UAP explanation: US anti gravity secret project?

[TsrJoe]

try this ... some fun bedtime reading

 

[sublight_]

The "UAP explanation" is likely good old fashion fraud...

https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/konablue-release1.pdf

Spooky Hustlers: How wacky UFO activists and "crazy" ghost hunters duped Congress into hunting UFOs​

View: https://youtu.be/a6Wud0LzFQY?si=n1T5cWkJa3jKEfAP

 

[Nik]

IIRC, part of the problem of trying to evaluate Tesla's middle and later work was that he became seriously paranoid about plagiarism. His drawings and other documentation would omit essential parts / detail, even include flagrant misdirection to thwart potential theft. After the disputes with Edison, I'm not really surprised. Snag was he seems to have convinced himself that he, and only he was the authority on many technical matters...
And, after that, the only way was down, into raving petulance or worse...
Sad, really...

 

[publiusr]

The Amazing Discoveries produced by the like of Galileo and Newton are now the sort of things we see demonstrated by lazy kids at science fairs.

Sadly, if there was anything to antigravity, you would have expected a member of the powdered wig crowd to find it…then too, they didn’t have the power to do this either:

Diamagnetic Levitation

Diamagnetic Levitation

www.ru.nl

Part of me wonders if:

a.) the frog got cancer and died, and-
b.) they fed it a bite of metal to get it to work

That kind of levitation is probably as good as we will ever get—though some in-roads have been made:

Magnetic levitation: New material offers potential for unlocking gravity-free technology

Researchers at the Quantum Machines Unit at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology (OIST) are studying levitating materials—substances that can remain suspended in a stable position without any physical contact or mechanical support.

phys.org

https://phys.org/news/2024-04-electrical-magnetism-electric-field-current.pdf

Good… now a rocket on a sled is a bit easier…but you still need the rocket.

Poor Tesla—Elon, with no money, it seems.

 

[publiusr]

This is odd:

https://phys.org/news/2024-12-particle-mass.html

Fire upwards?

 

[martinbayer]

This is odd:

https://phys.org/news/2024-12-particle-mass.html

Fire upwards?

Great - a fundamental particle with its mass being determined by an English-Irish pop boy band...

 

[Scott Kenny]

This is odd:

https://phys.org/news/2024-12-particle-mass.html

Fire upwards?

Once again, the sound of a discovery in science is "That's weird"

 

[publiusr]

I should know better than to keep my hopes up after the EM drive…

 

[Justo Miranda]

But if it is very easy, it is only necessary to cut a magnet in half and thus obtain two magnetic monopoles, anyone can do it in the garage of their house. I don't understand why it hasn't occurred to anyone before.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Great - a fundamental particle with its mass being determined by an English-Irish pop boy band...

Fire upwards means Schräge Musik

 

[Michel Van]

little excursion into experimental physic

1950s present German physician Burkhard Heim this theory of "Dynamische Kontrabarie"
In short Heim theorised that electromagnetic fields can be transformed into a Gravity-magnetic force
Heim made the mistake of presenting this as Idea for space drive, what German physicians not taken well.

in 1962 present Robert L. Forward a study for anti gravity machine, conforming partly Heim theory.
here a extrem compact mass has to rotate extrem fast in loop to produce a Gravity-magnetic force
However the mass has to have the density of White Dwarf matter, what rotate near the speed of light !

What Podkletnov in 1990s, partly conforming with experiments with rotating superconductors.

 

[Michel Van]

About this graphic
it show a Photoshop amalgam of several sources
The Disk craft is from UFO book A Lifting of the Veil by Betty Andreasson
who claims to be abduction by Aliens over the years
some one pasted force lines, vage text and Skunkworks logo to it
to make it more legit...

Left fake --------------------------------------------------------- Right Illustration form book A Lifting of the Veil

 

[publiusr]

I always thought gravity was most closely related to the strong nuclear force if anything.

Electrogravitics main flaw is that—if it were a thing—we’d see cows float in an electrical storm.

 

[Michel Van]

I always thought gravity was most closely related to the strong nuclear force if anything.

Electrogravitics main flaw is that—if it were a thing—we’d see cows float in an electrical storm.

Gravity is weakest form of 4 forces
next Electromagnetism follow by weak nuclear force and strong nuclear force.

several Supersymmetry theories proposed that in begin of Universe was one force.
but increase volume and lowering of energy density of universe this one force fall apart,
first in two: nuclear force and "Electrogravitics".
and later those two separated also into: Strong and weak nuclear force, other side into Electromagnetism and Gravity.

 

[Justo Miranda]

little excursion into experimental physic

1950s present German physician Burhard Heim this theory of "Dynamische Kontrabarie"
In short Heim theorised that electromagnetic fields can be transformed into a Gravity-magnetic force
Heim made the mistake of presenting this as Idea for space drive, what German physicians not taken well.

in 1962 present Robert L. Forward a study for anti gravity machine, conforming partly Heim theory.
here a extrem compact mass has to rotate extrem fast in loop to produce a Gravity-magnetic force
However the mass has to have the density of White Dwarf matter, what rotate near the speed of light !

What Podkletnov in 1990s, partly conforming with experiments with rotating superconductors.

Ganymean electromagnetic drive

 

[Justo Miranda]

Cavorite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Justo Miranda]

If supersymmetry exists, there should also be anti-photons faster than light and anti-gravitons capable of repelling masses.

To build an antigravitational motor, it is first necessary to prove the existence of graviton, then to study its physical and electromagnetic properties (if it has any) and then to try to reproduce the anti-graviton using reverse engineering techniques.

This hypothetical engine could work to take off from the surface of a planet by directing a beam of energy downwards, once free of planetary gravity it would be possible to fly interstellar by directing the beam towards the central star of the system and then advance in any direction by directing the beam towards all the masses located behind the spacecraft. There will always be a star to lean on, except at the outer edge of the Galaxy.

Gravity is always causing us problems but you never find a graviton when you need it, they are very cunning guys.

USS Cyclops - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Andreas Parsch]

I have a university degree in physics, and much of what I read here makes me cringe ...

Great - a fundamental particle with its mass being determined by an English-Irish pop boy band...

The paper is about quasi-particles. That's not "fundamental particles" (like quarks, electrons etc.)

I always thought gravity was most closely related to the strong nuclear force if anything.

It's not.

1950s present German physician Burhard Heim this theory of "Dynamische Kontrabarie"
In short Heim theorised that electromagnetic fields can be transformed into a Gravity-magnetic force
Heim made the mistake of presenting this as Idea for space drive, what German physicians not taken well.

in 1962 present Robert L. Forward a study for anti gravity machine, conforming partly Heim theory.
here a extrem compact mass has to rotate extrem fast in loop to produce a Gravity-magnetic force
However the mass has to have the density of White Dwarf matter, what rotate near the speed of light !

What Podkletnov in 1990s, partly conforming with experiments with rotating superconductors.

Heim's ideas never worked out, and never played any serious role in theoretical physics.

I hadn't heard about Forward, but a quick read-up shows that one of his areas of research was General Relativity, and possible physical consequences of its mathematical "oddities". Which includes the "anti-gravitation" effects of negative mass/energy density. Nothing out of the ordinary, and also hopelessly impractical for concrete applications, because negative energy density on an appreciable scale doesn't exist.

Podkletnov's experiments are highly controversial, to say the least. The vast majority of physicists does not believe that he coupled electromagnetics and gravity in any way.

If supersymmetry exists, there should also be anti-photons faster than light and anti-gravitons capable of repelling masses.

What?! No! Anti-photons are just photons (they are their own anti-particle), a fact which has nothing to do with super-symmetry. If you mean the hypothetical photino of supersymmetry theories, this would still not travel faster than light. Finally, super-symmetry doesn't say anything about gravity, let alone "anti-gravitons" which repel masses.

To build an antigravitational motor, it is first necessary to prove the existence of graviton, then to study its physical and electromagnetic properties (if it has any) and then to try to reproduce the anti-graviton using reverse engineering techniques.

This hypothetical engine could work to take off from the surface of a planet by directing a beam of energy downwards, once free of planetary gravity it would be possible to fly interstellar by directing the beam towards the central star of the system and then advance in any direction by directing the beam towards all the masses located behind the spacecraft. There will always be a star to lean on, except at the outer edge of the Galaxy.

Ok ... you got me. You're just trolling here, aren't you ?

 

[Michel Van]

Heim's ideas never worked out, and never played any serious role in theoretical physics.

Burkhard Heim hat it not easy
almost killed in 1944 during Lab explosion, leaving him without hands, cripple hearing and sight.
Despite handicapt he manage to get degree in Physics in 1950. sadly he not get a doctorate.
reason his professor supervision (docent) died and his Article about "Dynamische Kontrabarie" as reaction less drive.
This Media hype hurt his reputation under fellow german physicist, even to point they threaten him as outcast.
Heim who not care got job at MBB were he could work on theoretic Physic.

Sadly do reaction of fellow physicist in 1950s he became sort lone wolf of Physic, with allot time to think...
He developed his own vocabulary of new things he study under his theories, what make reading his work extrem difficult !
Also he could not test his theories in experiments do financial refusal by Ministry of Research, do his reputation from 1950s.
End 1960s begin 1970s Heim develop a theory about Gravity and Mass that combines relativity and Quantum Physic.
in 1980s the CERN in Hamburg study Heim proposal with computer to determine the mass of elementary particles
Here they convert his 200 pages of equation into program.
The result ?
Heim could determine the mass of elementary particles up to four decimal places.
also show result a new elementary particle: with mass of Electron, but neutral charge, only interacts with gravity.
Sounds that not like dark matter ?
But this was only publish in german language in little circle of open minded physicist and not publish in major papers like NATURE

Today Heims work fell victim of Esoteric's and UFO believer to sell there products or books...

 

[publiusr]

I have a university degree in physics, and much of what I read here makes me cringe ...

I am glad you are here-- let me ask a question.

Earth's Trojans have some difficult inclinations.
You cannot "turn" in space because you are mostly coasting

In a recent article from THE SPACE REVIEW, there was talk about artificial gravity with a spent tank on a tether as a counterweight.

Now such a bold can spin in any direction it likes.

As rockets get larger--might it be possible to spin a bola like package such that a probe can be slung towards an object of interest?

The spent tankage is flung away from an astronomical body.

Might this allow probes to reach targets in inclinations not reachable with a more direct approach?

 

[Andreas Parsch]

Sadly do reaction of fellow physicist in 1950s he became sort lone wolf of Physic, with allot time to think...
He developed his own vocabulary of new things he study under his theories, what make reading his work extrem difficult !
Also he could not test his theories in experiments do financial refusal by Ministry of Research, do his reputation from 1950s.
End 1960s begin 1970s Heim develop a theory about Gravity and Mass that combines relativity and Quantum Physic.
in 1980s the CERN in Hamburg study Heim proposal with computer to determine the mass of elementary particles
Here they convert his 200 pages of equation into program.
The result ?
Heim could determine the mass of elementary particles up to four decimal places.
also show result a new elementary particle: with mass of Electron, but neutral charge, only interacts with gravity.
Sounds that not like dark matter ?
But this was only publish in german language in little circle of open minded physicist and not publish in major papers like NATURE

Yes, that's the story.

And sorry to say, but this story includes just about every red flag indicating a "crackpot theory": Lone wolf "genius", no publications in any renowned international journals, ignored by the "mainstream", "discoveries" which, if true, would easily win at least one Nobel Prize.

 

[Andreas Parsch]

Earth's Trojans have some difficult inclinations.

Are you sure you don't confuse something here. "Trojans" orbit in the vicinity of L4 and L5 Lagrange points of their "home planet", so any Earth Trojans (I just looked into Wiki, and they say there are currently 2 of them) orbit near the Ecliptic, i.e. at inclinations close to 0. Sending a probe there shouldn't be too hard in principle.

In a recent article from THE SPACE REVIEW, there was talk about artificial gravity with a spent tank on a tether as a counterweight.

Now such a bold can spin in any direction it likes.

As rockets get larger--might it be possible to spin a bola like package such that a probe can be slung towards an object of interest?

The spent tankage is flung away from an astronomical body.

Might this allow probes to reach targets in inclinations not reachable with a more direct approach?

That sounds awfully complicated and impractical to me (but I'm not an engineer). To send probes on highly off-ecliptic inclinations in the inner solar system, swing-by maneuvers on planets (mainly Venus and Earth) seem to do just fine. Mostly because you get lots of delta-v for free.

 

[publiusr]

It took a long time for Rosetta to match its target...Deep Impact was more of a straight shot being a fly-by.

There is always an oddball that can come in from a hyperbolic orbit

I don't know how doable this is, but I could see a probe launched more directly towards an object speeding towards it--but back spinning a cube-sat type probe such that the relative velocity matches a bit better.

 

[Justo Miranda]

I have a university degree in physics, and much of what I read here makes me cringe ...


The paper is about quasi-particles. That's not "fundamental particles" (like quarks, electrons etc.)


It's not.


Heim's ideas never worked out, and never played any serious role in theoretical physics.

I hadn't heard about Forward, but a quick read-up shows that one of his areas of research was General Relativity, and possible physical consequences of its mathematical "oddities". Which includes the "anti-gravitation" effects of negative mass/energy density. Nothing out of the ordinary, and also hopelessly impractical for concrete applications, because negative energy density on an appreciable scale doesn't exist.

Podkletnov's experiments are highly controversial, to say the least. The vast majority of physicists does not believe that he coupled electromagnetics and gravity in any way.


What?! No! Anti-photons are just photons (they are their own anti-particle), a fact which has nothing to do with super-symmetry. If you mean the hypothetical photino of supersymmetry theories, this would still not travel faster than light. Finally, super-symmetry doesn't say anything about gravity, let alone "anti-gravitons" which repel masses.


Ok ... you got me. You're just trolling here, aren't you ?

I was referring to a kind of mirror symmetry in which photons that are (theoretically) on the other side of the mirror could only move at speeds greater than the speed of light. I've read about some theoretical particles called Tachyons that are supposed to do just that.

Tachyon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Justo Miranda]

I was referring to a kind of mirror symmetry in which photons that are (theoretically) on the other side of the mirror could only move at speeds greater than the speed of light. I've read about some theoretical particles called Tachyons that are supposed to do just that.

Tachyon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ok ... you got me. You're just trolling here, aren't you



I was speculating about the possible practical use of an anti-grav motor. Regardless of the physics and technology involved in its construction, if such a motor ever exists, it must be used as I have indicated, unless that motor acts as a teletransporter, which would be even more fantastic.

 

[Andreas Parsch]

I was referring to a kind of mirror symmetry in which photons that are (theoretically) on the other side of the mirror could only move at speeds greater than the speed of light. I've read about some theoretical particles called Tachyons that are supposed to do just that.

Tachyon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You used terms like "supersymmetry" and "anti-photon", which both have a specific meaning in physics. Using such terms, when you mean something completely different, is not helpful.

Anyway, regarding the tachyons you switched to ... here's a quote from the Wiki article:

Physicists believe that faster-than-light particles cannot exist because they are inconsistent with the known laws of physics.[1][2]

(Emphasis by me)

 

[Michel Van]

Some note on Tachyons and Faster Than Light Travel (FTL)

Einstein and Lorentz explain that unter the Theory of Relativity, you can't reach the speed of light or go faster.
once a mass accelerate towards the speed of light, it mass increase so much it can't accelerate more to Speed of light.
Light is photon that has no mass therefore it move so fast

Now the Tachyon is part of theoretical physics, first mention by physicist Arnold Sommerfeld in 1904 as "meta-particles"
later it got name tachyon by Gerald Feinberg in a 1967 paper titled "Possibility of faster-than-light particles"
Since there dispute about it's existence or how to prove a tachyon, with no results.

Since then several loophole are proposed for FTL
most popular is the Wormhole (aka Stargate) by John Archibald Wheeler.
The other is warp drive by theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre.
They not violate the Theory of Relativity, but need exotic matter to operate (like Forward anti gravity machine)

Even Burkhard Heim theories also proposed FLT in a awkward way
Here the visible Univers build on 6 dimensions with 3 space, 1 time and 2 information processing dimensions.
Now under 6 dimension the Theory of Relativity works differently (it's based on 4 dimension)
There not mass increase but decrease in volume on space craft during accelerate towards the speed of light.
as past the speed of light, it becomes "information package" in in higher information processing dimension.

To be honest this last one sound more like the script to this movie:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlkEY-3CMI

 

[TomS]

later it got name tachyon by Gerald Feinberg in a 1967 paper titled "Possibility of faster-than-light particles"

Apropos of absolutely nothing, I was friends with Dr. Feinberg's son in high school. I had read about tachyon theory but had no idea that my friend's dad was so deeply involved in it until far too late.

 

[Justo Miranda]

You used terms like "supersymmetry" and "anti-photon", which both have a specific meaning in physics. Using such terms, when you mean something completely different, is not helpful.

Anyway, regarding the tachyons you switched to ... here's a quote from the Wiki article:

(Emphasis by me)

Not using the exact technical words is a privilege of amateurs and a constant source of concern for professionals. This little incident reminds me of the anecdote of the researcher who dedicated his whole life to studying Homer's work and finally concluded that Homer did not exist but another Greek with the same name. In my opinion, what matters is the philosophical concept, not the nomenclature.

 

[publiusr]

Derek Jacobi credits de Vere with Shakespeare--but I will call it the latter... stubborn like that.

 

[Nigelhg]

Point of Order!

Nik Tesla was demonstrating wireless transmission of electrical power across several miles. Enough power to light up an old school Edison light bulb, as long as it was touching the ground.

He couldn't transmit usable power over several miles.... that's made up.