Interesting. How are the lots price assigned for F-35? Does USAF set a maximum price limit per lot and LM has to atleast match that, or is it completely up to LM and USAF has to "take their word for it" that they are giving a fair price?
 
Nothing special :)
 

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In the August 2015 issue of Combat Aircraft Monthly, in the column "The Air Force We Could Have Had" (p.14), there are a few quotes on the NGB by former Air Force
Secretary Michael W. Wynne:
‘What I advocated was a B-1-like aircraft
with two ADVENT/VAATE engines
[Adaptive Versatile Engine Technology/
Versatile Affordable Advanced Turbine
Engines], an F-35-like electronics suite, and a
large modern radar’, former Air Force
Secretary Michael W. Wynne told me. ‘I
targeted IOC in 2016, which satisfied the
then-popular ‘fly-before-buy’ requirement. I
saw two bidders with first flight in early 2014
and acquisition on fast-track to keep costs in
bounds. We had secured minimum
requirements and developed our acquisition
strategy when SecDef [Gates] intervened to
strip the funding.’
Wynne added: ‘Gates looked at Next-Gen
[Bomber], and did not see something that met
his immediate priority in Iraq. An argument
developed about Mach number and some Air
Force prior leaders complained we were
moving too fast.
I didn’t think so.’
So was NGB a supersonic design or perhaps a sonic cruiser type design?
 
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/08/tell-congress-how-much-lrsb-will-cost-rep-speier-to-secaf-james/
 
Bomber Replacements, Bomber Numbers

—John A. Tirpak

8/25/2015

The Air Force could buy Long-Range Strike Bombers for “25 years or so” and the aircraft will eventually replace the B-1 and B-52, Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh said Monday. Commenting on a new Bomber Roadmap, which he said remains unfinished, Welsh said the Air Force would “start to field” the LRS-B “in the mid-‘20s, and it would probably continue for 25 years or so; that’s a rough guess depending on production rates, etc. in the program.” Other senior USAF officials have suggested the LRS-B would be bought over about 10 years, starting in about 2023, noting service plans call for both the B-1 and the B-52 to serve into the 2040s, and the B-2 to almost 2060. Either way, Welsh said, “the B-52 and B-1 will time out, eventually,” joking that the “B-52’s going to try to make 100 years.” Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James said USAF has stepped up to “check our numbers” on the LRS-B and confirmed that revised acquisition and operating figures provided to Congress recently are correct. She admitted that previous ones supplied were inaccurate because they were inadequately “coordinated,” though the actual cost estimate hasn’t changed.
 
bobbymike said:
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/08/tell-congress-how-much-lrsb-will-cost-rep-speier-to-secaf-james/

"For those readers who may not know, rumors have been swirling for weeks that Northrop Grumman has won the LRSB contract — but no matter how many usually reliable sources we have heard this from, those reports remain rumors"
 
I notice it also mentioned that the contact award could have now gone back to October.
 
One reporter asked the SECAF yesterday whether the contract award (or announcement) had slipped to October, and her reply was the same as that of LaPlante's in that it will be announced when everything has been completed.
 
The official position has been September for a while ;) We also don't know for a fact whether it is ANNOUNCEMENT in September or Contract AWARD in September. I think its the former but if there are indeed rumors out there that one team has won (such as posted here) then it may as well be an announcement of an award..and they are just waiting for the protests and other activity to settle down.
 
Bomber battle: LRS-B winner set to break cover


The US Air Force's (USAF's) nuclear-capable Long-Range Strike Bomber (LRS-B) programme is expected to emerge from the Department of Defense's (DoD's) classified budget when a contract is awarded to either Northrop Grumman or a Lockheed Martin/Boeing team to develop and build approximately 100 of the stealthy, optionally manned aircraft. Officials have said they expect to announce a winner in the September 2015 timeframe. The Pentagon released a request for proposals for the LRS-B directly to industry in July 2014, so most details about the aircraft are not yet public.
Despite the multibillion-dollar price tag for the programme in an austere budget environment, the LRS-B is near the top of the Pentagon's wish list. It is one of the USAF's top three acquisition priorities - the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and the Boeing KC-46A aerial refuelling tanker being the other two. It is also one of the three major US nuclear programmes in urgent need of recapitalisation; the US Navy is also seeking to replace its fleet of Ohio-class ballistic missile/guided missile submarines and to extend the life of its Trident II D-5 missiles, while the USAF is studying plans to update its Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).

Nuclear priorities


Senior Pentagon officials have been increasingly vocal about making the case for the LRS-B from the nuclear angle. For example, Major General Garrett Harencak, the USAF's assistant chief of staff for strategic deterrence and nuclear integration, argued in 2014 that, unlike nuclear-armed rivals Russia and China, the United States has "taken a modernisation holiday" over the last 20-25 years.
Completing LRS-B development is crucial to maintaining the US nuclear deterrent due to the advanced age of the existing bomber fleets and of the other two legs of the triad, the military official responsible for US strategic deterrence said not long after Maj Gen Harancek made his case. US Strategic Command Chief Admiral Cecil Haney has noted that, as the backbone of the US bomber fleet, the USAF's Boeing B-52s - the last of which came off the assembly line in 1962 - will be used until at least the 2040s. The only other nuclear-capable US bomber, the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit, was built in such small numbers that the fleet is only 20-strong after an accident loss in 2008.

However, the LRS-B alone will not be sufficient to upgrade the ageing bomber fleet. A new Long-Range Standoff (LRSO) cruise missile is also being developed to replace the nuclear-capable AGM-86 air-launched cruise missile (ALCM), designed in the 1970s and in service since 1980. The ALCM is expected to be retired in the mid-2020s and the LRSO could begin production around 2027, according to budget documents. Approximately USD4.8 billion has already been spent, but some analysts project the cost of development and production of the weapon to ultimately reach USD10-20 billion. Officials have thus far declined to provide any details on the recently accelerated LRSO programme.

Cost critique


Keeping the LRS-B programme classified since its inception has invited criticism on that count alone, but other analysts have said the cost of the programme is prohibitive. Despite the fact that a ceiling of USD550 million per copy for a fleet of 80-100 aircraft has been set, critics point to the most recent US bomber acquisition - the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit, which was built in the 1980s at a cost of more than USD700 million per aircraft - to indicate that the USD550 million target is likely unrealistic.
If the Pentagon's Future Years Defense Plan (FYDP) for the LRS-B development is executed beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2017, unclassified funding for the aircraft will reach nearly USD1.5 billion by the end of the seven-year development. Research, development, test, and evaluation (RDT&E) funding for LRS-B was USD319 million in FY 2014, USD914 million in FY 2015, with USD1.2 billion planned for FY 2016. Funding will continue to escalate over the FYDP, with a planned request of USD2.2 billion in FY 2017, USD2.8 billion in FY 2018, USD3.6 billion in FY 2019 and USD3.7 billion in FY 2020. If all 100 aircraft are eventually built, unclassified development costs per aircraft will be at least USD15 million. Those figures do not reflect money hidden in the classified budget that could dramatically increase the cost of the programme long before production even begins. Analysts have said the total RDT&E cost for the programme is likely to approach USD35 billion.
However, USAF acquisition officials have said they were careful to study the state of the art of current technologies used for the LRS-B before opening the competition in order to reduce risk. That risk reduction effort is expected to keep costs in check. Officials continue to express confidence that the competing industry teams are working with mature technology. Maj Gen Harencak said in 2014 that the USAF is "moving mountains" to keep the programme affordable.
Furthermore, the DoD intends to hold future competitions for LRS-B technology enhancements, according to the department's chief weapon buyer. Frank Kendall, the undersecretary of defence for acquisition, technology, and logistics, said in 2015 that such 'technology refresh' competitions are to keep the platform relevant longer, while also keeping the cost of upgrades down. A modular design is expected to facilitate such upgrades.
Still, some observers are also concerned about the nature of the contracting vehicle planned for the LRS-B. William LaPlante, assistant secretary of the air force for acquisition, told Congress early this year that the service will "likely" award a cost-plus rather than a fixed-price contract for the bomber programme. LaPlante said that because so much development work is needed on such a complex programme, awarding a fixed-price contract would be too risky. "We're doing a little more cutting-edge, it's not based on a commercial item, so most likely it's going to be in the cost-plus regime," he said.

Fleet reorganisation and upgrades


The USAF has begun restructuring its Global Strike Command (AFGSC) to include the LRS-B. The reorganisation, expected to be effective in October, is to include the non-nuclear Rockwell B-1B Lancer fleet and both existing nuclear-capable platforms - the B-52H Stratofortress and B-2 Spirit - as well as the Minuteman III ICBMs. Specifically, the LRS-B will join 63 B-1Bs, 76 B-52s, 20 B-2s, and 30,000 airmen at the command.
Each of those existing fleets has been receiving upgrades that have kept them relevant for decades and will do so for decades more. The B-1 carries the largest payload of both guided and unguided weapons in the USAF's inventory. Initially developed in the 1970s as a replacement for the B-52, the programme was briefly cancelled in 1977 before going into production and being fielded in 1981.
Rick Greenwell, Boeing's director for B-1 efforts, told IHS Jane's on 11 August that the company is "making sure it stays viable" until at least 2040. Dan Ruder, who oversees Boeing's B-1 advanced programmes, noted that the recent emphasis for platform upgrades has been improving its close air support (CAS) capabilities.
Boeing has expanded the B-1's weapons carriage from 15 to 48 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) in addition to the internal payload of 96 Small Diameter Bombs (SDBs) it can carry, according to Ruder. The B-1 is also expected to be the launch platform for the US Navy's Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM): a stealthy anti-ship cruise missile being developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) to replace the navy's current anti-ship missile, the 1970s-era Harpoon.

n addition to its expanded munitions complement, the B-1 is receiving an integrated battle station (IBS) that includes fully integrated datalinks, a digital display, and a modern diagnostics system. "IBS improves the B-1's performance as a global strike platform," said Ruder. "We're installing all-digital cockpit displays and connecting the bombers to a global communications network: capabilities that allow for greater agility and situational awareness."
Ruder said the aircraft is also getting a new inertial navigation system, expected to be complete across the fleet during 2015, that will help with targeting accuracy. During the US-led war in Iraq, the B-1 also received the Lockheed Martin Sniper advanced targeting pod in order to improve precision targeting, so the combination of the two technologies will improve the aircraft's CAS capabilities markedly.

Meanwhile, the B-52, the oldest of the existing US bombers, has been receiving upgrades for decades. B-52 programme director Scot Oathout told IHS Jane's on 13 August that the upgrades will keep the fleet in service "well past 2040". Weapon upgrades centre around the 1760 Internal Weapons Bay Upgrade (IWBU) enhancement: a modified Conventional Rotary Launcher (CRL) that is installed in the aircraft's internal weapons bay. The first increment of the upgrade will allow for JDAM integration (eight carried on the CRL and another 12 externally), with subsequent increments allowing for Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile and Miniature Air Launched Decoy integration. All 76 of the USAF's B-52Hs are expected to receive the upgrade by October 2017.
Previously, the B-52 had been able to carry precision-guided munitions only on its underwing pylons. However, the 1760 upgrade serves one other key purpose, according to Oathout: LRSO integration. Some initial planning for LRSO integration has begun and the B-52 will likely be one of the test platforms, he said.

In addition to the 1760 IWBU upgrade, B-52s have been receiving the Combat Network Communications Technology (CONECT) digital data suite: an update to the obsolete Northrop Grumman AN/APQ-166 radar that allowed for, among other things, integration of the AN/AAQ-33 Lockheed Martin Sniper pod to complement the AN/AAQ-28 Northrop Grumman Litening advanced targeting pod it already carried. CONECT also allowed for introduction of the extremely high-frequency (EHF) satellite communications upgrade.
Even the newest of the three existing bombers, the stealthy B-2, is receiving upgrades to keep it relevant until the new stealth bomber is introduced. In 2014 Northrop Grumman completed a USAF review of a new software package for the fleet. The preliminary design review of the weapons management system software, known as the USAF's Flexible Strike programme, was conducted early in the year at Northrop Grumman's B-2 facility in Oklahoma City. 'Flexible Strike Phase 1' was created to streamline weapons management software on the B-2. The aircraft previously had several standalone software programmes that managed specific missions. Streamlining the software this way is expected to reduce maintenance costs and increase reliability, according to Northrop Grumman.

The Flexible Strike programme is the first B-2 modernisation effort to take advantage of a new communications infrastructure that includes faster processors, a fibre-optic network, and increased onboard data storage. Northrop Grumman created the infrastructure for the first increment of the B-2 EHF satellite communications programme.
In late 2012 the company completed field installations of an active electronically scanned array (AESA) upgrade to the B-2's Raytheon AN/APQ-181 radar. Other enhancements include improvements to the cockpit weapon interfaces to accommodate new munitions, such as the SDB II and the Massive Ordnance Penetrator; the fitting of enhanced communications; and the installation of a Universal Armament Interface.
Northrop Grumman is also providing software and hardware upgrades to the aircraft's Lockheed Martin AN/APR-50 defensive management system; Lockheed Martin's Mission Systems and Training division is developing a new avionics graphics processor; while L-3 Communications Randtron Antenna Systems and Ball Aerospace are working on new antennas for that upgrade.
 

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" but other analysts have said the cost of the programme is prohibitive."

Thing is you need it. It's not like we can just not have long range strike aircraft. It's like medical insurance. It might be expensive but not as expensive as not having it. So grab your nose and swallow the bitter pill. Unless you just want to throw bomb racks on a 767 a long range bomber is never going to be cheap.
 
I wonder if NG could have won this just by under-bidding the other guy, I know they've said technical specifications matching requirements are king. But are you telling me that if one bidder is a lot cheaper than the other, then that isn't going to factor into things at some point?
 
Of course bidding amount would be important but this is where both would have had to be aggressive for the stakes are very high (there won't be another program this size for quite a while not only in $ amount but also in the technology that can be spun into other products). The way I see it is that all 3 vendors will get a sizable share of the overall Bomber. They will open up the mission systems and 'packages' so you can have all three vendors get at least some of the work. I would be surprised (pleasantly so) if Northrop Grumman takes it...Boeing and Lockheed can buy a lot of bench strength with the amount of cash they bring especially if there are pitfalls which are bound to come up in a program this complex. But I also expect Northrop Grumman to bring Boeing into the manufacturing if they win..
 
Flyaway said:
I wonder if NG could have won this just by under-bidding the other guy, I know they've said technical specifications matching requirements are king. But are you telling me that if one bidder is a lot cheaper than the other, then that isn't going to factor into things at some point?

Not if it doesn't meet the requirement. That's how you guarantee a protest and hose a competition.
 
Rather than developing a KPP that pretty much forces all bidders to design for the "threshold" as opposed to the "objective" due to the rush to get to the cheapest bid they have built financial incentives into the RFP where the service will be willing to pay an incentive for added capability over and above the threshold requirement if it is reasonable. That adds a totally new dimension to how you design a vehicle..If you overestimate this you may end up with a significantly more expensive system that is only marginally better in performance in some areas while more so in others. From what I can figure out from whats been shared by the leadership on this matter it seems that they could end up selecting a higher bid amount if it exceeds the threshold and if the acquisition folks determine that the added benefit is well worth the added cost.
 
"Lawmaker Demands Answers on LRS-B Cost Discrepancy"
By Lara Seligman 4:37 p.m. EDT August 25, 2015

Source:
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2015/08/24/congressman-demands-answers-lrs-b-cost-discrepancy/32266129/

WASHINGTON — Rep. Jackie Speier is demanding answers after the US Air Force reportedly botched estimates for the 10-year cost of its next-generation bomber.

The California Democrat sent a letter to Air Force Secretary Deborah James on Monday morning decrying "massive discrepancies" between this year and last in 10-year cost estimates for the Long Range Strike Bomber (LRS-B), and demanding an explanation by Sept. 30.

Last year, the Air Force estimated costs for the LRS-B from fiscal years 2015 to 2024 at $33.1 billion. This year, the service pegged costs for FY '16 to FY '25, a similar 10-year period, at $58.2 billion. This is a 76 percent increase, Speier points out in the letter — a change the ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee's subcommittee on oversight and investigations calls "alarming."

"This sudden 76 percent increase in estimated cost is alarming, because it raises questions about the management of a crucial program that lacks transparency, on which we cannot afford serious cost overruns, development errors, and reduced production numbers that would deprive the United States of one of its core military capabilities," Speier wrote.

The Air Force has now said the true cost estimate for both 10-year periods should be $41.7 billion, service spokesman Ed Gulick said Monday.

Although the Air Force maintains program costs remain stable, the discrepancy suggests the Pentagon's projected cost of the aircraft — $500 million per plane — may be unreliable, Speier wrote.

"The Defense Department has promised that the LRS-B would be produced at a fixed price of $500 million per plane, but these reports suggest we should be concerned about the reliability of that promise," Speier wrote.

Speier demands the Air Force explain the root cause of the discrepancy and provide additional information about how the cost estimate is calculated by Sept. 30. Speier also dings the Air Force for a lack of transparency, pointedly asking what steps the service is taking to ensure Congress is aware when such large discrepancies are identified in future.

Comparing the LRS-B to the B-2 program, which faced huge cost overruns after being developed entirely behind closed doors, Speier also asks the Air Force to provide answers on how many details about the new program will be declassified.

The Air Force is working to ensure the recent mistakes are corrected, and that reports in future years are accurate, Gulick said.

This is not the first time Speier has called for stricter oversight of the Air Force's secretive bomber program. During the House Armed Services Committee's markup of the 2016 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), Speier supported a mark directing the comptroller general to review the service's acquisition strategy for the LRS-B.

The language, which the House adopted in its final version of the bill, orders a comparison of the bomber program's technological maturation versus other service acquisition programs at this point in their development. It would also include an examination of the overall acquisition strategy, technology design, development and testing status, cost and schedule implications, and expected technological performance.

As part of the study, the language directs the Air Force to "ensure timely access to the necessary program information including, but not limited to, cost and budget information, detailed schedules, contractor data, program management reports, decision briefings, risk and technology readiness assessments, and technical performance measures."

This is notable, given the Air Force's reticence to discuss any details of the program.

The House and Senate are still in conference discussions over the NDAA, with a final bill expected later this summer.
 
"The Defense Department has promised that the LRS-B would be produced at a fixed price of $500 million per plane, but these reports suggest we should be concerned about the reliability of that promise," Speier wrote.

Its $550 Million in FY10 dollars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwGST17nsdw
 
sferrin said:
Thing is you need it. It's not like we can just not have long range strike aircraft.


Sure you can. Aircraft carriers and long range missiles.
 
bring_it_on said:
"The Defense Department has promised that the LRS-B would be produced at a fixed price of $500 million per plane, but these reports suggest we should be concerned about the reliability of that promise," Speier wrote.

Its $550 Million in FY10 dollars.

Assuming the purchase of 100 aircraft?
 
Flyaway said:
I wonder if NG could have won this just by under-bidding the other guy, I know they've said technical specifications matching requirements are king. But are you telling me that if one bidder is a lot cheaper than the other, then that isn't going to factor into things at some point?

During the bidding process for the ATA/A-12, the McDonnell Douglas/General Dynamics bid was so low that the Northrop team said there was no way they could build it for that price and didn't even bother to submit a bid. There are still a lot of people out there pissed about the rising B2 costs that hurt the program, and Northrop isn't going to play shenanigans with that bidding process....
 
Seems to be the accepted public wisdom in a lot of quarters that both solutions will be subsonic flying wings. But why should they be, just because when the B-2 was the state of the art in stealth design back in the eighties this was the only solution, I would think advancements in the art would allow for other designs these days?
 
quellish said:
sferrin said:
Thing is you need it. It's not like we can just not have long range strike aircraft.


Sure you can. Aircraft carriers and long range missiles.

Which aircraft carrier can carry an MOP? Or large quantities of munitions on a single mission? Or has the reaction time of a strategic bomber? The bomber can be over the target in hours, the carrier might take weeks to get there depending. I don't disagree, there's a small degree of overlap, potentially, but carrier in no way, shape, or form can do all the jobs of a bomber as effectively as a bomber.
 
Flyaway said:
Seems to be the accepted public wisdom in a lot of quarters that both solutions will be subsonic flying wings. But why should they be, just because when the B-2 was the state of the art in stealth design back in the eighties this was the only solution, I would think advancements in the art would allow for other designs these days?

There has been quite a lot of money spent in creating sustainable stealth. Thats one area where the LRS-B irrespective of its shape, form, speed etc is likely going to be a significant leap compared to the early B-2, or even the current B-2. Another area of research has been maintaining a low signature throughout the airframe life and through reduced support. Those two things when combined with affordability that is likelly to be a result of more than 25 years of stealth R&D and production are significaint by themselves even if we don't consider that there should have been considerable advances made in signature reduction but more importantly signature management and overall survivailbity (through avionics and countermeasures for example) since the B-2 was designed.
 
Flyaway said:
Seems to be the accepted public wisdom in a lot of quarters that both solutions will be subsonic flying wings. But why should they be, just because when the B-2 was the state of the art in stealth design back in the eighties this was the only solution, I would think advancements in the art would allow for other designs these days?

Electromagnetic scattering hasn't changed since the 80s, as far as I know.
 
sferrin said:
quellish said:
sferrin said:
Thing is you need it. It's not like we can just not have long range strike aircraft.


Sure you can. Aircraft carriers and long range missiles.

Which aircraft carrier can carry an MOP? Or large quantities of munitions on a single mission? Or has the reaction time of a strategic bomber? The bomber can be over the target in hours, the carrier might take weeks to get there depending. I don't disagree, there's a small degree of overlap, potentially, but carrier in no way, shape, or form can do all the jobs of a bomber as effectively as a bomber.
Also a bomber launching from CONUS with aerial refueling can approach a target from almost any direction greatly exacerbating problems for defensive systems in targeted country. Carrier strike aircraft would be very limited in the area size of flight path they could attack from say a deep inland target in Iran for example.
 
quellish said:
sferrin said:
Thing is you need it. It's not like we can just not have long range strike aircraft.


Sure you can. Aircraft carriers and long range missiles.

Sure if you have foresight enough (and time enough) to preposition them. At 25-30kts, carriers (10 in service but not all necessarily at sea) are slugs. Carriers are also not survivable in a real shooting war with at least a couple of nations. Bombers can be located virtually anyplace with a runway long enough, and when needed can fly from conus to damn near anyplace.
 
Opinion: Sizing Up The U.S. Air Force’s Next Bomber


http://aviationweek.com/defense/opinion-sizing-us-air-force-s-next-bomber
 
George Allegrezza said:
bring_it_on said:


This has now emerged from behind the paywall. Interesting argument about LRS-B range by Bill S.

It's a totally unoriginal argument. If you look upthread, we discussed at length the implications of New Start on the bomber reqs way back when. Waiting for AvWeek to issue a correction with this most worthy forum added to the byline ...

In any event, I'm hoping (probably in vain) that they'll announce at the Air Force Association's upcoming Air and Space Conference.
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2015/09/02/b-3-the-inside-story-of-americas-next-bomber/
 
http://www.defensenews.com/story/breaking-news/2015/09/02/new-air-force-bomber-testing-stealth-wind-test/71572050/

WASHINGTON — The two designs competing to be the US Air Force's next generation bomber have undergone extensive testing by the service and are far more mature than previously known, to a level nearly unheard of in the Pentagon before a contract award, Defense News has learned.

The designs also feature significantly improved stealth capabilities when compared to the B-2 and still feature plans for future certification of nuclear weaponry and the ability to be optionally manned.
 

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