US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competition

[Skybolt]

A lot must be researchied on the post-Seamaster hostory of US Navy seaplane projects. We are told that the Navy interest vanished in front of the "victory of the carrier" (the SLBMs came later). But... there was at least a couple of competions (and specifications) before eveithing ended (?). Really there were three, if we count the turboprop ASW one that was won by Convair P6Y. But on this in another post.

First of the two little known competion was related to a supersonic seaplane bombe, probably around 1956r. There were at least two contenders:
first is Martin Project 329. Specs unknown (to me...). This project had a derivative, Martin 358, which was an attack plane (probably tactical versus strategic, but could mean something else)

 

[Skybolt]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

Second contender was an un-numbered Convair project, of which tihis is one of the configurations (don't know if it is final)...
Here there is some more info: lenght m. 46.94; span m. 25.0; wing area sq. m. 241.5; engines: 4 Allison 701-C; max speed Mach 2. The desing sports a retractable water sky (similar to Sea Dart) and the two lower engine mounted on tilting pylons at takeoff. One of the designer was Hans A Amtmann, who worked with great Richard Vogt at Blohm u. Voss, and later worked for Convair and General Atomics (he was in the Orion team...). The draft (which is an official GA) come from a very beutiful Monogram book, The Vanishing Paperclips, which I much recommend.

 

[Skybolt]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

Second competition (at least a multi-source study) was for (you bet) a nuclear-powered seaplane. I have only project numbers here, one for the Convair contender (Convair 23), and the other for the Martin one (Martin 377). It was for a nuclear-powered seaplane. Year is 1959 (for the Martin project at least). This coincides with the US Navy interest in the nuclear SaRo Princess, n'est pas? They were looking for veeeeery long endurance. The Polaris program was very much along, and someone smelled of a coming "Polarosky"..

 

[Antonio]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

Vanishing paperclips it's a great book!, I agree with you

Also related to this subject is "Attack from the sea" by William F Trimble:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1591148782/sr=1-1/qid=1155073955/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9208224-7082466?ie=UTF8&s=books

And some articles about seaplane bombers and fighters from Scott Lowther's indispensable Aerospace Projects Review:

In V5N4 you have the Soviet designs

 

[Antonio]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

Northrop worked on a giant nuclear powered seaplane and even a flying aircraft carrier was designed. (Lark has been looking for pics of this giant during years)

 

[Skybolt]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

And some articles about seaplane bombers and fighters from Scott Lowther's indispensable Aerospace Projects Review:

Oh, sure, APR. Scott ran a two plus one parts articles on Convair advanced seaplane (covering the loser of the competion which produced the SeaMaster). The article was from a researcher of the San Diego museum (Bradley?, I can't find the folder now).All the projects were for subsonic or transonic planes (and a couple of supersonic concepts apparently not used in proposals) and then a jump to a Mach 4 monster... But I think that Scott has a lot up his sleeve on this subject ...http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=543.msg4027#msg4027 And even on nuclear seaplanes...http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=354.msg2155#msg2155.

Thanks for the link to the Trimble book! I received an ad from the the Naval Institute last year but probably I archived it in some black hole... Just ordered.

 

[Matej]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

Northrop worked on a giant nuclear powered seaplane and even a flying aircraft carrier was designed. (Lark has been looking for pics of this giant during years)

This one?

 

[Orionblamblam]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

Behold!

I've a bunch more yet to be drawn up.

 

[lark]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

The Northrop nuclear powered bomber was a 1956 concept
from Lee Ohlinger.It could be a variant of the atomic seaplane.

 

[Antonio]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

This one?

Yes it is

 

[Dronte]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

-Ohlinger and his creature.

-Atomic seaplane concept ( Northrop ??)


(source: "Mesa redonda sobre el avión atómico" Lyle B. Borts, F.K.Teichmann , L. A. Ohlinger. Mecánica Popular edición en español- junio de 1957)

 

[Skybolt]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

I propose a motto for this forum "Ask, and you'll be given" ;D

 

[Skybolt]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

Uh, another thing: anyone of the forum engine gurus has infos on the Allison 701 C ? (still looking for the Gunston's "Jet engine encyclopaedia" after all these years...)

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I know it was mentioned in Orionblamblam site,but I want to identify it;
http://www.up-ship.com/
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19980231992_1998394667.pdf

 

[Justo Miranda]

Convair?
From "The vanishing paperclips" by Hans H. Amtmann
Monogram Publications

 

[hesham]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

From NASA,the six-engined seaplane which was displayed in my dear
Orionblamblam E-book.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19670022636_1967022636.pdf

 

[circle-5]

Re: US Navy supersonic (mach 2) seaplane competion

A better image of the Northrop nuclear-powered seaplane, designed in the 1950s by Northrop radiation expert Lee A. Ohlinger. Purpose of long fuselage is to increase distance between flight crew and nuclear reactor, for reduced exposure during missions.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a clearer view to Convair supersonic attack seaplane.

American Flying Boats and Amphibious Aircraft

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

The file titled "SEAPLANE 1.JPG" has swept wing rather than a delta, while the other files show a delta-wing seaplane. They are definitely Convair proposals, as Convair San Diego investigated both backswept and delta wings for the Convair supersonic attack seaplanes. You can find those designs in Convair Advanced Designs: Secret Projects from San Diego 1923-1962.

 

[Deleted member 2278]

NACA report on a 4 x Iroquois variable-incidence supersonic hydroski aircraft:

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc63527/m2/1/high_res_d/19930089748.pdf

 

[Hydroman]

I am surprised the USN did not at least produce some developmental WIG vehicles for flight testing. Wonder if you could mix a level of WIG and LO into a usable configuration?

 

[Rhinocrates]

I am surprised the USN did not at least produce some developmental WIG vehicles for flight testing. Wonder if you could mix a level of WIG and LO into a usable configuration?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-martin%E2%80%99s-surface-effect-aircraft-sea.2717/

 

[Hydroman]

I am surprised the USN did not at least produce some developmental WIG vehicles for flight testing. Wonder if you could mix a level of WIG and LO into a usable configuration?

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-martin%E2%80%99s-surface-effect-aircraft-sea.2717/

Thanks, forgot about the LMCO concept.

 

[hesham]

Was this a real Supersonic Flying Boat project or what ?!.

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[Antonio]

Was this a real Supersonic Flying Boat project or what ?!.

Frank Tinsley's ornamental art.

 

[royabulgaf]

There was not enough horsepower in the industrial world to get Tinsley's plane to Mach2

 

[Yellow Palace]

Was this a real Supersonic Flying Boat project or what ?!.

Frank Tinsley's ornamental art.

And quite clearly a depiction of the P5Y, judging by the text. The supersonic flying boat is, supposedly, the next step.