US Defense Spending 'Cost vs Affordability'

[indicisivedivide]

Musk's authority is very clearly spelled out in the executive order turning the USDS created to unfuck the Obamacare website into DOGE.

And that EO is utterly bulletproof. Every law cited. Specifically voiding all conflicting EOs.

His actions already violate the impoundment control act.

 

[Scott Kenny]

His actions already violate the impoundment control act.

Really?

Title X of the Act, also known as the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, specifies that the president may request that Congress rescind appropriated funds. If both the Senate and the House of Representatives have not approved a rescission proposal (by passing legislation) within forty-five days of continuous session, any funds being withheld must be made available for obligation.

It hasn't been 45 days since Trump took office.

 

[indicisivedivide]

Really?


It hasn't been 45 days since Trump took office.

FEMA funds were earmarked by Congress. Just because someone does not like what the spending is for doesn't mean that it is illegal. This was passed by a GOP house last year. Also he fired IGs which does which goes against a 90 tera old SCOTUS decision (Humphrey's Executor)

 

[joshjosh]

Really?


It hasn't been 45 days since Trump took office.

Yes, really. The administration did not provide the proper notice to congress.

 

[bobbymike]

Yes, really. The administration did not provide the proper notice to congress.

Of course there’s a legit question about whether congress can legislate restrictions on the president’s legitimate constitutional authorities. This will be decided at SCOTUS.

 

[indicisivedivide]

Of course there’s a legit question about whether congress can legislate restrictions on the president’s legitimate constitutional authorities. This will be decided at SCOTUS.

Congress can probably do that. They are not a coequal branch. They are the superior branch a small step above the Executive and judiciary.

 

[indicisivedivide]

this golden dome can spiral us into the death spiral of defense vs offense. You spend on defensive system that can be countered much cheaper which then forces you to invest more into a much more expensive counter to the counter. no money for offensive systems at that point.

Golden Dome is probably restocking patriot and aegis missiles. Probably more funding for Glide phase interceptor. Iron Dome purchase is unlikely.

 

[indicisivedivide]

R&D is a matter of necessity if you don't want to fall behind in capabilities. Admittedly you can go to extremes where the research becomes of questionable value, but when it comes to NGAD it's really hard to determine if that has been an issue since so much is classified. The limitations of actual acquisition doesn't seem to have been a failure to develop new systems. Choices like the one made with F-22 production tend to happen instead.

As for where the money comes from, it's probably against these forum rules to discuss foolish tax cuts or questionable initiatives and the politicians involved. The DoD (and government as a whole) needs to do a better job of how they spend the money, not cutting that overall figure in times like this so that money can seemingly be misappropriated elsewhere.

On this forum budget cuts are considered as impossible. But one needs to understand these tax cuts will increase the deficit, DOGE is not going to cut spending by a meaningful amount. They are cutting funding for CFPB and IRS which a positive and profitable departments. Many of these spending cuts are going to be reversed in the courts. One has to be aware of an investor revolt against the treasury which will force huge budget cuts. While everyone on the thread considered it as being impossible, be aware in a few years it is possible that there will be deep cuts.

 

[Colonial-Marine]

On this forum budget cuts are considered as impossible. But one needs to understand these tax cuts will increase the deficit, DOGE is not going to cut spending by a meaningful amount. They are cutting funding for CFPB and IRS which a positive and profitable departments. Many of these spending cuts are going to be reversed in the courts. One has to be aware of an investor revolt against the treasury which will force huge budget cuts. While everyone on the thread considered it as being impossible, be aware in a few years it is possible that there will be deep cuts.

I'd opine that maybe we should not continue with even more tax cuts that haven't benefitted the middle class in any significant way in recent memory, or decimate the CFPB or IRS, the latter of which is the very thing which brings in the tax dollars the government needs, but it feels kind of meaningless to discuss at this point. Wondering how these 6th generation fighter programs or military procurement plans in general deal with such cuts might as well be asking someone which leg they'd prefer to be hit by a shell worth of buckshot. Kind of difficult to plan for that.

 

[quellish]

What does the IRS, DOGE, the Supreme Court, or any of that stuff have to do with NGAD news and analysis?

 

[Desertfox]

NGAD requires money to fly. No money, no NGAD.

 

[quellish]

NGAD requires money to fly. No money, no NGAD.

Great. Start a thread about “Taxes to pay for NGAD” in an appropriate area of the forum.

The recent posts about DOGE, taxes, executive orders, the Supreme Court, etc have nothing to do with this topic. This is an NGAD news and analysis thread.

 

[Scott Kenny]

FEMA funds were earmarked by Congress. Just because someone does not like what the spending is for doesn't mean that it is illegal. This was passed by a GOP house last year. Also he fired IGs which does which goes against a 90 tera old SCOTUS decision (Humphrey's Executor)

To bring it to a relatively related point: a SecDef has refused to release congressionally-appointed funds before. McNamara, who refused to release F-12B Blackbird funding in an attempt to force the USAF to buy F-111s as interceptors.

 

[NMaude]

McNamara, who refused to release F-12B Blackbird funding in an attempt to force the USAF to buy F-111s as interceptors.

Why didn't the US congress remove him from office for that blatant abuse of power?

 

[bobbymike]

Congress can probably do that. They are not a coequal branch. They are the superior branch a small step above the Executive and judiciary.

So congress can limit the enumerated powers of potus defined in the constitution? Nope sorry not without a constitutional amendment. They are coequal branches with limited and specifically enumerated powers. Can they vote themselves to be commander in chief?

Congress with compliant courts have worked, unconstitutionally in my opinion, to limit these powers. But we are hopefully about to see a correction with the current SCOTUS righting the ship of state.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Why didn't the US congress remove him from office for that blatant abuse of power?

Too much of Congress liked him, IIRC.

I'm not actually sure, though.

 

[bobbymike]

Why didn't the US congress remove him from office for that blatant abuse of power?

Because he serves at the pleasure of the commander in chief not congress. They can impeach him and remove him through that process with proven illegality.

Last non NGAD POST !!!

 

[sferrin]

No but Bridge's and Hegseth's boss fired a whole lot of people and he's not even a U.S. citizen.

Trump is a is a US citizen.

 

[sferrin]

On this forum budget cuts are considered as impossible. But one needs to understand these tax cuts will increase the deficit, DOGE is not going to cut spending by a meaningful amount. They are cutting funding for CFPB and IRS which a positive and profitable departments. Many of these spending cuts are going to be reversed in the courts. One has to be aware of an investor revolt against the treasury which will force huge budget cuts. While everyone on the thread considered it as being impossible, be aware in a few years it is possible that there will be deep cuts.

Jesus Christ, every goddamn one of your posts is some government / political BS, no matter the topic. Great addition to the ignore list.

 

[NMaude]

Trump is a is a US citizen.

I do believe he was referring to the Muskrat.

 

[Kat Tsun]

Very little military equipment is made outside the US.

The Stryker is made in London, Ontario, for one particularly large item. Subcomponents like the Protector RWS are made in Norway IIRC.

It probably won't make Stryker Brigades unaffordable but it might mean more of them get shifted to Infantry BCTs with only JLTV and M10.

 

[bobbymike]

I do believe he was referring to the Muskrat.

Who is also a US citizen

 

[Dilandu]

Why didn't the US congress remove him from office for that blatant abuse of power?

Mainly because his arguments seems pretty logical, and his main goal of "more reasonable spending" was pretty liked by Congress.

 

[donnage99]

The cabinet which comprises the heads of major agencies are recommended by the president but has to be sworn in by Congress. Elon wasn't. But he himself isn't part of the government in any official way thus not subjected to that process. ONe can argue he's more of a contractor acting to carry out the executive order of the president. So what in the constitutional fuck now?

I believe downsizing the federal government and spending is absolutely necessary to the survival of the republic but DOGE is leaving behind a bloodbath from a legal aspect. The implication for future presidencies whether left leaning or right is huge.

 

[Cancerman]

Who is also a US citizen

He is a South African here on a green card.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

He is a South African here on a green card.

He arrived on a student visa I think, but he got US citizenship in 2002 and has Canadian citizenship via his mother, as well as his South African citizenship. However, this is now off topic in the offtopic topic

 

[NMaude]

and has Canadian citizenship via his mother

Which the Canadian government is in the process of revoking.

 

[bobbymike]

Executive Order Formally Establishes U.S. DOGE Service with IT Modernization Initiative

Among the flurry of executive actions taken during his first day in office, President Trump formally established the U.S. Department of Government Efficiency Service (DOGE) via executive order (EO) on…

www.crowell.com

Among the flurry of executive actions taken during his first day in office, President Trump formally established the U.S. Department of Government Efficiency Service (DOGE) via executive order (EO) on January 20, 2025, reconstituting the formerly named U.S. Digital Service that was created in 2014 by President Obama within the Office of Management and Budget.

 

[sferrin]

He is a South African here on a green card.

He's a US citizen. Even the leftist rag known as "Wikipedia" says so.

 

[sferrin]

Two things: Bill Clinton and Al Gore in 1993 made a similar initiative to simplify bureaucracy and eliminate any waste. Second, lately you have really gone overboard writing the worst bullshit about things you don't know, so stop it.

And they got rid of 375,000 government employees. So the hysterical panty-wringing from the left is really quite hypocritical.

 

[donnage99]

Two things: Bill Clinton and Al Gore in 1993 made a similar initiative to simplify bureaucracy and eliminate any waste. Second, lately you have really gone overboard writing the worst bullshit about things you don't know, so stop it.

Some reading comprehension is needed on your end. In case you were too trigger happy and missed FIRST sentence of my second paragraph (in which there are only 2) I said I'm completely behind government downsizing. The legal pathway is the matter of interest here.

Clinton effort was a gradual campaign (reviews, studies, hearings) that eventually passed as legislation by both houses of Congress.

 

[bobbymike]

Other than the advise and consent role of the senate for specific “constitutional officer” positions every employee in the executive branch serves at the pleasure of the president.

Since Nixon and the so called imperial president congress has sought to hamstring this authority. With massive democrat majorities at the time they sought to enshrine the 4th branch of government informally called the administrative state unionized unmoving impossible to fire staffed with leftists. They largely succeeded. DC bureaucrats were 92-8% Biden and that is not heathy for any country.

The time has come for a legal fight and for the president to get back his rightful authority over the executive branch. He is the executive branch.

 

[Desertfox]

Trump made his hatred for federal employees quite clear since 2016, THAT is why they voted 92% for Biden. When someone promises to fire you of course you will vote for the other guy. I was a federal employee from 2014 to 2019, I can tell you that they were not 92% Democrats and with a normal Republican would have likely voted 55% GOP.

 

[bobbymike]

Trump made his hatred for federal employees quite clear since 2016, THAT is why they voted 92% for Biden. When someone promises to fire you of course you will vote for the other guy. I was a federal employee from 2014 to 2019, I can tell you that they were not 92% Democrats and with a normal Republican would have likely voted 55% GOP.

Really do a little research you’re so wrong you think you’ve come back around to right.

United States presidential elections in the District of Columbia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[aim9xray]

Really do a little research you’re so wrong you think you’ve come back around to right.

United States presidential elections in the District of Columbia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Just to understand better - are you implying that all federal employees live in and vote from the District of Columbia? Otherwise, why is DC relevant?

Doing a little research; a quick fact check (google):
Number of Federal employees in 2016 = approximately 3 million [reference]
Number of residents in Washington DC in 2016 = 681,170. [reference]

Respectfully, WTFO?

 

[quellish]

In my own personal experience very few federal employees live in DC. From what I can recall every one that I knew lived in VA and MD and commuted to DC.

 

[Scott Kenny]

The Stryker is made in London, Ontario, for one particularly large item. Subcomponents like the Protector RWS are made in Norway IIRC.

It probably won't make Stryker Brigades unaffordable but it might mean more of them get shifted to Infantry BCTs with only JLTV and M10.

How many strykers are getting bought each year? It's not like we're just standing up Stryker brigades and having to buy all the vehicles.

 

[NMaude]

Just to understand better - are you implying that all federal employees live in and vote from the District of Columbia? Otherwise, why is DC relevant?

I learned last week that for example a large number of IRS employees live and work in Kansas City.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I learned last week that for example a large number of IRS employees live and work in Kansas City.

The entire USFS HR and IT departments are in Albuquerque, for another example.

 

[donnage99]

Since Nixon and the so called imperial president congress has sought to hamstring this authority. With massive democrat majorities at the time they sought to enshrine the 4th branch of government informally called the administrative state unionized unmoving impossible to fire staffed with leftists. They largely succeeded. DC bureaucrats were 92-8% Biden and that is not heathy for any country.

Yes and No. Dem led congress during Nixon did try to limit him but it's not clear cut philosophical alignments of the parties. They did that with W Bush. However, GOP led Congress tried to limit Obama and sued his use of executive powers. Every president dem or republican have always pushed for more authority and every opposing congress when led by the other party had always argued that such and such powers belonged to Congress.

In general conservatives' fundamental tenet is to reduce the powers of the executive branch, which including downsizing the federal government AND reducing the powers of the president and hand those powers back to Congress. What Trump is doing is an interesting crossroad. He is flexing the power of the president in order to reduce the size of the federal government.