USAF/US NAVY 6th Generation Fighter Programs - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS news

It would seem to suggest that some of the weapons it is intended to use have pretty constrained speed ranges for deployment.
 
Everyone feel free to laugh or roll your eyes but could a lot of this be some thinking “look at the F-15EX look at the new ultra long range AA missiles plus CCA/loyal wingman ConOps do we really [re: can we] spend $300 million on a 6G fighter?”
 
bobbymike said:
Everyone feel free to laugh or roll your eyes but could a lot of this be some thinking “look at the F-15EX look at the new ultra long range AA missiles plus CCA/loyal wingman ConOps do we really [re: can we] spend $300 million on a 6G fighter?”
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I'm sure some people are thinking that, but when do the F-22s run out of service life? I'm assuming 16k hours total airframe life, with a major overhaul at 8k.

If the planes are getting 350hrs/year,** that means the 8k check happens about 22 years, and the plane reaches 16k in about 45 years. F-22s were built between 1996 and 2011, so we might be able to expect they'd last till ~2050 (give or take 5 years) and the fleet should be about halfway through getting the major overhaul done (~2018-2033).

** - F15A/B/C/Ds flew about that many hours a year on average, and F22s have the same mission.
 
dark sidius said:
And Lockheed is doing Zero communication about the NGAD, no promo video nothing..
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Zero? Lolwhat. The problem with you that you are not tracking events or just not remember them.
 
dark sidius said:
Something is going on with Boeing, we knew a lot of month before in 2015 that it was Northrop the winner of B-21, well before the official contract in my opinion it is the same with Boeing. And Lockheed is doing Zero communication about the NGAD, no promo video nothing..
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Yes, certainly interesting. Considering too Boeing's recent well-publicised troubles, this is significant; one doesn't make such investments based on a chance and hope. We often talk about whether a specific machine is better than another but a service has to consider the ability of a contractor to produce that machine too. It's interesting to link this with the rumours that Boeing's proposal was more radical compared to Lockheed's more evolutionary concept, and that while Boeing is in deep do-do, Lockheed has not covered itself in glory with the F-35 either, and overall it may show where doctrine on future air combat is tilting.

If you think the controversy of the YF-22 versus the YF-23 was a mess, wait and see how this plays out.
 
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Also in relation to folding V tails similar to this aircraft, here's a recent boeing patent on such a mechanism. Notable mentions is how lateral stability is maintained when folded down, i.e. yaw thrust vectoring and split surface.

 

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dark sidius said:
Something is going on with Boeing, we knew a lot of month before in 2015 that it was Northrop the winner of B-21, well before the official contract in my opinion it is the same with Boeing. And Lockheed is doing Zero communication about the NGAD, no promo video nothing..
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There has been plenty of investments that LM has made supporting its adv. mfg capabilities for aeronautics. They too have expanded sites in Palmdale and elsewhere. Of course its more difficult to throw a media tour for 6th gen fighter like Boeing when you've had to pause delivering your current fifth gen fighter.
 
dark sidius said:
It could make sense if USAF want to reduce the cost of NGAD , one engine make cheaper plane than a big two engines one, it seem Lockheed have 2 concepts
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The way I had seen the two was that one was an "Air Dominance Demonstrator" with the other being the actual NGAD proposal.
 
Scott Kenny said:
That 21deg angle between nose and wingtip. What's that work out to in terms of mach number?
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So I did a whole entire paper for my degree on the NGAD program and did a planform analysis on what was available. So using Sine^-1(1/M), we can get 21 degrees for that. So I plugged in values and got around Mach 2.79. Other things to keep in mind however , is that the actual profile of the nose can create some oblique shock relations , which also may affect the final angle.
 
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FlyGuy369 said:
So I did a whole entire paper for my degree on the NGAD program and did a planform analysis on what was available. So using Sine^-1(1/M), we can get 21 degrees for that. So I plugged in values and got around Mach 2.79.
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Whoa! that's moving right along!


FlyGuy369 said:
Other things to keep in mind however , is that the actual profile of the nose can create some oblique shock relations , which also may affect the final angle.
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Would those tend to reduce the final angle or increase it? or is that particular answer "yes"?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Whoa! that's moving right along!



Would those tend to reduce the final angle or increase it? or is that particular answer "yes"?
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It would increase the angle much to the same way a diverterless inlet works. I imagine most of you here have been in the game much longer than I have and know more than I could regarding these things. But yes, increase it.
 
FlyGuy369 said:
The way I had seen the two was that one was an "Air Dominance Demonstrator" with the other being the actual NGAD proposal.
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FlyGuy369 said:
Maybe an off the shelf engine that would represent a combined power to weight ratio proportional to a full scale vehicle.
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Excellent FlyGuy! Very possible -- I'm buying it.

Also may explain this photo...
www.twz.com

Mysterious Aircraft Spotted At Area 51 In Unprecedented Satellite Image (Updated)

A delta-shaped tailless fighter-sized aircraft that looks like nothing we've seen before calls the secretive base home.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 

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joewee said:
As best as my eyes can tell, the TWZ photo looks like a single-engine design.
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I see that too, my eyes focused on the upturned tips and the two small dark spots near the very back with the lighter segment in the middle.
 
Could have been three (3) air dominance demonstrators flown, one from each prime.

- NG. Demonstrated/flew an air vehicle with substantial performance and capabilities but directed to F/A-XX as the favorite.
- NG addendum. Has so-called RQ-180, B-21 and others. Will get F/A-XX.
- Boeing. Demonstrated/flew an air vehicle, probably already has the USAF NGAD due to new facilities construction.
- Boeing addendum. Needs USAF NGAD. Will not get F/A-XX.
- LM. Demonstrated/flew an air vehicle. Needs to keep F-35 on track. I assume new SR-type series vehicle and other programs.
- LM addendum. Will not get F/A-XX. LM will not have all three USAF fighters (F-22, F-35, USAF NGAD).

I think NG and LM have the brunt of other classified programs in the categories of medium to large vehicles/programs.

I could be way off with this but these are my predictions. Comments and insights always appreciated.
 
Rodrigo Avella said:
Hello! Perhaps we are looking here in a very very schematic way at Boeing's NGAD concept.
Regards!

View attachment 734514
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I'm certain you can render it with your talent and incorporate it into the Voodoo II we spoke of on Instagram. I'd love flyables of your work for MSFS2020. Perhaps we may very well be seeing their rendition, but whose to know at this point!
 
Hydroman said:
Could have been three (3) air dominance demonstrators flown, one from each prime.

- NG. Demonstrated/flew an air vehicle with substantial performance and capabilities but directed to F/A-XX as the favorite.
- NG addendum. Has so-called RQ-180, B-21 and others. Will get F/A-XX.
- Boeing. Demonstrated/flew an air vehicle, probably already has the USAF NGAD due to new facilities construction.
- Boeing addendum. Needs USAF NGAD. Will not get F/A-XX.
- LM. Demonstrated/flew an air vehicle. Needs to keep F-35 on track. I assume new SR-type series vehicle and other programs.
- LM addendum. Will not get F/A-XX. LM will not have all three USAF fighters (F-22, F-35, USAF NGAD).

I think NG and LM have the brunt of other classified programs in the categories of medium to large vehicles/programs.

I could be way off with this but these are my predictions. Comments and insights always appreciated.
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I think you hit the nail on the head with NG and F/A-XX, notice how beefy the gear looks (No launch bar though), I see dual nose wheels, a common carrier-based fighter characteristic.
 

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FlyGuy369 said:
I think you hit the nail on the head with NG and F/A-XX, notice how beefy the gear looks (No launch bar though), I see dual nose wheels, a common carrier-based fighter characteristic.
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You never know. The nose gear has the rotary steering actuator even though there is no launch bar. I think NG has been working the F/A-XX for a while. We'll see how things progress and see if the USAF NGAD announcement still occurs this year. It is amazing how the primes (and the USG) tease us with these little tidbits. Example, after Boeing was not selected for J-UCAS with their X-45C, all of a sudden and slowly we begin to see little bits of the MQ-25 being displayed, first the nose, then some fuselage then video of aircraft movement then we find out the MQ-25 had been in a hangar at Boeing St Louis since 2014 built completely with Boeing internal funds.

The saga continues, stay tuned.
 
B2Blain said:
Has it been determine what are "Variable Geometry Winglets" and what they do?
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Commonly, winglets serve as a method to reduce inefficiencies associated with fuel economy for aircraft. Maybe a part of the whole "cruiser and fighter" mentality.
 
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FlyGuy369 said:
Commonly, winglets serve as a method to reduce inefficiencies associated with fuel economy for aircraft. Maybe a part of the whole "cruiser and fighter" mentality.
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Yes, it is usually associated with reducing drag. But why would you need to retract it - going based on the variable geometry verbiage. Better maneuverability for ACM?
 
B2Blain said:
Yes, it is usually associated with reducing drag. But why would you need to retract it - going based on the variable geometry verbiage. Better maneuverability for ACM?
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I feel if we want to know more as to why, we have to revisit the HiMAT program. The layout is very telling and I'm willing to bet this has something to do with it.
 

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dark sidius said:

Senate Bill Drastically Cuts Already Reduced F/A-XX Spending | Aviation Week Network

Senate authorizers want to take almost all of the remaining funding away from the U.S. Navy’s fiscal 2025 budget request for its next-generation F/A-XX fighter.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
US leaders wants to let China dominate the sky.
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More bad news:
www.twz.com

Navy's F/A-XX Next Generation Fighter Program Would Be Gutted Under Senate Defense Bill

Questions about the future of both F/A-XX and the U.S. Air Force's Next Generation Air Dominance combat jet program are growing.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 

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