFW period,a heavy transport airplane Project,maybe it
was taken the "P" designation ?.

Nice find my dear Dan,

and also in my files; Messerschmitt designed anther heavy transport airplane Project,
powered by two BMW Hornet engines,maybe it was taken a "P" designation ?.

 

[hesham]

Also in my files,

also during BFW period,Messerschmitt designed a high-speed postal airplane Project,
intended for Canada ?.

 

[hesham]

In my files,

also during BFW period,Messerschmitt designed a record breaker airplane Project,
it was not related to M-34 ?.

 

[hesham]

In my files,

and for Messerschmitt "M" Projects,there was a three engined version
of M-18d.

 

[hesham]

Also in my files,

and under "M" designation,there was a Project for M-24,but fitted with
three engines ?.

 

[hesham]

Anther Mystery,

and also under the "M" designation,there was a variant from M-20 with
three motors as a Project ?.

 

[hesham]

Also in my files,

and under "M" designation,there was a Project for M-24,but fitted with
three engines ?.

There was also anther Project to M-24 with a three engines,but those motors
identified as Argus AS-10.

 

[hesham]

Also in my files,

Messerschmitt M-20 had a variant powered by four engines as a Project ?.

 

[hesham]

Also in my files,

There was a Project from M-28,but it was not as a mailplane,it was a transport aircraft ?.

 

[sienar]

To answer some of Heshams questions;

M 34 was for a very long range aircraft powered by two diesels burried in the fuselage, which would drive a single prop on mounted on a boom above the wing (I'm guessing it would look similar to some modern motor gliders). Crusing speed was to have been 350km/h with a range of 20000km(!!!!). Nicknamed "antipode-aircraft" due to this half world spanning range.

M 18d was a proposed 6 passenger version with 3 different engines offered (Siemens S-12, Walter Mars, Wright Whirlwind) This was not a trimotor.

The above data is all from Messerschmitt Aircraft Designer by Armand van Ishoven

I'll post some scans and details of the M32 and M33 in a bit.

 

[hesham]

To answer some of Heshams questions;

M 18d was a proposed 6 passenger version with 3 different engines offered (Siemens S-12, Walter Mars, Wright Whirlwind) This was not a trimotor.

The above data is all from Messerschmitt Aircraft Designer by Armand van Ishoven

Thank you my dear Sienar,

and the source is different,but I don't remember it now,for M-18d,there was a three motor Project variant,
remained a Project only,I know there was a Project equipped with three different engines,but it was not it.

 

[hesham]

Nice find Sgeorges.

 

[sgeorges4]

Just need to be confirm,I found this Startwagen me 262 in "Le Fana de l'aviation n°396,november 2002":

Me 264 startwagen:

 

[Justo Miranda]

"La voie ferrée:une piste à suivre" by Paul Malmassari, Le Fanatique de l'Aviation Nº 396 pp.32

 

[sgeorges4]

http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Messerscmitt%20AG.htm
How many me 321?
BT 1000 on me 163:

 

[sienar]

163 with gunpods from here https://www.uni-stuttgart.de/presse/archiv/themenheft/09/neunhoeffer.pdf

The pdf has some other drawings of lippisch designs, but unfortunately they are quite low resolution.

 

[sienar]

Sounds like this was actually a lippisch project misidentified as messerschmitt, but maybe someone can dig up the referenced report to find out for sure

"the Messerschmitt P-1114, a prototype jet that
was nearly complete in April 1945, had a swept-wing structure that
could be shifted fore and aft along the fuselage to compensate for
center of lift movement as flight speeds increased."

"AAF TR No. 540, "Description of Project P01-114 Under Construc-
tion," 6 March 1946. The P-1114 had more than a casual resemblance to
the X-4 tailless aircraft built by Northrop for the Air Force and NACA
four years later. Based on a Lippisch design, the P-1114 was intended
to fly in the Mach 1.2 to 1.5 range at altitudes above 45,000 feet"

http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/AD0659735

 

[hesham]

Good Info my dear Sienar,

and that's proof there was a series after Me P-1112,ended by P-1116 at finishing
the WWII.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Good Info my dear Sienar,

and that's proof there was a series after Me P-1112,ended by P-1116 at finishing
the WWII.

Curious. The full title of the document that Perry notes as the source for his P 1114 reference would appear to be "A F-TS540-RE Description of the project P 01-114 under construction (Projektbaubeschreibung P 01-114). Messerschmitt A.G. ADRC". It's referred to in this list: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-30683.html. I don't have that tech report but I do have a copy of Projektbaubeschreibung P 01-114 and it very much does not outline the aircraft he claims it does (see attached). It is a Lippisch project, and the design was tailless, and it was certainly studied with a variety of different swept wings... but it wasn't supersonic. I think there's been some sort of mix-up or misunderstanding somewhere along the line. It's not impossible that there was some sort of P 1114 but Perry's 1967 RAND report doesn't seem to go very far towards confirming it, given the above.

 

[sienar]

From Flugzeug Classic Jan/17

 

[newsdeskdan]

From Flugzeug Classic Jan/17

Both well known. The latter from the Feb 1945 1-TL-Jager report. Surely Flugzeug Classic can do better than this.

 

[sienar]

Are there any drawings or photos of the mockup of the P1034? Some sources state that there were two mock ups made, and apparently one of them or the v1 was fitted with a mockup of the bmw 116.