US Hypersonics - Prompt Global Strike Capability
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Meanwhile on fbo, the Air Force wants to play with sounding rockets :
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=a9d162eacc37b78956c85c9762ebb5f1&tab=core&tabmode=list&=
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=a9d162eacc37b78956c85c9762ebb5f1&tab=core&tabmode=list&=
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DARPA-SN-14-25 Tactical Boost Glide (TBG) Proposers’ Day
Solicitation Number: DARPA-SN-14-25
Notice Type: Special Notice
Synopsis: Added: Mar 11, 2014 8:43 am
Type: Other (Draft RFPs/RFIs, Responses to Questions, etc..)
Posted Date: March 11, 2014
DARPA-SN-14-25_TBG_Proposers'_Day.pdf (158.95 Kb)
Description: DARPA‐SN‐14‐25 Tactical Boost Glide (TBG) Proposers’ Day
Contracting Office Address: 675 North Randolph Street
Arlington, Virginia 22203-2114
United States
Place of Performance: 675 North Randolph Street
Arlington, Virginia 22203
United States
Primary Point of Contact.: DARPA-SN-14-25@darpa.mil DARPA-SN-14-25@darpa.mil
Solicitation Number: DARPA-SN-14-25
Notice Type: Special Notice
Synopsis: Added: Mar 11, 2014 8:43 am
Type: Other (Draft RFPs/RFIs, Responses to Questions, etc..)
Posted Date: March 11, 2014
DARPA-SN-14-25_TBG_Proposers'_Day.pdf (158.95 Kb)
Description: DARPA‐SN‐14‐25 Tactical Boost Glide (TBG) Proposers’ Day
Contracting Office Address: 675 North Randolph Street
Arlington, Virginia 22203-2114
United States
Place of Performance: 675 North Randolph Street
Arlington, Virginia 22203
United States
Primary Point of Contact.: DARPA-SN-14-25@darpa.mil DARPA-SN-14-25@darpa.mil
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bobbymike said:
It's more like X-51 without the engine, or like one of the related programs from the 80s.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_07_08_2013_p24-593534.xml
I wonder how they are going to justify this given the existing SPAWAR program.
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DSE - now our hypothetical weapon systems start arms races 
http://breakingdefense.com/2014/03/hypersonic-weapons-face-major-milestone-in-august-test/?utm_source=Breaking+Defense&utm_campaign=d86f1e332f-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4368933672-d86f1e332f-407814345
http://breakingdefense.com/2014/03/hypersonic-weapons-face-major-milestone-in-august-test/?utm_source=Breaking+Defense&utm_campaign=d86f1e332f-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4368933672-d86f1e332f-407814345
bobbymike said:DSE - now our hypothetical weapon systems start arms races
http://breakingdefense.com/2014/03/hypersonic-weapons-face-major-milestone-in-august-test/?utm_source=Breaking+Defense&utm_campaign=d86f1e332f-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4368933672-d86f1e332f-407814345
Not sure what you mean by hypothetical or an arms race. Continuation of the AHW was always in the cards, as was HAWCK. Just needed a real budget for new programs to start. They didn't just pop up in reaction to the Chinese boost glide experiment.
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Just being facetious at the mention of the SR-72DSE said:bobbymike said:DSE - now our hypothetical weapon systems start arms races
http://breakingdefense.com/2014/03/hypersonic-weapons-face-major-milestone-in-august-test/?utm_source=Breaking+Defense&utm_campaign=d86f1e332f-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_4368933672-d86f1e332f-407814345
Not sure what you mean by hypothetical or an arms race. Continuation of the AHW was always in the cards, as was HAWCK. Just needed a real budget for new programs to start. They didn't just pop up in reaction to the Chinese boost glide experiment.
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A little more detail;
August Hypersonic Test Could Impact Conventional Prompt Strike Plans
Posted: Mar. 19, 2014
The results of a planned August test of a hypersonic weapon capable of striking faraway, fleeting targets on short notice could help drive the Defense Department's plans for its multimillion-dollar Conventional Prompt Global Strike program.
The department intends to conduct the second test of the Advanced Hypersonic Weapon this August, according to testimony given last week during a Senate Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee hearing. Test plans are on track, Lt. Gen. David Mann, the head of the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command/Army Forces Strategic Command and Joint Functional Component Command for Integrated Missile Defense, told lawmakers.
"Based upon the results that come from that test, then we'll go ahead and, again, work closely with [the Office of the Secretary of Defense] as to what they would like us to do, what the next steps are," Mann said. "I know that they're working with the Navy also on possible utilization of this capability."
Mann also noted the department is on target with cost, and no major scientific challenges exist at this point.
"Everything is kind of predicated on what happens after the test," Mann said, noting the results of the test "will be illuminating for the OSD folks to really take a look at where they want to go with this, how much further they want to go."
Conventional Prompt Global Strike (CPGS) systems are intended to provide a long-range, rapid, precise, non-nuclear capability for destroying high-risk targets that appear only briefly or are heavily guarded. Such weapons would evade enemy defenses in anti-access and area-denial threat environments.
The Defense Department is seeking $70.8 million for the CPGS program in fiscal year 2015, according to budget justification documents released last week, which note that "program timing will be driven by the outcome of flight test events and DOD budgets." DOD plans for $769.5 million over the future-years defense plan, with more than $200 million requested in both FY-18 and FY-19.
DOD wants most of that money -- $65.2 million in FY-15 -- to go to the sub-program that includes the Army's Advanced Hypersonic Weapon (AHW). This sub-program is designed to "test and evaluate alternative booster and delivery vehicle options and will assess the feasibility of producing an affordable alternate solution to fill the CPGS capability gap," according to the budget justification materials.
The AHW had its first successful flight test in November 2011, when it was launched from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Hawaii and traveled 2,400 miles to Kwajalein Atoll in the South Pacific.
In addition to conducting the second AHW test flight, the Pentagon's CPGS plans for FY-14 include completing the manufacturing and testing of the body and booster for the flight, and also starting post-flight test analysis, with an eye toward influencing other CPGS projects. And FY-15 plans include more test data analysis "with special emphasis on applicability to future CPGS testing" and supporting the development "of future flight test systems for alternative CPGS concepts as required," according to budget justification documents.
DOD budget documents also lay out information on a separate flight test called "Navy Flight Test 1." Plans for FY-14 include conducting a system requirements review and preliminary design reviews for this test, and FY-15 plans include conducting a "critical design review for Navy Flight Test 1 through collaboration with national CPGS team" and starting "integrated system-level test, evaluation and assembly for Navy Flight Test 1."
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency also seeks $40 million in FY-15 for a pair of programs that grew out of its Integrated Hypersonics program to help with research for weapon systems that can fly faster than the speed of sound. DARPA requested $25 million for the Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept, which is designed to "develop and demonstrate technologies that will enable transformational changes in responsive, long-range strike against time-critical or heavily defended targets." The program also seeks to "pursue flight demonstration of the critical technologies for an effective and affordable air-launched hypersonic cruise missile," according to budget documents.
Additionally, DARPA seeks $15 million in FY-15 for the tactical boost glide program, which is designed to "develop and demonstrate technologies to enable air-launched tactical range hypersonic boost glide systems, including a flight demonstration of a vehicle that is traceable to an operationally relevant weapon that can be launched from current platforms," according to budget documents. FY-15 plans including developing the initial flight test plan.
The Integrated Hypersonics program was designed to develop, mature and test technologies that travel faster than 20 times the speed of sound. The program aimed to culminate in a 2016 test flight of a full-scale, hypersonic X-plane, which ideally would have rocket-based propulsion capability and be recoverable, according to a DARPA statement released with a July 2012 Federal Business Opportunities notice.
In April 2013, DARPA told Inside the Pentagon that it was planning on rescoping the integrated hypersonics program to consider both air breathing and tactical boost glide into two major thrusts. -- Jordana Mishory
August Hypersonic Test Could Impact Conventional Prompt Strike Plans
Posted: Mar. 19, 2014
The results of a planned August test of a hypersonic weapon capable of striking faraway, fleeting targets on short notice could help drive the Defense Department's plans for its multimillion-dollar Conventional Prompt Global Strike program.
The department intends to conduct the second test of the Advanced Hypersonic Weapon this August, according to testimony given last week during a Senate Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee hearing. Test plans are on track, Lt. Gen. David Mann, the head of the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command/Army Forces Strategic Command and Joint Functional Component Command for Integrated Missile Defense, told lawmakers.
"Based upon the results that come from that test, then we'll go ahead and, again, work closely with [the Office of the Secretary of Defense] as to what they would like us to do, what the next steps are," Mann said. "I know that they're working with the Navy also on possible utilization of this capability."
Mann also noted the department is on target with cost, and no major scientific challenges exist at this point.
"Everything is kind of predicated on what happens after the test," Mann said, noting the results of the test "will be illuminating for the OSD folks to really take a look at where they want to go with this, how much further they want to go."
Conventional Prompt Global Strike (CPGS) systems are intended to provide a long-range, rapid, precise, non-nuclear capability for destroying high-risk targets that appear only briefly or are heavily guarded. Such weapons would evade enemy defenses in anti-access and area-denial threat environments.
The Defense Department is seeking $70.8 million for the CPGS program in fiscal year 2015, according to budget justification documents released last week, which note that "program timing will be driven by the outcome of flight test events and DOD budgets." DOD plans for $769.5 million over the future-years defense plan, with more than $200 million requested in both FY-18 and FY-19.
DOD wants most of that money -- $65.2 million in FY-15 -- to go to the sub-program that includes the Army's Advanced Hypersonic Weapon (AHW). This sub-program is designed to "test and evaluate alternative booster and delivery vehicle options and will assess the feasibility of producing an affordable alternate solution to fill the CPGS capability gap," according to the budget justification materials.
The AHW had its first successful flight test in November 2011, when it was launched from the Pacific Missile Range Facility in Hawaii and traveled 2,400 miles to Kwajalein Atoll in the South Pacific.
In addition to conducting the second AHW test flight, the Pentagon's CPGS plans for FY-14 include completing the manufacturing and testing of the body and booster for the flight, and also starting post-flight test analysis, with an eye toward influencing other CPGS projects. And FY-15 plans include more test data analysis "with special emphasis on applicability to future CPGS testing" and supporting the development "of future flight test systems for alternative CPGS concepts as required," according to budget justification documents.
DOD budget documents also lay out information on a separate flight test called "Navy Flight Test 1." Plans for FY-14 include conducting a system requirements review and preliminary design reviews for this test, and FY-15 plans include conducting a "critical design review for Navy Flight Test 1 through collaboration with national CPGS team" and starting "integrated system-level test, evaluation and assembly for Navy Flight Test 1."
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency also seeks $40 million in FY-15 for a pair of programs that grew out of its Integrated Hypersonics program to help with research for weapon systems that can fly faster than the speed of sound. DARPA requested $25 million for the Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept, which is designed to "develop and demonstrate technologies that will enable transformational changes in responsive, long-range strike against time-critical or heavily defended targets." The program also seeks to "pursue flight demonstration of the critical technologies for an effective and affordable air-launched hypersonic cruise missile," according to budget documents.
Additionally, DARPA seeks $15 million in FY-15 for the tactical boost glide program, which is designed to "develop and demonstrate technologies to enable air-launched tactical range hypersonic boost glide systems, including a flight demonstration of a vehicle that is traceable to an operationally relevant weapon that can be launched from current platforms," according to budget documents. FY-15 plans including developing the initial flight test plan.
The Integrated Hypersonics program was designed to develop, mature and test technologies that travel faster than 20 times the speed of sound. The program aimed to culminate in a 2016 test flight of a full-scale, hypersonic X-plane, which ideally would have rocket-based propulsion capability and be recoverable, according to a DARPA statement released with a July 2012 Federal Business Opportunities notice.
In April 2013, DARPA told Inside the Pentagon that it was planning on rescoping the integrated hypersonics program to consider both air breathing and tactical boost glide into two major thrusts. -- Jordana Mishory
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Pentagon Official Sees Global-Strike Promise in X-51A Scramjet
March 20, 2014
A Pentagon official says a futuristic scramjet technology is looking promising as a leading candidate for the U.S. "conventional prompt global strike" mission. Boeing's X-51A WaveRider hypersonic vehicle, propelled by an advanced scramjet engine, could allow the U.S. military to strike targets virtually anywhere around the globe in under an hour from receiving an attack order. With China having tested a new hypersonic glide vehicle just two months ago, "we, the U.S., do not want to be the second country to understand how to have controlled scramjet hypersonics," the Washington Times quoted Alan Shaffer, the principal deputy assistant Defense secretary for research and engineering, as telling an industry audience on Tuesday. The X-51 achieved a test breakthrough last year when it traversed several thousand miles at Mach 5 speed and reached an altitude of 80,000 feet, all in the span of a 300-second flight, the newspaper noted. That came after three tests with less successful results. "It's the second time we have shown a scramjet can ignite and give positive acceleration," Shaffer said of the 2013 flight trial of the X-51, which is launched from beneath the wing of a B-52 bomber. "That is a huge deal. That means we are now starting to understand hypersonics." He encouraged researchers to now find ways to make the technology more affordable. Other hypersonic alternatives the Pentagon is studying include the Hypersonic Technology Vehicle 2 and the Advanced Hypersonic Weapon. U.S. defense officials have said conventional prompt global strike technologies, once developed and deployed, could offer a partial alternative to the use of nuclear arms under certain circumstances. Some observers, though, have warned that fielding these weapons could introduce new misunderstandings into global crises, and might inadvertently increase the risk of nuclear war.
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Yes 'global strike promise' but we need a a submarine based, intermediate range and land based boost glide system now we can't wait for air breathing hypersonics to mature enough to be turned into a weapon system, IMHO.
March 20, 2014
A Pentagon official says a futuristic scramjet technology is looking promising as a leading candidate for the U.S. "conventional prompt global strike" mission. Boeing's X-51A WaveRider hypersonic vehicle, propelled by an advanced scramjet engine, could allow the U.S. military to strike targets virtually anywhere around the globe in under an hour from receiving an attack order. With China having tested a new hypersonic glide vehicle just two months ago, "we, the U.S., do not want to be the second country to understand how to have controlled scramjet hypersonics," the Washington Times quoted Alan Shaffer, the principal deputy assistant Defense secretary for research and engineering, as telling an industry audience on Tuesday. The X-51 achieved a test breakthrough last year when it traversed several thousand miles at Mach 5 speed and reached an altitude of 80,000 feet, all in the span of a 300-second flight, the newspaper noted. That came after three tests with less successful results. "It's the second time we have shown a scramjet can ignite and give positive acceleration," Shaffer said of the 2013 flight trial of the X-51, which is launched from beneath the wing of a B-52 bomber. "That is a huge deal. That means we are now starting to understand hypersonics." He encouraged researchers to now find ways to make the technology more affordable. Other hypersonic alternatives the Pentagon is studying include the Hypersonic Technology Vehicle 2 and the Advanced Hypersonic Weapon. U.S. defense officials have said conventional prompt global strike technologies, once developed and deployed, could offer a partial alternative to the use of nuclear arms under certain circumstances. Some observers, though, have warned that fielding these weapons could introduce new misunderstandings into global crises, and might inadvertently increase the risk of nuclear war.
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Yes 'global strike promise' but we need a a submarine based, intermediate range and land based boost glide system now we can't wait for air breathing hypersonics to mature enough to be turned into a weapon system, IMHO.
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"The X-51 achieved a test breakthrough last year when it traversed several thousand miles at Mach 5 speed and reached an altitude of 80,000 feet, all in the span of a 300-second flight, the newspaper noted."
*facepalm*
*facepalm*
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https://medium.com/war-is-boring/ffcdd8b3fe68
Wouldn't about 100 of these on a converted Helicopter Carrier provide awesome firepower?
Wouldn't about 100 of these on a converted Helicopter Carrier provide awesome firepower?
I don't get it. The article says:
These weapons don't get to hypersonic speeds without a nice big rocket that will be detected as a "launch". Wouldn't a high subsonic VLO cruise missile be better for Chinese and Iranian defenses?
These weapons don't get to hypersonic speeds without a nice big rocket that will be detected as a "launch". Wouldn't a high subsonic VLO cruise missile be better for Chinese and Iranian defenses?
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Does Iran have launch detection capability?
As for China I would say this is a great addition to a full on air war and would probably be used in conjunction with many other platforms including VLO cruise missiles IMHO.
As for China I would say this is a great addition to a full on air war and would probably be used in conjunction with many other platforms including VLO cruise missiles IMHO.
bobbymike said:
Who says we're not working that avenue?
US to Test Hypersonic Missile in August | The Diplomat
DARPA-SN-14-25 Tactical Boost Glide (TBG) Proposers’ Day - DARPA-SN-14-25 - Federal Business Opportunities: Opportunities
bobbymike said:
Test of the NASA/USAF/PW GDE-2 conducted in 2006 for the X-43C program in the NASA LaRC 8-FT High Temperature Tunnel. IIRC, GDE (Ground Demonstraion Engine-2 was a combination of the PW fuel-cooled GDE-1 tested under HyTech for the USAF with a variable geometry inlet. X-43C was envisioned to have three engine modules side-by-side, but after program cuts the test only had one. Hence the extra-wide forebody compared to the inlet.
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www.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/TD/td2003/white.pdf
Affordable Hypersonic Missiles for Long-Range Precision Strike
Michael E. White and Walter R. Price
JOHNS HOPKINS APL TECHNICAL DIGEST, VOLUME 20, NUMBER 3 (1999)
Affordable Hypersonic Missiles for Long-Range Precision Strike
Michael E. White and Walter R. Price
JOHNS HOPKINS APL TECHNICAL DIGEST, VOLUME 20, NUMBER 3 (1999)
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bobbymike said:
You are welcome. Web site hook to global strike is way off. Link to an article showing the wide rounded forebody and notional full width inlet/engine in yet another facility which no longer exists.
http://researchernews.larc.nasa.gov/archives/2003/102403/X43C.html
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bobbymike said:
I can understand the need for hypersonics, just not the "against Russians" part.
"Oh look the Americans are using hypersonic, lets NOT launch our nukes".
Does anybody believe there will be a conflict with them that does not involve nuclear weapons? Even if we're not going to nuke them, it makes more sense to use sub launched missiles for a quick strike if latency is an issue.
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sublight is back said:
I can see it. Say Russia or China nukes Hawaii as an example and then tells us to stand down or else they'll nuke a bunch of cities in the Continental US? Do you honestly believe the current administration would nuke them right back? You better HOPE they believe we would or else times are gonna get interesting indeed.
sferrin said:
Regardless of the current administrations political leanings, I think in a full holy shit situation, they would step back and give the joint chiefs complete control of the chess field at that point. I think Putin knows what he can get away with and has gamed the conflict accordingly.
But again, I am still back to, what scenario would these be useful against the Russians? If we use them, they are not going to hold back. They are gonna go nuclear.
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sublight is back said:
If we bloodied their nose in Crimea they aren't going to go WWIII on us. They ARE going to push until we force them to stop however. And rhetoric ain't gonna cut it. If you aren't willing to do that, or are afraid to, you may as well hand them the keys to the castle. This is what showing weakness gets you.
sferrin said:
Yes, and I agreed with you when I said "I think Putin knows what he can get away with and has gamed the conflict accordingly."
Are you saying PGS at Crimean targets is a viable usage scenario? It seems low signature strike weapons would maximize the surprise factor, where PGS would provide more warning.
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sublight is back said:
Remember the article says air defense 'systems' so it also means countries supplied by Russia plus the article seems to be discussing hypersonic air-breathers not CTM or the USAF Conventional Ballistic missiles.
But secondly, of course, we have to have weapons that could possibly be 'used' against Russia and/or China like our entire defense structure for the entirety of the Cold War. I also think a 'shooting war' would have started already and the US would not pre-emptively use conventional ballistic missiles in this scenario (total speculation on my part of course)
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