VA (L) Competition - alternatives to the A-7

[andy_d]

Was the Buccaneer ever considered by the US Navy?

 

[Pioneer]

Was the Buccaneer ever considered by the US Navy?

An interesting question!!
Especially so when one considers that the U.S funded the Buccaneer's development via U.S Government / military aid (....sorry I have forgotten the correct title of the funding program). Not to mention that with this funding came very transparent and frequent U.S Navy appraisal and inspections. But I assume that you might already be aware of this fact
Would the Buccaneer have been somewhat to big and heavy a design?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[TomS]

The US did briefly evaluate the Buccaneer (in fact, there was a USN pilot on secondment as part of the RN 700Z Flight evaluators), but the A-6 was selected for that requirement. The Bucc was never a contender for VA(L), AFAIK.

PS: If the Bucc had been adopted by the USN, the process would have been something like the USAF adoption of Canberra. A US builder would have been found and a lot of redesign would have followed. At a minimum, there would have been US engines and avionics.

 

[andy_d]

The Allison TF41 was a licence-built Spey, I believe - so would it have been simple to replace the Buccaneer's RR Speys? And might the Buccaneer subsequently have gone through a similarly extensive programme of development to the B-57? EW and reconnaissance versions...?

 

[circle-5]

NA-295 from another angle. The stand describes this one as a Night Attack Aircraft.

Note main undercarriage wing fairings, horizontal stab dihedral, wing fences, no cannon, no wingtip missile rails, etc. This airplane is quite different from the AF-1F.

Sorry about the focus (not my shot).

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Well that's a beauty! I like this!

NA was really trying to wring that last bit of use from the Fury's design!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Nope, that was hit with the ugly stick. Face like a bag of spanners.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

It would be the flying embodiment of the Rolling Stones logo.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Is there any more on the AF-1F?

 

[hesham]

Here is a 3-view to NA-295.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Hesham, you're awesome! Thanks, dude!

 

[hesham]

Hesham, you're awesome! Thanks, dude!

Many thanks my dear,and the source is;

Штурмовик "Корсар" II. От Вьетнамской войны до "Бури в пустыне"

 

[Pioneer]

Hah, if the NA-295 had of won VAL, it seriously would have been entitled to the title SLUF!!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[hesham]

Hah, if the NA-295 had of won VAL, it seriously would have been entitled to the title SLUF!!

Regards
Pioneer

My dear Poineer,

in USAF or USN competitions,always the improved of developed versions of old aircraft lost,they
want a new shapes.

 

[Pioneer]

I just read in 'Flying Wings & Radical Things' by Tony Chong, that 'Northrop submitted it's N-285B Navy Light Fighter design to the VAL compation' [Page 158-159]

Regards
Pioneer

 

[velithcoigor]

The attack aircraft "Corsair" II. From the Vietnam War to Desert Storm That's what I wrote. I would be happy to be of service!
('Штурмовик "Корсар" II. От Вьетнамской войны до "Бури в пустыне" That's what I wrote. Я был бы счастлив быть полезным!)

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Are there anymore contenders for this requirement which haven't been mentioned?

 

[velithcoigor]

Are there anymore contenders for this requirement which haven't been mentioned?

I don't know.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Grumman A-6 (VAL): Thanks, US. Navy.

The US. Navy’s VAL (Heavier-than-air, Attack, Light) requirement was placed to replace their A-4s. Its key demand was that the resulting aircraft has be in some way a modification of an opera…

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[elmayerle]

The Allison TF41 was a licence-built Spey, I believe - so would it have been simple to replace the Buccaneer's RR Speys? And might the Buccaneer subsequently have gone through a similarly extensive programme of development to the B-57? EW and reconnaissance versions...?

Different variant of the Spey. IIRC, the engine in the Buccaneer is based on the so-called "Spey Jr" while the TF41 is based on the Spey. It's been a long time since I looked into that, but that's what I remember. If memory serves me correctly, there is a difference in engine diameter.

 

[apparition13]

The Allison TF41 was a licence-built Spey, I believe - so would it have been simple to replace the Buccaneer's RR Speys? And might the Buccaneer subsequently have gone through a similarly extensive programme of development to the B-57? EW and reconnaissance versions...?

Different variant of the Spey. IIRC, the engine in the Buccaneer is based on the so-called "Spey Jr" while the TF41 is based on the Spey. It's been a long time since I looked into that, but that's what I remember. If memory serves me correctly, there is a difference in engine diameter.

The initial engine in the S.1 was the Gyron Junior. The engine in the S.2 model was the Spey.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the Swedish RB04 was ever looked at for use on the Buccaneer? I'd think it would have been a good match for the anti-shipping mission.

 

[Pioneer]

The Allison TF41 was a licence-built Spey, I believe - so would it have been simple to replace the Buccaneer's RR Speys? And might the Buccaneer subsequently have gone through a similarly extensive programme of development to the B-57? EW and reconnaissance versions...?

Different variant of the Spey. IIRC, the engine in the Buccaneer is based on the so-called "Spey Jr" while the TF41 is based on the Spey. It's been a long time since I looked into that, but that's what I remember. If memory serves me correctly, there is a difference in engine diameter.

The initial engine in the S.1 was the Gyron Junior. The engine in the S.2 model was the Spey.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the Swedish RB04 was ever looked at for use on the Buccaneer? I'd think it would have been a good match for the anti-shipping mission.

Re the Swedish RB04 anti-ship missile mated to the Buccaneer, I've often thought the exact same thing. It would have given the British an effective stand-off anti-ship capability years in advance.

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Archibald]

It just dawned on me that, had Grumman entry been chosen, we would have had
- 1-seat Intruders
- 2-seat Intruders
- 4-seat Intruders (the Prowler !)

Not all tactical aircraft can boast this.

 

[elmayerle]

The Allison TF41 was a licence-built Spey, I believe - so would it have been simple to replace the Buccaneer's RR Speys? And might the Buccaneer subsequently have gone through a similarly extensive programme of development to the B-57? EW and reconnaissance versions...?

Different variant of the Spey. IIRC, the engine in the Buccaneer is based on the so-called "Spey Jr" while the TF41 is based on the Spey. It's been a long time since I looked into that, but that's what I remember. If memory serves me correctly, there is a difference in engine diameter.

The initial engine in the S.1 was the Gyron Junior. The engine in the S.2 model was the Spey.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the Swedish RB04 was ever looked at for use on the Buccaneer? I'd think it would have been a good match for the anti-shipping mission.

Re the Swedish RB04 anti-ship missile mated to the Buccaneer, I've often thought the exact same thing. It would have given the British an effective stand-off anti-ship capability years in advance.

That brings to mind an interesting whif, a Swedish Buccaneer, in three-tone splinter, carrying RB04's.

 

[fightingirish]

It just dawned on me that, had Grumman entry been chosen, we would have had
- 1-seat Intruders
- 2-seat Intruders
- 4-seat Intruders (the Prowler !)

Not all tactical aircraft can boast this.

The different versions of the Douglas A-1 Skyraider have seats from 1 up to 4.

 

[BlackBat242]

The Allison TF41 was a licence-built Spey, I believe - so would it have been simple to replace the Buccaneer's RR Speys? And might the Buccaneer subsequently have gone through a similarly extensive programme of development to the B-57? EW and reconnaissance versions...?

The TF41 was developed in the mid-1960s for the USAF's A-7D (ordered 1965), and first flew in the A-7D in September 1968 (the two YA-7Ds flew in April 1968 with TF30s).

The Buccaneer S.2 (Spey-engined version) first flew in May 1963.

 

[Archibald]

The Allison TF41 was a licence-built Spey, I believe - so would it have been simple to replace the Buccaneer's RR Speys?

Now that's interesting, but only briefly otherwise - alternate history section not to clutter that thread.
Never realized that the British got Phantoms when Allison got the Spey - circa 1964. How about that !
Were the two deals even remotely related ?

And might the Buccaneer subsequently have gone through a similarly extensive programme of development to the B-57? EW and reconnaissance versions...?

Unfortunately both A-6 and F-111 were already in the place(s).