Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR)

[yasotay]

You might find it interesting to know that the Pacim model rotors were "geared" so they would turn if you pushed on them.

 

[fredymac]

Bell's V-247 seems to be conceptually similar to the UCAR program although it is somewhat bigger and with fairly large payload/range (2000lbs internal/1000 miles) specifications. It may be chasing any market that arises from the DARPA TERN project. Either would probably fit well with the Independence type LCS and would make for an interesting experiment as a UAV mini-carrier especially as the V-247 mentions an internal sensor package which could serve in an AWACS role.

 

[yasotay]

V-247 is chasing the USMC MUX requirement.

 

[shin_getter]

With the pivot to pacific and breakthroughs in AI, it appears that this program seems to make more sense than ever.

Was the Northrop Grumman design really suppose to have 1200 mile range and cost <$8mil (2005)? With a vehicle like this, the army can do forward island basing to win the naval war, as funny as it may sound.

FARA that have order of magnitude less range just look funny in comparison.

 

[yasotay]

Since the effort never got beyond the conceptual stage it is hard to comment on the cost although I have to say I doubt they would have been <$8M unit cost. As with most DARPA efforts, cost was not a primary concern so much as demonstration of the technology. The entire project was terminated and almost all of the data sequestered by DARPA within a month of the announcement by the Army that they would not provide funding for the program. Both teams were quite confident in meeting the parameters DARPA and the Army set down.

 

[Hydroman]

It's too bad UCAR did not move forward and was cancelled, NG and LM both had very good designs. Like other aircraft LO strike programs, UCAR could hit the very high-value assets then the Apaches and Cobras could move in with their larger payloads. Would also be good compliments for the new Army platforms.

 

[yasotay]

The key part of the comment above; "then the Apaches and Cobras could move". No mention of Comanche, which was project #1. This is why the Army elected not to fund UCAR.

 

[Hydroman]

The Army then screwed up Comanche and cancelled it.

 

[yasotay]

How many "new start" rotorcraft programs (not off the shelf) has US Army Aviation brought to fruition?

 

[flateric]

...

 

[yasotay]

...

Wow! Blast from the past. It is a shame that UCAR did not progress. Both teams had made superb progress with their programs. DARPA was very unhappy with the US Army's decision. All of the data was recovered by DARPA and either destroyed or locked away in a wooden box in their Indiana Jones'esque underground warehouse.

 

[aim9xray]

I should expect that would be Warehouse 13; not NARA OL Mar-a-Lago.

 

[quellish]

...

Wow! Blast from the past. It is a shame that UCAR did not progress. Both teams had made superb progress with their programs. DARPA was very unhappy with the US Army's decision. All of the data was recovered by DARPA and either destroyed or locked away in a wooden box in their Indiana Jones'esque underground warehouse.

A lot of the signature reduction work was applied to later programs. For example, for UCAR they developed the capability to measure small signatures on the pole with dynamic components (rotors, etc) running. No small feat and apparently had not been done before.

 

[yasotay]

...

Wow! Blast from the past. It is a shame that UCAR did not progress. Both teams had made superb progress with their programs. DARPA was very unhappy with the US Army's decision. All of the data was recovered by DARPA and either destroyed or locked away in a wooden box in their Indiana Jones'esque underground warehouse.

A lot of the signature reduction work was applied to later programs. For example, for UCAR they developed the capability to measure small signatures on the pole with dynamic components (rotors, etc) running. No small feat and apparently had not been done before.

Good to hear that something came of the project. I did get a cool model out of the deal.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Can anyone confirm the data here:

 

[yasotay]

The data for UCAR appears reasonable. Unfortunatley when DARPA closed out the program, they ordered all information and technical data returned or destroyed. I will look to see if any non-proprietary info beyond vendor sales brochure is still out there.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The data for UCAR appears reasonable. Unfortunatley when DARPA closed out the program, they ordered all information and technical data returned or destroyed. I will look to see if any non-proprietary info beyond vendor sales brochure is still out there.

Thanks!

 

[TomS]

Some numbers from Flight International in September 2004, quoting the DARPA PM that I don't see them anywhere else in the thread. Not sure if it is directly comparable to the numbers in the chart above, but maybe it helps?

New details of UCAR bids emerge

www.flightglobal.com

The US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has released new details on Lockheed Martin's and Northrop Grumman's candidates for the Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR) programme. A downselect is expected by December.The Lockheed Martin air vehicle is expected to have a combat endurance of 4.5h with a full weapons load, but would also be capable of extended endurance operations of 9.5h. The compound airframe design would have a cruise speed of 170kt (315km/h). Total payload capacity, with weapons and sensors, is 320kg (700lb).

DARPA programme director Don Woodbury says the Lockheed Martin air vehicle "is a derivative of a commercial aircraft, the Bell 407 [helicopter] with much greater capability, a cleaner shape". The wings are removable for storage. The removal of the tail rotor and its replacement by a thruster means the aircraft will achieve "dash speeds of over 180kt".

The Northrop Grumman design is derived from the Kaman K-Max helicopter airframe, retaining twin counter-rotating main rotors. The aircraft would have an empty weight of 2,125kg and an armed take-off weight, based on carriage of four AGM-114 Hellfire missiles in internal bays, of 2,900kg, with maximum take-off weight at 4,000kg. Maximum endurance, using an auxiliary fuel tank, is 10.6h with a flight range of 1,780km (960nm). The aircraft's total length, including rotor blades, would be 11m (35.8ft). Rotor diameter is 9.75m.

Both UCAR teams are offering a combined suite incorporating electro-optic and infrared imaging, laser radar, multimode radar with integrated moving target indication capability, electronic support measures, and nuclear, biological and chemical contaminant detection systems.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The Northrop Grumman ... aircraft's total length, including rotor blades, would be 11m (35.8ft). Rotor diameter is 9.75m.

Matches reasonably closely with the data in the chart.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Hrm...

AI tech wasn't there yet, and I'm not convinced that it's there now.

Should be there in less than 20 years, though.

Edit: for whatever reason, I was not picturing these to be AH1 sized...