Various Heinkel Projects and Prototypes

[Flitzer]

Hi all.
It's been a while but not had anytime due to work, home projects and lack of working software.


More Heinkels...


P

 

[Jemiba]

Good to see you back here again !
The P.1078 would cut a fine figur in the next Star Wars episode !

 

[Stargazer]

Very nice to hear from you again, Flitzer, and to see that you seem to be in top shape!

 

[Flitzer]

Many thanks. Glad to be back. Missed it so much.


These are some of my old ones. I have not been able to do any new profiles for ages, but I'm going to take drastic action. After talking to someone who seems to know about computers, more than I at least, says my software problems may be simply a matter of resetting the iMac to factory settings. It won't make things worse, so I'll give it a try come the weekend.


P

 

[Wurger]

So nice to have you here with us. Welcome back!

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is the Heinkel He.112 in details.

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/He%20112/He112_01.pdf

 

[Stargazer]

Hardly a project.... but nice all the same, thanks.

 

[hesham]

Hardly a project.... but nice all the same, thanks.

Thank you my dear Skyblazer.

 

[joncarrfarrelly]

Hardly a project....

That's debatable as the whole A series were so different from the true production aircraft, the He 112 B.
The He 112 A was really just a series of test aircraft.

 

[hesham]

P.1090 was based on P.1080 and developed from it.

Via my dear Richard,


and it's new for most of members,the Hienkel P.1090 was single seat tailless fighter
project,developed from P.1080,the wing had different shape.

 

[hesham]

from the same source :
P 1054 1942 2xmotors transport

So weird,in the book; Secret Nazi Aircraft 1939 -1945 Luftwaffe's Advanced Aircraft Projects,
they mention that the Heinkel P.1054 was a four engined transport aircraft,and maybe anther
variant of it was a six engined long-range bomber,who can explain that ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi Newsdeskdan,


I agree with this,the P.1054 was twin engined aircraft project and not four,and it was
a misprint.

 

[Stargazer]

Again with the Crocker eh? Again, from German Aircraft: New and Projected Types:

I would guess that Crocker purchased the extremely low res David Myhra repro of German Aircraft: New and Projected Types on Amazon (available in two parts) and then couldn't read the corrected typo where the '5' has been changed to a '6' in P.1064.

Thanks a lot for this clear explanation and the scans, newsdeskdan. I love it when a myth or a typo is debunked in such an authoritative and effortless way!!

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Heinkel P.1078A in details.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


in 1945,Heinkel developed a layout of an experimental helicopter project ?.

 

[Wurger]

Dear Hesham, where did you read about it?

 

[hesham]

My dear Wurger,


give me some time,and I will remember the source,maybe a site,book or magazine,I will
search from now.

 

[hesham]

in 1945,Heinkel developed a layout of an experimental helicopter project ?.

The source;

"X-planes - German Luftwaffe Prototypes 1930-1945" by Manfred Griehl, Casemate 2012

 

[hesham]

From Flugzeug Classic Special 10,

here is a Heinkel P.1077 in details.

 

[Apteryx]

...
Heinkel P.1068/01 83 was a low wing four turbojets bomber
and Heinkel P.1068/01 84 was a different design to four
turbojets bomber with swept back wing.

Hi. I'm wondering whether the variant designs done for P 1068 are all identified and whether drawings survive. The below photo comes from Jet Planes of the Third Reich, Vol.2 by Manfred Griehl. The top model looks close to the drawings for P 1068.01.84. The others I'm less sure about.

 

[hesham]

Hi. I'm wondering whether the variant designs done for P 1068 are all identified and whether drawings survive. The below photo comes from Jet Planes of the Third Reich, Vol.2 by Manfred Griehl. The top model looks close to the drawings for P 1068.01.84. The others I'm less sure about.

Nice find Apteryx,

and here is a drawings to Heinkel He.219.

Waffen Arsenal S-76

 

[Wingknut]

Plan views of Heinkel P.1065-related projects:
http://alternathistory.com/proekty-skorostnykh-bombardirovshchikov-heinkel-r-1065-i-r-1066-germaniya

 

[blackkite]

P1065 Ⅲ's shape was similar to P1055 and He119.
P1055's engine was DB613(twin DB603) and P1065 Ⅲ's engine was DB619(twin DB609).
What is the device which located fuselage front side?
Anti-inflammatory exhaust pipe?


https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfreak/10288485734
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/makfreak/10288581056/

Heinkel p 1055.01-16 Heavy escort fighter
Span : 19.25m, Length : 15.35m, Height : 4.95m, Wing Area : 45m2, Mean Weight : 11,000kg, Maximum soeed : 720km/h at 9000m, Service ceiling : 11,000m, Armament : 3×MG151 in mid dorsal turret, 4×MG131 in rear dorsal turret, 4×MG131 in vertical turret, Engine : DB613C/D 3800hp

 

[blackkite]

Another opinion for engine ram air intake position.
But exhaust nozzle position of this model is little strange for me because the engine of P 1055 is a inverted type as you already know.
B&V P163.01 had a DB613 engine,too.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/makfreak/10288608176/in/photostream/

http://alternathistory.com/ustanovka-na-dvigatele-db-613-motor-pushki-mk-412?mini=calendar%252F2015-12

http://www.miliamperios.com/foro/aviacion-militar-f24/proyectos-inconclusos-aeronautica-alemana-t137580-120.html

 

[Tonton-42]

Another opinion for engine ram air intake position.
But exhaust nozzle position of this model is little strange for me because the engine of P 1055 is a inverted type as you already know.
B&V P163.01 had a DB613 engine,too.

Magnificent realization (however propellers have their blades gone up back to front !!!).

The plane is very interresting ! A flying model, may be ?

Friendly

Tonton

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
I think that P1055 engine ram air intakes were located wing root leading edge same as He100, He219 and He119(and F8F).
But I can't understand that this position is good for ram air intake. ???
This position is good to get cool air? For low drag?

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=100815&d=1405075820
141 : ram air intakes
139 and 31 : induction air duct

Bottom picture
62 : Supercharger air intake
63 : Supercharger
http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Magazine-Articles/Heinkel-Uhu/Heinkel-He219-Uhu-2-960
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27862259@N02/6442186009

 

[blackkite]

I can see three periscopes in this drawing and this model.
Front one is for MG151(20mm cannon) and rear two are for MG131(13mm gun).
Also I can see four fixed guns at the wing of this model?
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/guns.html

 

[fightingirish]

Hello, three versions of the P.1077 from Model Art #348
1. Julia
2. Julia II
3. Romeo

More pictures:
http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/geschichte/flugzeuge/heinkel-p-1077-raketenjaeger-julia/522140/fsuebersicht
Source (German):
http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/geschichte/flugzeuge/raketenjaeger-julia-heinkels-geheimes-projekt-p-1077-ob-ein-prototyp-erprobt-wurde-ist-bis-heute-unklar/487969?seite=4

 

[blackkite]

Super drawings!

 

[blackkite]

If this Heinkel P 1065 Ⅲｃ plan view drawing is correct, I think it's hard to have engine ram air intake at the wing root leading edge.
Ummm..... :-[
Engine exhaust pipe front shape is strange compared with He219's shape.....
Was this device engine ram air intake+engine exhaust pipe which applied ejector mechanism to increase engine take off power at low speed?
And this device reduce ram air intake drag?

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/luftwaffephotos/lhe2194.htm

 

[blackkite]

http://horseformer.blogspot.jp/2014/03/the-story-of-heinkel-219-uhu-i-owl-in.html

『A private venture by Heinkel, the P.1055, as the prototype was known, was to have been a high speed, high altitude reconnaissance plane, and featured the latest in aviation technology. It had tricycle landing gear, a pressurized cabin, and provisions for compressed air ejection seats which had been developed for the He 280 jet fighter prototype. Other features included a contra-rotating propeller and further engine tweaks, adding a combined supercharger-turbocharger with methanol-water injection for superior high altitude performance, producing an (estimated) 3,500 horsepower. For defense, it was to have twin remote turrets instead of a tail gunner. With great aerodynamics and a heavy bomber engine powering it, P.1055 was projected to have performance like that of a later-era De Havilland Mosquito: a 700 km/h top speed with a 3,500 km range. The war situation was so rosy for Germany at this point initial pitches emphasized that P.1055 would be useful post war as a long range mapping plane, when Germany would own vast chunks of Africa, the mideast, and various other untermenchen lands. A few of these features would show up in the production He 219; specifically the twin tail, the pressurized cabin, and the tricycle landing gear.

The RLM showed some interest in P.1055, but was also non-committal. The main hangup for the RLM was the new technology involved, which would mean that P.1055 would only enter service in 1943, if not later. The RLM by this point had jet engine technology under development, they worried that the new aircraft might be superseded by jet designs by the time it entered service.』

Ummm....... ???

 

[Grey Havoc]

Certainly a major blunder on the RLM's part.

 

[Artie Bob]

IMHO-not an RLM blunder. Perhaps the major technical problem in German WW II aviation was the status of engine development. The higher power engines and turbo-charging were simply not ready for service by the end of the war. The closest was the BMW 801 with turbo-charging in the Ju 388s which were produced in small quantities and apparently never saw operational service (there is a possibility of a few operational flights, but so far I have not seen documentation). The BMW 801 could be very difficult to maintain and I have seen one report where a unit indicated over half of its aircraft were unserviceable because of BMW engine problems. When I analyzed losses of Ju 88s, I was surprised how many were lost to non-combat engine failures and fires and the Jumo 211 in the Ju 88 was considered one of the most reliable German engines. So any aircraft that relied on an advanced piston engine for improved performance would not have been a factor in WW II. The most advanced piston engines were the DB 603 and JUMO 213 (which was two years late in reaching service units).

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

 

[Grey Havoc]

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

On the other hand, a lot of that engine schedule slippage was due to the resources being poured into jet development. So if some relatively small fraction of that effort had been redirected to developing engines for the P.1055, it could have led to an extremely valuable strategic reconnaissance platform for the Luftwaffe.

 

[blackkite]

Thanks a lot. Anyway P1055 is a mysterious aircraft for me. I think perhaps see P1055 through side view drawing that I can see by internet(Luft46) is near original one.
I want to see especially outer shape side view drawing and plan view drawing which must be survived still now.(Looks like P1065 Ⅲc?)

This book says that P1055.01-16 powerplant was one turbocharged 3,800hp Daimler-Benz DB613C/D.
If so, the device located both side of the fuselage behind the cabin were ram air intake(located front end of the device) for turbocharger and engine exhaust gas outlet nozzle(located tail end of the device) from turbo charger. Twin turbochargers were located inside of the fuselage.

 

[Artie Bob]

IMHO German jet development did not draw much of its resources from German piston engine development. Heinkel's turbine work was done by a company with no major piston engine production programs. Both BMW and Junkers turbine development groups were separate departments and sometimes different locations from the piston engine groups. Long before turbines were a high priority, the Jumo 211J version was over one year late in reaching production. Also the Jumo 222 program was also in deep trouble as early as 1940. I do not have a lot of information on the DB situation. If you have any primary documentation that gives data on transfer of engine development personnel from piston to turbines, please present references and I would appreciate the opportunity to check them out.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

 

[hesham]

In my files,

a Germany designer in Heinkel confirmed that at least five experimental P.1077 had
been completed before March 1945,three of them had been launched ?!.

 

[Apophenia]

a Germany designer in Heinkel confirmed that at least five experimental P.1077 had
been completed before March 1945,three of them had been launched ?!.

There seems to be some debate over built P.1077s. By most accounts, the first prototype was finished at the Heinkel works at Krems an der Donau in Dec 1944 but destroyed unflown during the bombing of Vienna on 22 Dec 1944.

Components for five other 'Julia' prototypes were completed at Krems/Donau by Tischlerei Geppert (a local wood joinery firm under Ernst Heinkel AG) before being moved to NSFK Fliegerschule Spitzerberg for assembly. According to Joachim Dressel (Natter - Bachem Ba 349 and other German Rocket Fighter Projects, PA Schiffer, 1994), two unpowered glider P.1007s were assembled at Spitzerberg.

Two other prototypes intended to receive Walter HWK 109-509 motors for flight-testing were only "90% complete" when the war ended. Components for the fifth prototype were never assembled.

I would imagine that in early 1945 the main focus for the Heinkel Flugzeugwerk-Neuhaus design offices, Krems/Donau, and Fliegerschule Spitzerberg would have been on perfecting, building, and training for the He 162.

 

[hesham]

That's right my dear Apophenia,

and Soviet force occupied the main development site in Neuhaus on the
Triesting river.

 

[hesham]

Here is a Heinkel P.1068.
(Waffen-Arsenal 118 - Bachem Ba 349 Natter)