Unbuilt Type-XXIX u-boat

[covert_shores]

Am looking for plans and info on the various Type-XXIX (type-29) uboots. I have been shown some plans for the XXIX-H but they are so advanced I am looking for collaborating evidence.

 

[Jemiba]

Gröner lists 12 projects (A, B, B2, C, D, F, GK, H, K1 - 4) as "Studienentwürfe" (concepts) with different displacements
from 681 to 1060 ts (surfaced), conventional propulsion systems (Diesel and batteries) and the K-variants with Diesel
circulation systems and armament from 6 to 12 tubes. Only drawing given is the H variant.
Just send a PM, if you are interested in that data.

 

[covert_shores]

Thanks! Sent.

 

[covert_shores]

illustration of this intriguing boat:

I think that only the Type-XXI can compare when it comes to future-influencing designs. Completely different to the Walter-AIP ideas, this must surely have been a design influence for the postwar Type-205/6 designs?

 

[observer144]

I'm not a naval engineer, but those control surfaces look far too small. I cannot see the horizontal tail size, but the vertical does not seem like enough surface area to control a boat with a sail that large. Again, just an opinion from a non-engineer.

 

[Avimimus]

I assumed some type of h-tail from the picture... but that is just a guess by my mind trying to address exactly what you are seeing

 

[covert_shores]

Yes it looks small to me also. It is drawn from the plans so consider it accurate.

It's an 'H' shape as Avimimus suggests. The single screw is in the middle between the verticals. The horizontal surface is platypus-like with the moving hydroplane behind the screw.

These boats would have been quite slow by modern standards so probably more as a rudder than a stabilizer. Rudders only started getting *really* big in 1950s(?). The closest equiv is postwar Type-205 which also has quite small rudders -might be possible to calculate a comparison from plans.

My hunch is that if they built it they'd have tweaked things like that.

 

[Wurger]

Hello H,

excellent rendering of the Type XXIX. I am away from my sources (Rössler primarily) so I cannot help you `till next weekend.

Meanwhile, have you done anything on the midget submarine "Hecht"? It was proposed to have a detachable "kampfschwimmerkopf", equiped with breathing gear, room for two swimmers seated side by side, intended for raiding enemy harbours, with provision for inflatable boats, as well as military equipment conditioned on rubber bags.

EDIT: Posts about the Hecht were moved and merged to form this thread about German midget subs:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4672.msg306400.html#msg306400

 

[huckebein]

I have been working on a 3d model of this boat for some time.
I always interpreted the rear end as having a cort nozzle.
I guess this was wishful thinking.
This simplifies things a bit.

 

[covert_shores]

Fantastic, looking forward to seeing it.

 

[gantu]

Yes for me also there should be an cort nozzle.

 

[gantu]

So far so good still have to work on the rear part ?!

 

[covert_shores]

Great

I think that the chines along the sides were slightly less blended but I could be wrong. It was a single hull design with the chines attached to the hull only covering part of the hull. Same for the bow casing.

I don't think that it had a kort nozzle. Instead it had an H-form tail with four very small looking rudders. At least that's how I read the plans.

 

[Aeroengineer1]

Out of interest, would you be able to post a scan of the stern area just to see Kort vs Rudders?

 

[huckebein]

I agree with Covertshores assessment of the chines and front casing. The front casing is really just sort of stuck on, reminding me of the type 206.
What bothers me is resolving the obvious slope to stern of the chines. Groener's drawing seems a little loose (granted they are only for illustrative purposes). Assuming level chines based on the stern it puts the chine somewhere around the lower torpedo tube doors at the bow casing.
This then totally contradicts the first cross section, and subsequent profiles.
I am trying to mimic the execution of the strakes as in the V-80.

 

[covert_shores]

Agree that it looks like a kort nozzle in the side profile at first glance but:
a) not so in plan view
b) note the vertical lines showing that the front is fixed and back is a moving rudder - not so if kort
c) if it was a kort nozzle then where are the rudders????

 

[covert_shores]

I agree with Covertshores assessment of the chines and front casing. The front casing is really just sort of stuck on, reminding me of the type 206.
What bothers me is resolving the obvious slope to stern of the chines. Groener's drawing seems a little loose (granted they are only for illustrative purposes). Assuming level chines based on the stern it puts the chine somewhere around the lower torpedo tube doors at the bow casing.
This then totally contradicts the first cross section, and subsequent profiles.
I am trying to mimic the execution of the strakes as in the V-80.

agreed on all points - i was also uncomfortable with the sloping chines but drew my illustration that way per Groener / Rösslers books

 

[huckebein]

Work in progress!... so be kind.
I'm starting to lean toward kort nozzle/ring (like 206) with cruciform tail.
I think the dashed lines are the intersection of the ring with the strake/wing.
I plan to model both iterations.
For what it is worth I deviated from Groener & Roessler profiles and Gantu's excellent work and basically free handed it.
This is a rough draft to experiment with techniques.

 

[huckebein]

There are obvious issues I will resolve. Blending the rear of the strake is something of a challenge.

 

[gantu]

Ok guy´s this boat did not had had a kort nozzle rather an H rudder set.

 

[huckebein]

Ok then, these two boats (Typ 202) had BOTH a Kort nozzle and a H-set.

 

[gantu]

This Stealth Strak should be like this ?

 

[huckebein]

Ok, I will redo the lines.

 

[covert_shores]

Huckebein, gantu,
How are the models coming along. My cutaway illustration is making progress so planning an article on Covert Shores (www.hisutton.com). Might be of interest to some journalists too. So thinking that it'd be cool to showcase your models also.

 

[covert_shores]

WIP

 

[huckebein]

Wow!!

Really nice work!!

 

[huckebein]

Here is my work in progress.
Needs a lot of work.

 

[huckebein]

Wish I had more time......

 

[huckebein]

I'll see what I can come up with this week.

 

[covert_shores]

Wow I didn't realize yours was going to be a physical model as well. What methods are you using?

 

[covert_shores]

The illustration is coming along but unclear on some internal features. Have guesses but looking for second opinions. Anyone want to opine on the labeled rooms/objects in the attached?

 

[covert_shores]

I got sone very helpful advise from someone much more knowledgable than myself, and it seems that A and B are most likely the sonar shack and radio room. I thought that they were too large and that one might be the wardroom but seems I am mistaken. Second opinions welcome.

 

[gantu]

Hi maybe this could help looks like to me:

 

[covert_shores]

Thanks. Yes, helpful. I think that 'I' is an electrical cabinet but it isn't so obvious in the plan.

 

[gantu]

Could be Controls for the electrical engines ? The photo is fron an type XXI.

 

[covert_shores]

Ah, yes, that seems more sthan probable.

 

[covert_shores]

Initial article up at http://www.hisutton.com/Uboat_XXIXH.html

Cutaway:

 

[athpilot]

Fantastic! This is one of my favorite sub-projects. Keep up the great work!
Greetings
Athpilot

 

[covert_shores]

Great, thanks for the feedback. At some point o hope to add the models by others in this thread.

Shame that we don't know more about the other type-XXIX designs.

 

[CiTrus90]

Great article

By the way, work in progress...