DrRansom said:Quellish - what you're saying is that low observable shaping becomes ineffective in ground clutter?
Gridlock said:DrRansom said:Quellish - what you're saying is that low observable shaping becomes ineffective in ground clutter?
Logical, if you consider what LO is designed to counter. Once you start bouncing radar off hills, moving trucks etc you're gonna need a *much* bigger computer.
The B-2 doesn't fly close air support (CAS) missions like the B-1 does so I suppose it would like like a large bat that just flew out of the Bat Cave. -SPJeb said:I'm just daydreaming what a B-2 flying a low-altitude profile like a B-1B would look like.
bring_it_on said:
bring_it_on said:This is as low as I have seen them in a video..
An award for the Long-Range Strike Bomber program could still be a few months away, according to a top Air Force acquisition official.
"My hope is within the next couple of months," Lt. Gen. Arnold Bunch, the service's military deputy for acquisition, said when pressed during a Sept. 29 House Armed Services seapower and projection forces subcommittee hearing to indicate when the long-awaited award may come.
The Air Force had expected to award an LRS-B contract in April and then pushed that date to August. More recently, service officials have been saying the award would come in September or October. Bunch's comments this week indicate the Air Force may continued to stretch the award date.
"We have details that we still have to work through to make sure we're doing it fair and to make sure we're going with the process," Bunch said. "You have to get the start right. If you get the start right, you set the program up for success right away. That's the part we're trying to focus on."
Northrop Grumman is competing against a Boeing-Lockheed Martin team for the contract to build between 80 and 100 aircraft to replace the Air Force's aging bomber fleet. Analysts estimate the program could cost as much as $90 billion.
In his written opening remarks at the hearing, committee Chairman Randy Forbes (R-VA) stressed his concern that the delay in awarding an LRS-B contract will lead to further program reductions.
"I am concerned about the continued delay in the LRS-B award that in my estimation is costing the USAF approximately $100 million a month and will undoubtedly result in reduced LRS-B FY-16 funding authorizations and appropriations," his opening remarks stated.
Committee staff members told reporters following the hearing that the $100-million-per-month estimate was derived from the Air Force's FY-16 budget request, which called for $1.2 billion for the program in the coming fiscal year.
The initial four-month award delay from spring to summer prompted the House Armed Services Committee to propose a $460 million reduction to LRS-B in fiscal year 2016, a move that staffers confirmed was upheld in the FY-16 defense authorization bill conference report released Tuesday.
That $460 million reduction, however, was formulated when the committee was anticipating an August award. Additionally, although the conference report does not propose additional cuts to the account for the continued award delay, some staff members speculated that appropriators may have an opportunity to make deeper cuts to the program in their spending legislation. -- Courtney Albon
bobbymike said:LRS-B Announcement Coming
—Brian Everstine 9/30/2015
The Air Force is still avoiding a strict deadline for the awarding of a contract for the Long-Range Strike Bomber, but officials told members of the House Armed Services Committee Tuesday they expect the announcement within a “couple months.” Lt. Gen. Arnold Bunch, the military deputy in the office of the assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisition, told lawmakers the contract could be announced within months, but the program is one that “needs to go slow in order to go fast.” The Air Force must work in a “fair and deliberate” way with contractors to make the right decision for a bomber that will be the cornerstone of the military’s nuclear triad for decades, he added. The contract was initially expected in the spring, but has been continually delayed. Rep. Randy Forbes (R-Va.), chairman of the HASC seapower and projection forces panel, said the delay has cost the Air Force hundreds of millions of dollars, and more of the cost will be moved into later years. “I am concerned about the continued delay in the LRS-B award that in my estimation is costing the USAF approximately $100 million a month and will undoubtedly result in reduced LRS-B FY16 authorizations and appropriations,” said Forbes in his opening remarks.
Aging Bombers Affect Fleet Readiness
—Brian Everstine 9/30/2015
The mission capable rate of the Air Force’s entire bomber fleet has been low because the service has such a small fleet, which is why the Long-Range Strike Bomber is so important to keep the service capable, Gen. Robin Rand, commander of Air Force Global Strike Command, told lawmakers on Tuesday. Rand, in testimony to the House Armed Services Committee, said the service has just 159 total bombers, with its newest aircraft a 25-year-old B-2, meaning large-scale maintenance is a constant need and one that negatively impacts the overall readiness of the fleet. “At any time there’s going to be a number of your aircraft in heavy maintenance depot status doing modernization,” Rand said. “The 50 percent available rate is a result of that small number.” For example, the Air Force at any time usually has just 11 B-2s available for operations. Of the aircraft that are on flightlines, the mission capable rate of the bomber fleet is comparable to other weapons systems in the Air Force, Rand said. “The long-range strike capability is something our nation has to have,” Rand said. “To do that we have to modernize our current fleet, we have to acquire a new LRS-B, and I think we are on the path to that.”
I am concerned about the continued delay in the LRS-B award that in my estimation is costing the USAF approximately $100 million a month and will undoubtedly result in reduced LRS-B FY16 authorizations and appropriations,”
bring_it_on said:Well he could have broken it down into seconds
bring_it_on said:How will the delay in a down-select influence the number of units procured?? It simply extends the program by a few months given the EMD funding that was allocated to the program would/could not be spent since that phase hasn't begun as was expected. The $100 Million a month is for FY16 i.e. Oct to Oct.
Ian33 said:This is agony. Absolute agony.
$100 million a month.... Speechless.
Ian33 said:bring_it_on said:How will the delay in a down-select influence the number of units procured?? It simply extends the program by a few months given the EMD funding that was allocated to the program would/could not be spent since that phase hasn't begun as was expected. The $100 Million a month is for FY16 i.e. Oct to Oct.
B-1.
B-2.
F-22.
F-35.
Delayed programme equals less airframes purchased as prices rise and political will falters. Then all the old stock has to be upgraded and flown for sixty years in a farcical attempt to claw back even a modicum of credibility.
Ian33 said:Still makes me sit back and scratch my head wondering where and why the NGB effort got so much cash then was squashed dead.
I'm seriously hoping the F22 folks are wrong and this effort isn't going to get canned.
quellish said:Ian33 said:This is agony. Absolute agony.
$100 million a month.... Speechless.
Hill Math.
$1.2 b requested for the year, divided by 12 months = "You're spending $100m a month!"
Develop radio frequency/electro-optical/infrared sensor technology for rapid and accurate target detection and identification capability.
Develop data fusion algorithms and crew interface techniques for multi-platform sensor cueing/management and net-centric operations.
Develop blended wing aero-control and structural load databases to characterize aero-propulsive efficiency.
Determine large-scale composite airframe manufacturing approaches.
Demonstrate acoustic suppression and enhanced weapon separation technology.
Develop lightweight thermal structures components for air platform concepts.
Conduct small-scale wind tunnel experiments of tailless aero-configurations.
Validate performance of engine inlet and nozzle flow path components for variable cycle propulsion.
Demonstrate high temperature engine core components.
sferrin said:marauder2048 said:LowObservable said:In that case someone would have bleeped up the requirements. Industry initiative is a wonderful thing but if you ain't got the spec locked up better than that at this stage, it's time to start over.
But LRS-B doesn't exist in a vacuum; the lesser known LRSW effort that accompanied the earlier LRSA effort (where Boeing's concept was in fact a Mach 2.0 cruiser with a 6000 nmi range) is still kicking; the wide range of propulsion options the Air Force is entertaining
for LRSO is interesting in that regard.
Do you have any detail on this?
marauder2048 said:Sorry for the delay in replying; it would have saved some debate. Boeing's LRSA effort cruised at 60,000+ ft. I thought the LRSA effort was well known 'round
these parts? Quite a few of the sub-systems were matured in the public domain.
The Defense Department's ongoing long-range strike study will re-examine the "whole concept of power projection," according to a Pentagon official.
The study is in the early stages, but the goal is to produce insights by early fall, in time to influence the Office of the Secretary of Defense's review of the services' fiscal year 2012 program objective memorandum (POM-12) submissions, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Force Development David Ochmanek told Inside the Pentagon.
"We're looking at the portfolio of long-range strike capabilities," Ochmanek said, including "supporting elements of that, whether it's penetrating [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance]; survivable command and control communications; weapons and munitions; base infrastructure -- really the whole concept of power projection is being relooked at."
There are no early takeaways from the study yet, Ochmanek said in an April 21 interview.
"No, we're still at the point of refining the specific scenarios to be looked at, the target sets, the modalities of the analysis," he said. The analysis is mulling the appropriate mix of long-range strike capabilities, including heavy bombers and non-nuclear Prompt Global Strike. The Quadrennial Defense Review called for the study to determine the best mix of joint persistent surveillance, electronic warfare, and precision-attack capabilities -- including both penetrating platforms and stand-off weapons -- for U.S. power projection over the next 20 to 30 years.
"We have been examining the potential as well for some sort of nontraditional long-range strike assets," Ochmanek said. "You've heard about the Prompt Global Strike set of concepts. Where do they fit into an overall concept of operations? So that's been going on sort of in parallel with an analysis of more traditional things like bombers and cruise missiles."
To meet the potential threats to the American military's ability to project power, deter aggression, and come to the aid of allies and partners, the QDR directs more focus and investment in a new air-sea battle concept, long-range strike, space and cyberspace, among other conventional and strategic modernization programs.
The QDR notes the Air Force is eying ways to field survivable, long-range surveillance and strike aircraft as part of a plan to modernize the bomber force and working with the Navy on options for a new joint cruise missile.
The Navy, meanwhile, is mulling ways to expand the capacity of future Virginia-class attack submarines for long-range strike while also planning experiments with prototypes of a Naval Unmanned Combat Aerial System, a drone that might one day greatly boost the range of carrier-based ISR and strike operations. In a speech Monday at the Navy League's annual conference, Defense Secretary Robert Gates touted such efforts.
Gates called for extending the range at which U.S. naval forces can fight, refuel and strike with more resources devoted to long-range unmanned aircraft and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities; developing new sea-based missile defenses; giving the submarine force "expanded roles," including conducting more missions deep inside an enemy's battle network; increasing sub strike capability and using smaller and unmanned underwater platforms.
"Looking forward, we are focused on the challenge of anti-access adversaries and how we do power projection in a world where our adversaries have more capabilities to threaten our forces and bases in theaters of operation than has been the case in the past," Ochmanek said.
The QDR discusses that, makes some "down payments on capabilities" and moves in that direction, "but there is more to be done," Ochmanek added.
"We know other nations are working on asymmetric ways to thwart the reach and striking power of the U.S. battle fleet," Gates said Monday. "At the low end, Hezbollah, a nonstate actor, used anti-ship missiles against the Israeli navy in 2006. And Iran is combining ballistic and cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles, mines and swarming speedboats in order to challenge our naval power in that region."
At the higher end of the access-denial spectrum, he said, U.S. forces now face long-range, accurate anti-ship cruise and ballistic missiles with the capability to strike from over the horizon.
"This is a particular concern with aircraft carriers and other large, multibillion-dollar blue-water surface combatants, where, for example, a Ford-class carrier plus its full complement of the latest aircraft would represent potentially a $15 [billion] to $20 billion set of hardware at risk," Gates said.
Gates said the agreement by the Navy and the Air Force to collaborate on an air-sea battle concept is "an encouraging development, which has the potential to do for America's military deterrent power at the beginning of the 21st century what air-land battle did near the end of the 20th." Work on the concept is progressing, Ochmanek said.
"That's going on as well between the Air Force and the Navy and we're very hopeful that's going to come up with some new ways to skin this cat," he told ITP. "There's still in the study and analysis phase but we're kind of following that pretty closely."
The Air Force's top officer this week said the U.S. military's next-generation bomber will not be a "lone wolf" aircraft that operates without escort, noting that the requirements now being considered by the Defense Department for a new, long-range strike capability are less ambitious than previous Pentagon plans for a future bomber.
"I think that's clear," Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz said in reply to a question asking whether capabilities currently being envisioned for the new bomber are more "modest" than prior plans "At least at the start, this airplane will not be a lone wolf. It wouldn't have everything on it that you would need to operate independently of everything else in the portfolio."
In early March, Defense Department leaders began in earnest an effort to hammer out a plan to modernize its bomber force. Defense Secretary Robert Gates called for the study in December as a follow-up to an assessment of potential long-range strike capabilities conducted last year in support of the Quadrennial Defense Review.
The goal is to determine what combination of joint persistent surveillance, electronic warfare and precision-attack capabilities -- launched from either penetrating or stand-off aircraft -- will best suit U.S. operations for the next three decades.
The working group includes leaders from the Pentagon's policy shop, the office of cost assessment and program evaluation and the Joint Staff as well as other key stakeholders in a future bomber program -- among them representatives from the Air Force, the Navy, U.S. Strategic Command and U.S. Pacific Command. In addition, the working group is being supported by the RAND Corp., the Institute for Defense Analyses and Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory.
"People have different views about how big it should be, how far it should be able to go, what kind of weapon payload it might carry," Schwartz said March 30. "These are serious questions that generalists, like me, and analysts, like others, have to wrestle with. That's what lies in front of us."
Schwartz would only outline in broad terms the Air Force's position in the closed-door discussions.
"Clearly we believe -- the Air Force believes -- there is a need in the defense portfolio for something between an F-35 and a conventional ICBM," the Air Force four-star said. "The country needs something in that space. Now what we have to do is we need to persuade the leadership -- both uniformed and civilian in the building -- that what we have in mind is appropriate, affordable and that it has very little if any wishful thinking associated with it."
The Pentagon's five-year investment blueprint allocates $1.7 billion to fund work on capabilities expected to be incorporated in the future platform, whatever shape it takes, Schwartz said.
"The idea here is to have industry work on things that clearly have value to a long-range strike platform without regard for who the manufacturer is or the precise design," Schwartz said in remarks to an audience of defense contractors and uniformed officials. "And as you are aware, the ultimate decision on proceeding forward with a specific program of record will be decided this cycle. Needless to say, we will argue, we will debate, we will be strongly involved in the discussion on this."
The United States will likely develop a new bomber airplane over the next decade, but the Air Force's top military leader said yesterday that he does not expect the next-generation platform to be capable of conducting the bomber mission entirely on its own.
"It might not have all the capabilities that you would embed in a single platform to do that whole mission all by itself," Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz told reporters on the sideline of the IFPA-Fletcher national security conference in Washington, D.C.
"Part of this will involve a commitment to a family of systems that are more interdependent and mutually supportive than we have looked at previously," he added.
Schwartz said he is confident that the Air Force has answered questions raised by Defense Secretary Robert Gates about the proposed program. Gates suspended the effort a year ago, asking the Air Force to better flesh out its ideas before proceeding with development.
Schwartz said yesterday that he expects "certain, very finite parameters on the program" from Gates "when, and if, it is ultimately endorsed by his team."
A formal analysis of alternatives process will likely be opened "shortly" after fiscal year 2011, Schwartz added.
Earlier in the day, Deputy Defense Secretary William Lynn said the Pentagon plans to "mature a portfolio of capabilities--manned and unmanned, penetrating and standoff, ballistic and cruise missile" for the new long-range strike capability.
Lynn said that both military and civilian officials in the Pentagon think that a single new bomber platform would not meet the military's needs.
He also noted that the United States will likely face greater enemy air defenses in the future, noting that the military's ability to penetrate enemy territory is "more fraught with challenges that it has been in memory."