US Next Generation Bomber Studies

[dark sidius]

With new threat like Pak-Fa and J-20 there is a real need for a new dominance aircraft in USAF, and a new Bomber. I think this time the F/X or FA/XX and LRS-B will have very disruptive technology. Surely new domaine like direct energy weapon.

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

With new threat like Pak-Fa and J-20 there is a real need for a new dominance aircraft in USAF,

is the F-22 already obsolete? That was fast.

 

[kcran567]

With new threat like Pak-Fa and J-20 there is a real need for a new dominance aircraft in USAF,

is the F-22 already obsolete? That was fast.

Maybe not obsolete yet, but like the f-15 vs sukhoi threat we are approaching parity? And will the F-22 (certainly the f-35 will) be ouitperformed in some ways by the PAKFA and J-20?

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

Maybe not obsolete yet, but like the f-15 vs sukhoi threat we are approaching parity?

Parity is does not mean obsolescent, newer does not inherently mean better.

 

[Rhinocrates]

"Parity" be damned. I've thought that all warfare should be asymmetric - you play not for honour, but to win, and that means never playing by your opponent's rules. The trick is to figure out what their rules are...

 

[Stargazer]

"Parity" be damned. I've thought that all warfare should be asymmetric - you play not for honour, but to win, and that means never playing by your opponent's rules. The trick is to figure out what their rules are...

Except war is anything BUT play. You might have spent a bit too much time on your gaming console, buddy. There's real people getting killed in the process, and chances are you wouldn't want it to be your family and friends.

 

[TaiidanTomcat]

"Parity" be damned.

Thats easy to say until the bill comes due. Again we aren't sure about the OPFOR fighters either. They may not even achieve parity, its a bunch of prototypes right now.

This isn't the cold war, just because someone invents something (that by the way is meant to catch up to the F-22) doesn't suddenly mean that the west is doomed because there are some prototypes flying on the other side of the world. We have very general ideas of what the PAK FA and J-20 are capable of. They are still in testing. Even if we decided to build a 6th gen fighter ASAP, we may want to wait a little bit and see exactly what they are capable of before we start investing the billions.

The PAK FA needs new engines, I can't emphasize that enough. It won't be at its full potential until those are installed. predictions have those at 10 years away. What f the PAKFA is more manuevarble than an F-22, but much easier to detect? What if its faster, but its avionics are lacking? What can the PAKFA/J-20 do, and what can't they do?

 

[bobbymike]

"Parity" be damned.

Thats easy to say until the bill comes due. Again we aren't sure about the OPFOR fighters either. They may not even achieve parity, its a bunch of prototypes right now.

This isn't the cold war, just because someone invents something (that by the way is meant to catch up to the F-22) doesn't suddenly mean that the west is doomed because there are some prototypes flying on the other side of the world. We have very general ideas of what the PAK FA and J-20 are capable of. They are still in testing. Even if we decided to build a 6th gen fighter ASAP, we may want to wait a little bit and see exactly what they are capable of before we start investing the billions.

The PAK FA needs new engines, I can't emphasize that enough. It won't be at its full potential until those are installed. predictions have those at 10 years away. What f the PAKFA is more manuevarble than an F-22, but much easier to detect? What if its faster, but its avionics are lacking? What can the PAKFA/J-20 do, and what can't they do?

Agree whole heartedly - however with weapon development lead times as long as they are a continual and robust R&D into 'the next generation' is key to sustaining lethal overmatch for the warfighter.

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

Regarding the cost of replacing all B-52s with the NGB, if the USAF fights hard to keep the procurement of the NGB at 178, it's arguable whether or not the cost of replacing all B-52s with the NGB will be staggering because the cost of replacing all B-52s with 132 B-2s in the early 1990s was too high (which was one of the reasons why the B-2 procurement was reduced to 21). The USAF factsheet lists 58 B-52Hs in active service plus 18 on reserve, so I'd be curious to see whether the cost of replacing three B-52s for one NGB will be prohibitively high (unless the cost of upgrading some B-52s is no longer sustainable).

 

[bobbymike]

Regarding the cost of replacing all B-52s with the NGB, if the USAF fights hard to keep the procurement of the NGB at 178, it's arguable whether or not the cost of replacing all B-52s with the NGB will be staggering because the cost of replacing all B-52s with 132 B-2s in the early 1990s was too high (which was one of the reasons why the B-2 procurement was reduced to 21). The USAF factsheet lists 58 B-52Hs in active service plus 18 on reserve, so I'd be curious to see whether the cost of replacing three B-52s for one NGB will be prohibitively high (unless the cost of upgrading some B-52s is no longer sustainable).

Yes cost was a factor but the end of the Cold War euphoria had 'Cold War' weapons cancelled left and right including anything that had to do with 'nuclear weapons'.

 

[bring_it_on]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kfdrjrv4Rc

 

[bobbymike]

Lexington Institute - Why we need to build a new bomber now

http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/america-needs-to-develop-a-new-bomber-now?a=1&c=1129

 

[bring_it_on]

LRS_B Revealed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCM4y6gOQdM&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiTTe3mBodoZVGVhQDpEFjg

 

[dark sidius]

We see just the shadow its what you mean Bring it on? Just after the X-47b?

 

[bring_it_on]

Yeah, i meant that. Its the most that has been revealed so far on the program ;D

 

[Avimimus]

 

[dark sidius]

In the video when the shadow pass there is a loud pulsating sound of engine interesting, may be Northrop is the first manufacturer of the LRS-B, it will make a sense they built the secret B-2 in the eighties.

 

[bring_it_on]

Well, NG is the incumbent, having worked on the B-2, and having won a contract to work on a secret High tech drone (according to BS & others)..But a cool video indeed, and a strong suggestion that the program is for theirs to loose

 

[cubit]

Perhaps they have been working on photonic metamaterials and it is essentially invisible?

 

[bobbymike]

Look at 26s to 28s mark can anyone else see canards in the shadow?

http://www.dvice.com/2012-12-10/northrop-grumman-patents-show-potential-next-gen-bomber-design

 

[dark sidius]

Yes we see a sort of canards or a shape with a double triangle a little on the front and bigger after on the shadow, it look like a little old Loockhed Martin missiler concept. A thing interesting in the video is the sound of the engines very loud.

 

[bobbymike]

I always wondered why you couldn't take the effects in the video and make a TV show. I would call it "Global Strike: Future Warfare" you'd have a new mission every week and show how America's military responds.

It would also be a great way to show the public why continued development of advanced weapons keeps the nation safe. Defense contractors would like it because it would be a 30 minute advertisement. I would like it because I like advanced weapons systems and MORE and higher defense spending. ;D

 

[bring_it_on]

As per aviotionweek, the Secret UCAV that NG is contracted for, is an extension of the cranked kite X-47 design. I am not sure whether NG has gone in for the same basic design for the LRS_B.

 

[dark sidius]

There is a great chance than the Northrop design for a LRS-B will not be the same of the well known X-47b ucav, but instead a new innovative design if the program is highly classified its for protect the design and capacity of a new type of plane like the innovative B-2 in the eighties. Its the second time in a month wee see an interesting video, the first is the 70years Skunkworks with a global strike plane with the HTV-3 shape, now its Northrop with a ghost shadow of a new futur plane so now we wait for the Boeing video

 

[bring_it_on]

Has there been any further speculation or reporting about Boeing and LMA plans to join hands and continue their previous partnership for the cancelled 2020 bomber? I totally agree with you that we are trying to look at the LRS_B from the B-2 prospective, just as many back in the day were looking at a future bomber (B-2) from the perspective of the bombers that existed before it. When the AF says that we would use MATURE technology, we all assume that they will use the advances made as stealth and LO transitioned from the B-2 to the F-22 and F-35. We know nothing about, what they have been working on as far as RCS optimized designs, materials and scaled models go. All we know is what is released to the public, sometimes years after those designs have concluded their useful testing, be it the Bird of Prey, or the Polecat etc. Its not like the STEALTH DESIGN TEAMS turned off the lights after the B-2 was in operational, or Shut shop after the F-35 design was finalized. We do not know, what sort of technologies are MATURE given the Humongous BLACK budget for R&D.

 

[dark sidius]

In 2011 a shape of a high speed bomber with inovative shape appear on the net may be a derivative of this plane, waht you thing of the sound of the engines in the video its intriguing?

 

[skyblue]

There is a great chance than the Northrop design for a LRS-B will not be the same of the well known X-47b ucav, but instead a new innovative design if the program is highly classified its for protect the design and capacity of a new type of plane like the innovative B-2 in the eighties. Its the second time in a month wee see an interesting video, the first is the 70years Skunkworks with a global strike plane with the HTV-3 shape, now its Northrop with a ghost shadow of a new futur plane so now we wait for the Boeing video

You are reading way too much into a TV commercial. This is made for public consumption, it's eye candy, PR fluff.

 

[skyblue]

In 2011 a shape of a high speed bomber with inovative shape appear on the net may be a derivative of this plane, waht you thing of the sound of the engines in the video its intriguing?

The art direction for the engine sounds was probably "something that sounds cool"

 

[bring_it_on]

There is a great chance than the Northrop design for a LRS-B will not be the same of the well known X-47b ucav, but instead a new innovative design if the program is highly classified its for protect the design and capacity of a new type of plane like the innovative B-2 in the eighties. Its the second time in a month wee see an interesting video, the first is the 70years Skunkworks with a global strike plane with the HTV-3 shape, now its Northrop with a ghost shadow of a new futur plane so now we wait for the Boeing video

You are reading way too much into a TV commercial. This is made for public consumption, it's eye candy, PR fluff.

Let us have some fun

 

[dark sidius]

Yes we are waiting to see the LRS-B like a child wait for a christmas toy ;D .

 

[dark sidius]

The LRS-B is the next great event for defense aerospace fan, since a decade no new airplane to see, the video is a promotional public video but the "firms" like to give a little message in the video like that, they can say nothing about the LRS-B because its highly classified or the secret ISR drone. They made so a little shadow or peace of a picture is made surely for the spotters in my opinion.

 

[bring_it_on]

I think they put it there (The end bit regarding the LRS_B) because this thread had been inactive for some time

 

[dark sidius]

I agree B)

 

[dark sidius]

Wait and see who have reason

 

[dark sidius]

Something very interesting about the bomber on the X-51 threat "Air Force officials have said hypersonic flight could revolutionize future aircraft to include the next generation bomber the service plans to keep developing. Service leaders don’t intend to incorporate scramjet engines on the first iterations, but hypersonic flight is being considered for future versions." Very good news for the futur of the program. May be we will see soon the same revolution to the piston engine versus jet engine. Darpa is able to do the great change of the new century.

 

[Sundog]

Something very interesting about the bomber on the X-51 threat "Air Force officials have said hypersonic flight could revolutionize future aircraft to include the next generation bomber the service plans to keep developing. Service leaders don’t intend to incorporate scramjet engines on the first iterations, but hypersonic flight is being considered for future versions." Very good news for the futur of the program. May be we will see soon the same revolution to the piston engine versus jet engine. Darpa is able to do the great change of the new century.

That is as much nonsense as I've ever read. You either design a plane to loiter and maintain stealth in subsonic flight or you design a hypersonic aircraft. You don't design the first and add engines later. I have a feeling they actually were thinking of the hypersonic propulsion in regards for a weapon that the NGB would carry. Or they were referring to a bomber to follow the NGB. Or they simply don't know what the hell they are talking about.

 

[bring_it_on]

I think the author screwed up, the claim was probably for technology that could be used in the LRS_B as part of the weapons that may be specifically designed for use by it. A New cruise missile that offers hypersonic speed is not out of the realm of possibilities as a weapon for the LRS_B as has been mentioned by some.

 

[dark sidius]

Its difficult to say in the phrase we can understand for a futur version of a bomber or may be for a weapon, we don't know what they mean.

 

[bobbymike]

From our friend at AVWeek;

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_09_17_2013_p0-617530.xml

 

[dark sidius]

There is an interesting information, it seem Lockheed build a demonstrator for the LRS-B program. If Skunk works is behind the LRS-B program we can wait for a great plane in my opinion.