Under Armour/ Lockheed Martin 'Mach 39' suit (Sochi Games)

[lastdingo]

Sez the guy posting on the descendant of ARPAnet, who will in the next few days probably watch American TV programs, catch an American movie (perhaps on a PC or a Mac), listen to Americans sing American rap or American rock (possibly on an Ipod), wear blue jeans and sneakers, use Google to look something up, order something from Amazon, buy something on eBay and have some Starbucks, McDonalds and Coke, all while not being forced to speak German, present papers, worship the emperor, quote from the Little Red Book or pay tribute to the Politburo...

Even Hitler never dreamt about ruling America, to pretend so only means to show one's poor history education.

The United States make up about 40% of the Western world in regard to population. It's the biggest and most homogeneous market, which means many product developments are more economical for and in the U.S. market than elsewhere.

But the United States are struggling to meet the 40% in regard to cultural progress. The Scandinavian countries are extremely successful culture-wise, relative to their population. They got something to be proud of; the United States are merely large.

Besides; with all your mis-use of commercial products and brands as evidence for culture, have fun trying to ride a car with an engine not invented or first applied to automotive purposes by a German.
You would need to find one with a steam engine; those were invented or first applied to automotive purposes by Frenchmen.

 

[Orionblamblam]

But the United States are struggling to meet the 40% in regard to cultural progress.

I'm curious how you objectively quantify "cultural progress."

The Scandinavian countries are extremely successful culture-wise, relative to their population. They got something to be proud of;

What cultural progress?

 

[Stargazer]

Not being very much of a sports person myself (and even that is an understatement) I have always been puzzled as to what people can find thrilling about watching for hours on end groups of little guys on bikes filmed from a helicopter. Some people have argued that they don't actually watch the Tour de France for the sport itself but for the opportunity it gives them to see beautiful landscapes of the country. I think it very unconvincing an explanation.


Mind you, I will also forever wonder the interest of watching someone throw a ball at another guy holding a bat, then suddenly running around like his life's at stake, so I'm probably not the best person to ask about sports... I complain every year over the May-July period that French national TV channels are hijacked by tennis, cycling, soccer, rugby and so forth...

 

[Orionblamblam]

What cricket needs is robots and explosives.

A novel take on 'civilized'.

An old one, straight out of classic literature.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Some people have argued that they don't actually watch the Tour de France for the sport itself but for the opportunity it gives them to see beautiful landscapes of the country.

Sounds like car race fans. Sure, they claim they love the thrill of the actual racing, but what gets 'em on their feet? Cars flying through the air on fire spewing shrapnel and body parts.

Maybe people are hoping that there will be a bike accident, and, with all the interesting and illegal drugs being used, one or more of the bikers will burst into flames or even detonate.

Hmmm. You know, that actually sounds interesting. Turn the race into more of a jihad; if there was a fair chance that at least one of the bikers was loaded with semtex, it might be more entertaining.

I complain every year over the May-July period that French national TV channels are hijacked by tennis, cycling, soccer, rugby and so forth...

Well, at least France gets all that nonsense out of its system by the end of July so that they all get back to work, nose to the grindstone, in August...

 

[Arjen]

What cricket needs is robots and explosives.

A novel take on 'civilized'.

An old one, straight out of classic literature.

'Civilized' straight out of Dante's Inferno. Kudos.

 

[Orionblamblam]

'Civilized' straight out of Dante's Inferno. Kudos.

Really? Your cultural ignorance makes baby Marvin cry, rusting all the diodes down his left side. You monster.

 

[Arjen]

Share and Enjoy.

 

[bobbymike]

Some people have argued that they don't actually watch the Tour de France for the sport itself but for the opportunity it gives them to see beautiful landscapes of the country.

Sounds like car race fans. Sure, they claim they love the thrill of the actual racing, but what gets 'em on their feet? Cars flying through the air on fire spewing shrapnel and body parts.

Maybe people are hoping that there will be a bike accident, and, with all the interesting and illegal drugs being used, one or more of the bikers will burst into flames or even detonate.

Hmmm. You know, that actually sounds interesting. Turn the race into more of a jihad; if there was a fair chance that at least one of the bikers was loaded with semtex, it might be more entertaining.

I complain every year over the May-July period that French national TV channels are hijacked by tennis, cycling, soccer, rugby and so forth...

Well, at least France gets all that nonsense out of its system by the end of July so that they all get back to work, nose to the grindstone, in August...

Slightly off topic but I was watching a show on the rise of Ferrari Racing and they showed a race crash in the 1930s that KILLED 60 PEOPLE!! If that happened today racing would be banned outright back then they raced the next week.

 

[Stargazer]

Slightly off topic but I was watching a show on the rise of Ferrari Racing and they showed a race crash in the 1930s that KILLED 60 PEOPLE!! If that happened today racing would be banned outright back then they raced the next week.

True. This being said, as a sometime F1 watcher I find today's races boring. It's the occasional bumping, sliding off-track and tire-bursting that makes the races a little more captivating... which more or less goes along the same line of thinking: when the result is predictable and the performance expected, watching sports is a lot less fun. Of course I'm NOT saying there should be accidents to make car races worthwhile, just that the element of danger or the possible advent of something unexpected make watching races (be they car, horse, aircraft or greyhound races) a lot more interesting than when every single detail is so well thought out that nothing unusual is likely to happen. And of course this only highlights one of the many paradoxes of our supposedly "advanced" and "civilized" human nature...

 

[lastdingo]

What cultural progress?

Dude, better don't try this. You'll lose horribly if we allow nitpicking bad details. The United States are failing horribly in lots of categories. Percentage of incarcerated population, for example.

The Scandinavians progressed public service very much, are unusually strong on popular and rock music, have plenty of extremely impressive statistics (equality, emancipation, health, education, satisfaction, ...) and generally get a lot of details done very much better than many other Western countries, including my country.

 

[Orionblamblam]

The Scandinavians progressed public service very much, are unusually strong on popular and rock music, have plenty of extremely impressive statistics (equality, emancipation, health, education, satisfaction, ...) and generally get a lot of details done very much better than many other Western countries, including my country.

Many European nations have done well by taking tax money and spending it on social goodies. But this can only continue as long as the money is there. Europe has been skating by with minimal military spending, thanks to Uncle Sugar providing their defense for them. But those days are coming to an end (quickly, if Putin has anything to say about it). European demographics are also changing, with the locals getting old and gray and relatively childless, while importing vast numbers of people with *very* different cultures and little desire to adopt the local cultural norms. To outsiders, Europe looks like it's heading towards cultural disaster in a few generations; right now it looks like one giant party before the even gianter bill comes due.

As for lots of Americans locked up: Well, yeah. Lots of Americans break the law. A lot of those laws look to change, though... legalization of pot will help a lot. But reading the news from many places in Europe, the crime rates are just as bad if not worse, but the criminals don't get locked up. Rapists getting to skate since what they did wasn't considered wrong in their native cultures, for instance. Britain has a murder rate the equal of the US's, but due to the way they keep the records (a murder doesn't count towards the murder rate until the murder is caught, prosecuted and sentenced), the claim is made that the *official* murder rate is lower than in the evil, stoopid USA.

In short: unless an objective numerical standard can be agreed upon using the exact same standards of measure, claiming that one country is ahead or behind in "cultural progress" or some such is at best dubious. Without objective measures, you get this:

 

[Colonial-Marine]

I don't think the Scandinavian nations make a very valid comparison to the United States culturally when you consider their small, very homogenous populations.

Now this is the part where in my experience somebody usually says "But if we cut the military budget we could pay for everything for everyone like the Swedes." :

Maybe there is some way to make some sort of "universal" health care work in the US, but the backwards way we're going about it I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow I got a letter stating that I must turn over one of my kidneys to the government or face a fine so somebody abusing welfare or in prison can get surgery.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I don't think the Scandinavian nations make a very valid comparison to the United States culturally when you consider their small, very homogenous populations.

They are becoming less homogenous. And all kinds of interesting news stories are coming from where the cultures are running into each other.

 

[marauder2048]

They are becoming less homogenous. And all kinds of interesting news stories are coming from where the cultures are running into each other.

In this regard, a close examination of the racial makeup of the US prison population is very instructive.

 

[Stargazer]

Many European nations have done well by taking tax money and spending it on social goodies. But this can only continue as long as the money is there. Europe has been skating by with minimal military spending, thanks to Uncle Sugar providing their defense for them. But those days are coming to an end (quickly, if Putin has anything to say about it). European demographics are also changing, with the locals getting old and gray and relatively childless, while importing vast numbers of people with *very* different cultures and little desire to adopt the local cultural norms. To outsiders, Europe looks like it's heading towards cultural disaster in a few generations; right now it looks like one giant party before the even gianter bill comes due.

Most of the above is pretty valid I would say — unfortunately — though I have one objection: although the cultural future of Europe seems uncertain, to quite a few Europeans it is the US which is rapidly heading towards disaster — not necessarily cultural but from a larger societal viewpoint. A country quagmired by lobbying, lawyers and political correctness, where a teenager can tote a gun but not see a breast, where television reigns supreme to turn thinking citizens into unopinionated, consuming couch potatoes, a nation divided by racism, bigotry and religious fanaticism, a country where the same crime can lead to prison or death penalty depending on where you live, a land so ridden with paradox that it seems just like a matter of time before it implodes some way or other!


Although Europeans love many aspects of American culture and have nothing against Americans in general, I'm sure many of us would NOT see themselves living in the US. I know I certainly wouldn't.

 

[bobbymike]

The philosophical question always returns to;

How does a continent produce Beethoven, Wittgenstein, et al and Hitler, Stalin and others?

That said of course each nation can point to 'cultural' achievements but there really is no argument about who dominates global 'popular' culture/Tech culture when you can go to any country and see someone wearing a Kobe jersey pants hanging below their butts while listening to Eminem or 50 Cent going to watch the latest Hollywood blockbuster all done with only 5% of the global population. AND if you get hurt you go to a hospital completely filled with US medical advances supplied by that same 5% of the global population that somehow has produced 80% of all Nobel's in Medicine.

 

[Orionblamblam]

A country quagmired by lobbying, lawyers and political correctness,

Now *there* you have a point. However... as bad as PC is in the US, to all accounts it's *worse* in Europe.

where a teenager can tote a gun but not see a breast,

Buh? I'm sure this is some sort of dig at Americas decades-long declining violence rate or ever-present nekkid ladies, but I'm not sure I really get it.

where television reigns supreme to turn thinking citizens into unopinionated, consuming couch potatoes,

Eurovision?

a nation divided by racism, bigotry and religious fanaticism,

We have those, but we're hardly divided by them.

a country where the same crime can lead to prison or death penalty depending on where you live,

Also depending in the jury you get. Easy solution to that, though... don't commit murder if you don't want to face the death penalty.

a land so ridden with paradox that it seems just like a matter of time before it implodes some way or other!

Uh-huh.

Although Europeans love many aspects of American culture

And willingly consume it in vast quantities.

 

[lastdingo]

Many European nations have done well by taking tax money and spending it on social goodies. But this can only continue as long as the money is there. Europe has been skating by with minimal military spending, thanks to Uncle Sugar providing their defense for them.

Actually, my country (West Germany) provided 12 of 26 divisions guarding the main NATO/Warsaw pact front plus almost equivalent territorial reserve units, while the US provided a mere seven and planned for decades to bomb my country into the stone age.
West Germany helped a lot to protect the West, but it's a myth that the West protected West Germany after its rearmament during the late 50's.

And it's not that European mil spending is too low; there's no threat justifying higher expenses and its Cold War mil expenses were much more cost-efficient than the American ones. The issue is that the U.S. is spending way too much on its military, and does stupid things with it (quite often in direct violation to its North Atlantic Treaty obligations).


Besides; spending very, very much on the military isn't high culture; it's the absence thereof.

 

[bobbymike]

Many European nations have done well by taking tax money and spending it on social goodies. But this can only continue as long as the money is there. Europe has been skating by with minimal military spending, thanks to Uncle Sugar providing their defense for them.

Actually, my country (West Germany) provided 12 of 26 divisions guarding the main NATO/Warsaw pact front plus almost equivalent territorial reserve units, while the US provided a mere seven and planned for decades to bomb my country into the stone age.
West Germany helped a lot to protect the West, but it's a myth that the West protected West Germany after its rearmament during the late 50's.

And it's not that European mil spending is too low; there's no threat justifying higher expenses and its Cold War mil expenses were much more cost-efficient than the American ones. The issue is that the U.S. is spending way too much on its military, and does stupid things with it (quite often in direct violation to its North Atlantic Treaty obligations).


Besides; spending very, very much on the military isn't high culture; it's the absence thereof.

So West Germany provided less than 1/2 of the divisions to stop the invasion of its own homeland? Impressive :

AND they provided it more efficiently than a nation that had to move men, material AND base them halfway across the world who would have thunk it?

And while West Germany was apparently 'rearming' did you notice that nice big nuclear umbrella over your head during that time?

 

[sferrin]

but it's a myth that the West protected West Germany after its rearmament during the late 50's.

Really? How many nukes did West Germany deploy as a deterrent? I believe that answer is: none. Those were all US.

 

[Orionblamblam]

And it's not that European mil spending is too low; there's no threat justifying higher expenses...

Vladimir Putin thanks you for your lack of concern.

Besides; spending very, very much on the military isn't high culture; it's the absence thereof.

That's a bizarre metric. What one *does* with the military - or doesn't do - would seem a better measure.

And so, please compare and contrast the US Navy's response to, say, the 2004 tsunami to that of the German navy.

 

[lastdingo]

but it's a myth that the West protected West Germany after its rearmament during the late 50's.

Really? How many nukes did West Germany deploy as a deterrent? I believe that answer is: none. Those were all US.

And almost all of the nukes deployed to Europe by the United States were meant to be used on German territory.
That's not defence, that's annihilation.
But we saw this particular American confusion already in Vietnam, of course.

And it's not that European mil spending is too low; there's no threat justifying higher expenses...

Vladimir Putin thanks you for your lack of concern.

This only shows your ignorance about the actual relation of military strength in Europe.
http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de/2014/01/european-and-russian-military-capability.html


Feel free to add up the brigade equivalents of NATO; the American ones will inevitably be in the minority despite their insane spending.
that's because so much of American mil spending isn't about defence, but about bridging the oceans, maintaining the very expensive forward deployment, pork and about the ability to bully small powers anywhere on short notice.
Countries like Spain or Denmark spend almost everything of their mil budget on actual defence capability, by comparison.

 

[Orionblamblam]

And almost all of the nukes deployed to Europe by the United States were meant to be used on German territory.
That's not defence, that's annihilation.

Ah. I see where you're confused and/or tragically misinformed: the US nukes were not meant to be used on West Germany. They were meant to dissuade the Soviets from invading. And they succeeded.

You're welcome.

But we saw this particular American confusion already in Vietnam, of course.

Yeah, the lack of a credible nuclear threat against the VN communists was in no small part responsible for the communists taking over the South.

Countries like Spain or Denmark spend almost everything of their mil budget on actual defence capability, by comparison.

Agreed! For European governments, military spending is all about "me, me, me," where the US military, being much more civilized, takes into account the larger world. Unless someone invades Spain, do you think the Spanish are going to make much of an effort at fighting a distant war? No.

Heck: when the comet is found heading for an Earth impact, who ya gonna call? The Danes?

 

[bobbymike]

And almost all of the nukes deployed to Europe by the United States were meant to be used on German territory.
That's not defence, that's annihilation.

Ah. I see where you're confused and/or tragically misinformed: the US nukes were not meant to be used on West Germany. They were meant to dissuade the Soviets from invading. And they succeeded.

You're welcome.

But we saw this particular American confusion already in Vietnam, of course.

Yeah, the lack of a credible nuclear threat against the VN communists was in no small part responsible for the communists taking over the South.

Countries like Spain or Denmark spend almost everything of their mil budget on actual defence capability, by comparison.

Agreed! For European governments, military spending is all about "me, me, me," where the US military, being much more civilized, takes into account the larger world. Unless someone invades Spain, do you think the Spanish are going to make much of an effort at fighting a distant war? No.

Heck: when the comet is found heading for an Earth impact, who ya gonna call? The Danes?

The last quote is PRICELESS ;D

 

[Orionblamblam]

[quote author=lastdingo]
[quote author=Orionblamblam]
[quote author=lastdingo]

And it's not that European mil spending is too low; there's no threat justifying higher expenses...[/quote]

Vladimir Putin thanks you for your lack of concern.[/quote]

This only shows your ignorance about the actual relation of military strength in Europe.
http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.de/2014/01/european-and-russian-military-capability.html


[/quote]

I'm sorry, i couldn't hear you over the sound of Vladimir Putin conquering a good chunk of a sovereign European nation with military forces...

Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea regionBoy howdy, those much-vaunted Spanish, Danish and German forces really put the scare on the Russians, didn't they!


Well, I'm sure they'll get up to speed by the time the T-92s are rolling through Paris...

 

[lastdingo]

You seem to be ignorant about the fact that the Ukraine is not member of the Lisbon Treaty alliance nor is it member of the North Atlantic Treaty alliance nor did any country in Europe guarantee its sovereignty, borders or independence.

You also seem to ignore the fact that no American troops have arrived in numbers anywhere close to the Ukraine yet.
And all that American military spending hasn't exactly put Putin enough in awe to not mess up the Ukraine.


So what -other than displaying ignorance- was your point?

 

[martinbayer]

Without objective measures, you get this:

How funny you used the picture of a British citizen to symbolize the USA (I assume you didn't *really* mean the whole continent of North America, let alone the Americas as a whole)... Couldn't find any truly merkan icons as a stand in?

But regarding the original discussion in this thread, the news headlines today reminded me of another relevant data point that illustrates where sports may (rightly or wrongly) be headed - the example of Oscar Pistorius.

 

[Orionblamblam]

How funny you used the picture of a British citizen to symbolize the USA

On the one hand it's funny because it's a funny picture. On the other hand, it's perfectly sensible because the *character* is an American. On the gripping hand, it's sensible because no matter where you are born, you can become an American. So... not really sure what your beef is here.

(I assume you didn't *really* mean the whole continent of North America, let alone the Americas as a whole

And there's no reason why you should or would. Nobody on this Earth doesn't understand what is meant by the word "American."

Couldn't find any truly merkan icons as a stand in?

"Merkan?" Please define.

 

[martinbayer]

"Merkan?" Please define.

Please google. First hit should get you there.

 

[Orionblamblam]

"Merkan?" Please define.

Please google. First hit should get you there.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/merkan?s=ts
merkan- no dictionary resultsHowever...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=merkan
Derogatory term for a citizen of the United States of America. Sometimes spelled mercan.


But on the other hand...
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/American?s=ts1. of or pertaining to the United States of America or its inhabitants: an American citizen.

So... huh. "American" confuses you, even though it has a standard, well-understood meaning. And in your confusion, you fall back on insults.

 

[martinbayer]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=merkan
Derogatory term for a citizen of the United States of America. Sometimes spelled mercan.

I'm not the least bit surprised you evidently stopped reading after the first few lines. The meaning I was (admittedly somewhat ironic) referring to is further down the page that defines merkan as:

A super patriotic American at least 1/4 Borg, Sith, or Romulan.

If you consider that as an insult, then that's your problem.

 

[Orionblamblam]

If you consider that as an insult, so be it.

And who uses the word "Merkan" in that context?

 

[sferrin]

A super patriotic American: 1/4 Borg, 1/4 Sith, 1/4 Romulan and 1/4 Evel Knievel.

If you consider that as an insult, then that's your problem.

Fixed. ;D

 

[martinbayer]

If you consider that as an insult, so be it.

And who uses the word "Merkan" in that context?

Looking at the example given for the definition, people who don't like John Kerry.

 

[Orionblamblam]

And who uses the word "Merkan" in that context?

Looking at the example given for the definition, people who don't like John Kerry.

Huh. I wouldn't have taken you for a Kerry-hater.

 

[martinbayer]

Huh. I wouldn't have taken you for a Kerry-hater.

Since you were clearly aware that I had used the term, I interpreted your question as aiming to understand who *else* might use it, so I pointed out the specific example I was aware of. But that does not automatically mean that I fall into that group myself, or that that that is necessarily the *only* group. If you want to gain a full understanding of who uses that term in what context, I recommend you perform your own research.

 

[Orionblamblam]

If you want to gain a full understanding of who uses that term in what context, I recommend you perform your own research.

I am fully aware of who uses the word "Merkan" and variant spellings. It is exclusively used by left wingers who think they are being clever when insulting right wingers by pretending to "speak" in the voice of what they choose to perceive to be the voice of right wingers, yet they only succeed in making themselves look lame. I was kinda hoping you'd come to realize just how sad it is, but...

In any event... yes, Dr. House is quite an *American* icon.

 

[bobbymike]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571917/Membrane-heart-pumping-forever-possibly-prevent-heart-attacks.html

Another amazing 'Mercan' medical team

 

[kcran567]

Really? You think that steroids and genetic engineering are stuck in the realm of fanciful sci-fi?

Did I say that? What is in the realm of science fiction is genetically engineered super soldiers and "five million 8-foot-tall Chinese behemoths"... :


Besides, what I was taking exception to was the ascertain that bans on use of performance enhancing drugs and genetic manipulation in sport were stupid. For one it is not in the spirit of the events nor is it in the health interests of those affected. I believe that if someone is openly calling for such things then they should be at the front of the queue when it comes to trailing them...or aren't they prepared to but their money health where their mouth (or keyboard) is? :

8 foot tall super soldiers aside, the cheapest way to make a super soldier would be to hop soldiers up on steroids, stimulants, and most importantly a chemical that would make a soldier feel absolutely no fear. That being said I'm also totally against the idea including transhumanism. But it is coming if not already here. Will the very elite rich get all the genetic/etc. enhancements leaving us all in the dust?