US officials object to European push to buy weapons locally

[Pioneer]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-officials-object-european-push-buy-weapons-locally-2025-0

How far can you take the notion of self-righteousness and dictate such demands?

I think it's very evident that many countries have evolved beyond the reliance on many U.S. weapons systems. Add to this that for sometime now, given countries around the world are making better and or cheaper weapons systems than the U.S.
Add to this the fact that some countries have infact been threatened or burnt by the U.S. and as a consequence learnt from this in becoming far more independent and weaning themselves off reliance of the U.S. - Turkey being a perfect example.
Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you see it, many countries are devising their own little Military/Political Industry Complexes as a means of their economies....



Regards
Pioneer

 

[martinbayer]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-officials-object-european-push-buy-weapons-locally-2025-0

How far can you take the notion of self-righteousness and dictate such demands?

I think it's very evident that many countries have evolved beyond the reliance on many U.S. weapons systems. Add to this that for sometime now, given countries around the world are making better and or cheaper weapons systems than the U.S.
Add to this the fact that some countries have infact been threatened or burnt by the U.S. and as a consequence learnt from this in becoming far more independent and weaning themselves off reliance of the U.S. - Turkey being a perfect example.
Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you see it, many countries are devising their own little Military/Political Industry Complexes as a means of their economies....



Regards
Pioneer

I wholeheartedly agree that at the very least under the current US administration Europe has to belatedly grow a pair or ten.

 

[Dilandu]

How far can you take the notion of self-righteousness and dictate such demands?

Welcome to the world, where most of mankind lives; the world, where USA are making outrageous demands and got sincerely confused why other peoples did not view the situation exactly as them.

 

[martinbayer]

Welcome to the world, where most of mankind lives; the world, where USA are making outrageous demands and got sincerely confused why other peoples did not view the situation exactly as them.

Hello Dilandu, I wholeheartedly agree with you, just as long as the decisions of those other peoples where presumably most of mankind lives are *verifiably* expressed and *objectively* documented in *free and fair* elections.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Welcome to the world, where most of mankind lives; the world, where USA are making outrageous demands and got sincerely confused why other peoples did not view the situation exactly as them.

People keep mentioning the Ukraine support situation as being a catalyst here, but that is abolutely not the case. Ukraine is not a longstanding ally and member of NATO.

What has damaged trust in the US as a provider of military equipment is threats to annex Canada and Greenland, statements that Europe has to look after its own defence, public and private statements of current administration showing utter loathing and contempt directed at Europe, and tariff wars.

If you repeatedly punch your friends in the stomach, don't be surprised if they start avoiding you.

 

[Dilandu]

People keep mentioning the Ukraine support situation as being a catalyst here, but that is abolutely not the case. Ukraine is not a longstanding ally and member of NATO.

What has damaged trust in the US as a provider of military equipment is threats to annex Canada and Greenland, statements that Europe has to look after its own defence, public and private statements of current administration showing utter loathing and contempt directed at Europe, and tariff wars.

If you repeatedly punch your friends in the stomach, don't be surprised if they start avoiding you.

Essentially it was not so much the situation changing, but merely the situation not happening before. There weren't any significant discord in US-EU relations for quite a long time, so Europeans basically started to assume US special attitude to them as granted. Like, "yeah, Americans are pushy, but su-re-ly they would never behave in such way toward us, civilized people". And they underestimated American exceptionalism rather seriously, again, assuming that American elites would never dare to use "screw the rules, I have the power!" against them.

 

[Dilandu]

If you repeatedly punch your friends in the stomach, don't be surprised if they start avoiding you.

It was kinda more complicated. America is, in general, more worried about China and Pacific, than Europe and Atlantic. Europe, on the other hand, mostly not interested in Pacific and would NOT want to participate in any hostilities with China. Americans don't understand, why they should be committed to defense of Europe, if Europe refused to committ itself to opposing China. Europeans don't understand why USA insist on them opposing China, which is not in European interests at all.

Basically, it's kind of friends drifting apart because their interests are not align anymore.

 

[DWG]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-officials-object-european-push-buy-weapons-locally-2025-04-02/

(NB, updated URL)

How far can you take the notion of self-righteousness and dictate such demands?

On a similar theme https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...k-to-free-speech-caused-by-online-safety-laws

TLDR: State Department objecting to UK's Online Safety laws.

It's very apparent they're only concerned with US-right-wing backed 'Christian' protesters, and have no issue with, for instance, prosecutions of climate change protesters, which are the things actually raising concerns about free speech and the balance of laws within the UK. (And freely happening in the US).

The US has always had an issue with accepting that other people may have different priorities than they do, but it now seems to be moving to an 'our way or no way' approach, without understanding how that's going to be viewed by non-USians.

 

[1635yankee]

It was kinda more complicated. America is, in general, more worried about China and Pacific, than Europe and Atlantic. Europe, on the other hand, mostly not interested in Pacific and would NOT want to participate in any hostilities with China. Americans don't understand, why they should be committed to defense of Europe, if Europe refused to committ itself to opposing China. Europeans don't understand why USA insist on them opposing China, which is not in European interests at all.

Basically, it's kind of friends drifting apart because their interests are not align anymore.

I think Americans, as individuals, may understand better than you're giving them credit. I think it's more a cultural thing among some Americans that a) the rest of the World should consider themselves beholden and b) obedient. Complicate this with a head of state who seems to behave like a subordinate to an autocrat who ordered the invasion of a neighboring country, a head of state that immediately abrogates treaties, and threatens to abrogate more, one should not be surprised if "trustworthy" is no longer applied to the US.

 

[Stargazer]

But then, what to expect when the leader of the country that was at the helm of the North Atlantic Treaty has clearly stated that he wanted out?? What logic would there be in "we no longer want to actively defend you but we still want you to buy our weapons? European countries are more than capable of producing quality hardware and weapons? The only reason why Europe continued to rely upon US material was political — our leaders didn't want to alienate America, because ultimately they knew it was the ultimate safeguard of world democracy. Now that it's clear that US policies are headed in another direction, it makes every sense to finally shake off this uneven relationship and work together to help ourselves.

 

[Dilandu]

I think Americans, as individuals, may understand better than you're giving them credit.

As individuals - yes, of course. But nations are running on average numbers, not individual traits.

 

[Dilandu]

because ultimately they knew it was the ultimate safeguard of world democracy

That's was essentially one of the reasons of the split. Both sides weren't acting pragmatically toward each other. They essentially assumed that "we are ideologically close, so we are natural allies" - which was a grave mistake, repeated, of course, numerous times in history. It's like Bismark (the author of "realpolitik" concept) underestimated the possibility of Russo-French alliance, because he assumed that ideological differences ("Tsar and Marseillaise would never mix") would keep two nations from realizing that they have common enemy and not much conflicting points. The EU assumed that ideological similarity with US - at least partially imagined - would keep US and EU as natural allies, despite their pragmatic interests not being aligned anymore.

 

[Orionblamblam]

It's very apparent they're only concerned with US-right-wing backed 'Christian' protesters, and have no issue with, for instance, prosecutions of climate change protesters, which are the things actually raising concerns about free speech and the balance of laws within the UK. (And freely happening in the US).

The Christian protestors are basically just using speech - or even silence - and getting smacked around by the British government. Climate "protestors" on both sides of the pond are blocking traffic, damaging property public and private, threatening harm. The two are not equivalent in terms of "free speech."

But then, Britain has decided to institute two-tier justice with the native population being subjected to greater punishment than foreigners who want to mess with Britain. That's baffling.

 

[Arjen]

A long time ago, in a universe far far away, when somebody tried selling goods to somebody else, they had this curious notion being nice to a prospective customer would help secure a sell ... hang on, I must be getting old ... must be me confusing the extortion game with the shopkeepers of my youth.

Silly me. "Buy my stuff, or I will thump you" - works every time, right?

 

[DWG]

The Christian protestors are basically just using speech - or even silence - and getting smacked around by the British government.

It would have taken you five seconds to check this and ascertain they violated a no-harassment zone in order to harass women seeking an abortion. They could legally do exactly the same thing from outside the no-harassment zone, but they chose to breach the law. That's not exercising freedom of speech, it's intentional harassment followed by rending their garments to proclaim how they're a persecuted minority.

 

[Orionblamblam]

It would have taken you five seconds to check this and ascertain they violated a no-harassment zone in order to harass women seeking an abortion. They could legally do exactly the same thing from outside the no-harassment zone, but they chose to breach the law. That's not exercising freedom of speech, it's intentional harassment followed by rending their garments to proclaim how they're a persecuted minority.

She Was Arrested for Praying in Her Head

Citizens in the UK have been arrested, prosecuted, and convicted for silently praying outside abortion clinics. Even organizing pro-life meetings in your own home may be a criminal offense.

www.thefp.com

British man convicted of criminal charges for praying silently near abortion clinic

In Britain, it can be a crime to think the wrong thoughts in the wrong place. It sounds absurd—not to mention Orwellian—but a handful of people have been

reason.com

UK Abortion Buffer Zone 'Absurdity': Praying Inside One's Home Could Now Be a Risk

While many already knew about the "thought crime" case against British Army veteran Adam Smith-Connor, Vice President JD

cbn.com

 

[Orionblamblam]

It would have taken you five seconds to check this and ascertain they violated a no-harassment zone in order to harass women seeking an abortion. They could legally do exactly the same thing from outside the no-harassment zone, but they chose to breach the law. That's not exercising freedom of speech, it's intentional harassment followed by rending their garments to proclaim how they're a persecuted minority.

Now here's a report from the BBC, which can be expected to be slanted in favor of the politically directed opinion. It reports that the most he did was pray silently within a "buffer zone," at a substantial distance from the clinic. He harassed nobody. Certainly less so than blocking a street with people praying loudly or whipping themselves/each other or chanting "death to fill-in-the-blank."

Praying man breached Bournemouth abortion clinic safe zone

The physiotherapist said he had been praying for his unborn son who died by abortion 22 years ago.

www.bbc.com

 

[uk 75]

Unlike in the US abortion is not a political issue. The large majority of Brits are content with the arrangements we have.
There have always been and probably always will be religious zealots who get tangled up in local legal provisions.
Religion is one area where we definitely do not need lectures from America.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Unlike in the US abortion is not a political issue. The large majority of Brits are content with the arrangements we have.

Then why set up draconian anti-free-*thought* rules on the subject?

There have always been and probably always will be religious zealots who get tangled up in local legal provisions.
Religion is one area where we definitely do not need lectures from America.

Y'all will be getting lectures and more on religion in the years to come. Not the religion you've been used to...

 

[Arjen]

Then why set up draconian anti-free-*thought harassment* rules on the subject?

FTFY.