Turkish Indigenous Helicopter Program
- Thread starter RavenOne
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RavenOne
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The design of the T925 Utility heli is going through a major redesign due to changing requirements among other reasons. They've also decided to pursue the development of the domestic TS-3000 turboshaft engine, which was previously given low priority.
But it's sad to see that they're no longer taking the Navy and the Coast Guard's urgent need of a long range, ramped helicopter.
View: https://x.com/Defence_Turk/status/1841843095383531662
It no longer looks like the lovechild of S-92 and AW-101, the new design looks like just an another Blackhawk copy
They were supposed to extend the licence production of T-70s and pass it through the Congress which was deemed impossible so they're copying the 40 year old Blackhawk design and calling it the new T925 instead 
alberchico
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It does seem like a design similar to the Blackhawk would better suited for the Army and Air Force's current operations over Syria and against the Kurds. But at some point in the future, Turkey will need a large long range ramped helicopter if they're serious about projecting seapower across the Mediterranean.
This heli has so far gone through 2 major redesigns (both in advanced stages)... That alone tells you a lot about what a project development nightmare this is...!
Ainen
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Independent engine again...
Real economy showing teeth. There are those who want to cut everything down and buy from abroad and strangely they are not in the Opposition. And what difference an independent engine will do? If America does not allow it, they are not going to sell it. Aviation sales do require a customer afterall. If America does not allow it, they are not going to be able even to donate things.
Not afraid of any independent engine anyhow.
Not afraid of any independent engine anyhow.
If you can handle the politics below, let me begin with remarking that lots of people in this country checked the top limit on their credit cards last night.
A tax of 750 liras per year for those cards that top 100K. As the "Defence Tax"... A brilliant beginning, because even if such cards are aplenty, they might not be available to the masses that vote for the Party. And the grumbling might be construed as treason. As usual in this country. Brother handles the financial affairs of the family house and he had a long time reading the list of the newly invented taxes.
Yeah, in case you haven't heard, Israel is going to attack us. We had a closed doors session in the Parliament about it. Despite the Israeli President issuing a public statement to the effect that it's not the case. Any of those river to river maps you might have seen around in regards to an expanded theocratic-extremist Israel still strictly follow the 1948 decisions that Tel Aviv would not provoke Ankara. Their claims are limited to Hatay, which would presumably be torn away with a revoking of the 1939 agreements and made part of Syria, to enable an invasion by Israel. This, of course, is in itself an argument that will not find support in this forum. That Israel is extremely expansionist.
Though for this to happen, they are supposed to cross Syria first. You would be right to think "we" are not losing any sleep over that.
There was an earthquake tax after 1999. It turned there was no money when a new earthquake happened and people expected State help on a large scale. Instead of set aside to be released in relief efforts as the law required, the funds had been used in highway construction. By companies which donated a lot for election propaganda. And the similar. While politics have no place in this forum, you will do better in understanding what's happening if you digest that.
Like the case of talks with interests in America that had done business in this country in previous times of high risk. There were not enough guarantees. Some post in this forum l will not link to would make much greater sense. That a second manned fighter aircraft should be started in this country and Taiwan should also further dilute its one single political advantage by cloning its chip manufacture abroad while similarly giving away know-how and money because apparently people believe Taiwan is going to be invaded one of these days. Cheeky? Pales when compared to the then future as considered and under foreign guarantees by 2010.
A social media outlet with some standing in the country had a post about how a round 100 billions would be nice. To start series production of all those prototypes widely followed in this forum. Nobody will be swayed to believe it would be the case. With the ongoing Roper Upheavals Kendall can't afford this country purchasing Typhoons with money raised in the US.
The Goverment would. Considering the Goverment owes the major European powers. With the apparent risks of helping the European immigrant issues through keeping more refugees here, it is only natural for the Goverment to find other ways. Hence the taxes. Hence the previously funny statement, or two.
even better they are going to have a new "peace with the Southeast" soon. If we can't fly our shiny Eurofighters over the Aegean and can't do a thing about the Nation State incubated to our South, and don't joke about anything against the gas providing Russians, we can surely keep the Muslim Brotherhood enclaves in Syria. Which is perfectly possible for even the F-4s to handle.
This forum must have reported Kendall wants to stay even with a Trump win. Still wanting to ride some sort of a tiger. It is indeed Trump's short attention span and desire for the path of least resistance that opened the way.
There might be an urgent need for translation perhaps. Everything you have seen in this forum about this non-stop avalanche of work from Turkey. Contrary to even their promoters' personal views (about shaking the tree while it lasts) everyone of them is "full" and within reason if so desired. If anyone wants "urgent solutions" involving foreign purchase or assistance or anything beyond their own promises they will have to follow the regular methods of finding funds. The German taxpayer will be proud to support exports afterall. Just like the British one.
In a previous post in this particular thread it is stated that the directors had to stop some work because the market would not support it. That's ... not the case. Goverments cuts funding but hides it for political PR work, puts any future blame in lower echelons. Real economy problems force to pick up the best value, which might soon be converted into least cost which might further deteriorate into nothing at all. With the "Peace" more helicopter casualties might be expected as well. Money will be needed to satisfy Europe, for starters.
I have noticed some celebrations already. Please do not commit too early, heartbreaks are aplenty in this line of thing. This will naturally come as surprising and perhaps a bit offensive. Let me give you something then. As a project that's a bit too impossible to realize:
Find a real Ewok and will provide immediately. It is politically possible to say this only if the sample size is seriously restricted but the Armenians have the bitter and unfortunate profound understanding of what's what and what's not.
Yeah, in case you haven't heard, Israel is going to attack us. We had a closed doors session in the Parliament about it. Despite the Israeli President issuing a public statement to the effect that it's not the case. Any of those river to river maps you might have seen around in regards to an expanded theocratic-extremist Israel still strictly follow the 1948 decisions that Tel Aviv would not provoke Ankara. Their claims are limited to Hatay, which would presumably be torn away with a revoking of the 1939 agreements and made part of Syria, to enable an invasion by Israel. This, of course, is in itself an argument that will not find support in this forum. That Israel is extremely expansionist.
Though for this to happen, they are supposed to cross Syria first. You would be right to think "we" are not losing any sleep over that.
There was an earthquake tax after 1999. It turned there was no money when a new earthquake happened and people expected State help on a large scale. Instead of set aside to be released in relief efforts as the law required, the funds had been used in highway construction. By companies which donated a lot for election propaganda. And the similar. While politics have no place in this forum, you will do better in understanding what's happening if you digest that.
Like the case of talks with interests in America that had done business in this country in previous times of high risk. There were not enough guarantees. Some post in this forum l will not link to would make much greater sense. That a second manned fighter aircraft should be started in this country and Taiwan should also further dilute its one single political advantage by cloning its chip manufacture abroad while similarly giving away know-how and money because apparently people believe Taiwan is going to be invaded one of these days. Cheeky? Pales when compared to the then future as considered and under foreign guarantees by 2010.
A social media outlet with some standing in the country had a post about how a round 100 billions would be nice. To start series production of all those prototypes widely followed in this forum. Nobody will be swayed to believe it would be the case. With the ongoing Roper Upheavals Kendall can't afford this country purchasing Typhoons with money raised in the US.
The Goverment would. Considering the Goverment owes the major European powers. With the apparent risks of helping the European immigrant issues through keeping more refugees here, it is only natural for the Goverment to find other ways. Hence the taxes. Hence the previously funny statement, or two.
even better they are going to have a new "peace with the Southeast" soon. If we can't fly our shiny Eurofighters over the Aegean and can't do a thing about the Nation State incubated to our South, and don't joke about anything against the gas providing Russians, we can surely keep the Muslim Brotherhood enclaves in Syria. Which is perfectly possible for even the F-4s to handle.
This forum must have reported Kendall wants to stay even with a Trump win. Still wanting to ride some sort of a tiger. It is indeed Trump's short attention span and desire for the path of least resistance that opened the way.
There might be an urgent need for translation perhaps. Everything you have seen in this forum about this non-stop avalanche of work from Turkey. Contrary to even their promoters' personal views (about shaking the tree while it lasts) everyone of them is "full" and within reason if so desired. If anyone wants "urgent solutions" involving foreign purchase or assistance or anything beyond their own promises they will have to follow the regular methods of finding funds. The German taxpayer will be proud to support exports afterall. Just like the British one.
In a previous post in this particular thread it is stated that the directors had to stop some work because the market would not support it. That's ... not the case. Goverments cuts funding but hides it for political PR work, puts any future blame in lower echelons. Real economy problems force to pick up the best value, which might soon be converted into least cost which might further deteriorate into nothing at all. With the "Peace" more helicopter casualties might be expected as well. Money will be needed to satisfy Europe, for starters.
I have noticed some celebrations already. Please do not commit too early, heartbreaks are aplenty in this line of thing. This will naturally come as surprising and perhaps a bit offensive. Let me give you something then. As a project that's a bit too impossible to realize:
Find a real Ewok and will provide immediately. It is politically possible to say this only if the sample size is seriously restricted but the Armenians have the bitter and unfortunate profound understanding of what's what and what's not.
Radonislav
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You must stop looking into things this deep. Not good for your mental health
On the scope of things. More on financial situation; might well define the post as political
The Finance Minister speaks. Was provided as the source on social media. Do not mind for the Sputnik header, it is in Turkish, given only to provide material for automatic translation in case you wouldn't want to trust mine.
https://anlatilaninotesi.com.tr/202...aclarinin-satisina-baslayacak-1089237162.html
"Before the Party came to power, 80% of the Defence acquisitions were imported from abroad. Today this ratio is reversed. We have 3500 companies in the Defence sector. We are going to build the Steel Dome and we are going to build a country wide air defence system. That's expensive. We have been spending money on a 5th generation airplane for a long time... An engine must be developed. There are more than a thousand projects going on. Money is needed."
The hawkeyed might notice the url is odd, promising to sell all those Benzes high ranking Goverment Officials daily use to commute. Which is a promise for either 10 or 20 years already.
You can already guess what Steel Dome is. Apparently it was some other Dome when first proposed and it is apparently a surprisingly old proposal but nobody will ever talk honestly on the internet anyhow.
It is claimed the allocation of funds set aside for Defence was changed in the beginning of this year. A set percentage from things like Lotto or Horse Racing would be collected and spent. A company has a practical monopoly in the field was reportedly given a tax break in return for the long lasting support and donations. Serial production in 10 or 100 projects should be costly enough anyhow.
Of the current costs in Defence industry which reportedly saw its budget increased 141% over last year's to reportedly 12,5 billion USD
48% personnel salaries and similar costs
6% social security
3% financial expenses
43% actual purchases
Crystal ball says a further design is to decrease the number of qualified/top salaried engineers and expensive workers. To fit in with the general trends.
https://anlatilaninotesi.com.tr/202...aclarinin-satisina-baslayacak-1089237162.html
"Before the Party came to power, 80% of the Defence acquisitions were imported from abroad. Today this ratio is reversed. We have 3500 companies in the Defence sector. We are going to build the Steel Dome and we are going to build a country wide air defence system. That's expensive. We have been spending money on a 5th generation airplane for a long time... An engine must be developed. There are more than a thousand projects going on. Money is needed."
The hawkeyed might notice the url is odd, promising to sell all those Benzes high ranking Goverment Officials daily use to commute. Which is a promise for either 10 or 20 years already.
You can already guess what Steel Dome is. Apparently it was some other Dome when first proposed and it is apparently a surprisingly old proposal but nobody will ever talk honestly on the internet anyhow.
It is claimed the allocation of funds set aside for Defence was changed in the beginning of this year. A set percentage from things like Lotto or Horse Racing would be collected and spent. A company has a practical monopoly in the field was reportedly given a tax break in return for the long lasting support and donations. Serial production in 10 or 100 projects should be costly enough anyhow.
Of the current costs in Defence industry which reportedly saw its budget increased 141% over last year's to reportedly 12,5 billion USD
48% personnel salaries and similar costs
6% social security
3% financial expenses
43% actual purchases
Crystal ball says a further design is to decrease the number of qualified/top salaried engineers and expensive workers. To fit in with the general trends.
This is not a political forum dude, everyone has their own opinions but stop posting political stuff under everything we post...
Combat-Master
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Nigerian pilots receiving training in Turkey; also final 2 airframes to be delivered to Nigeria completing 6 they've purchased.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o_IAxNcxs
Combat-Master
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When will we see T-129 with the AF-410 E/O ? Those AF-300T with second gen FLIR are becoming ancient!
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Radonislav
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They will be equipped with 410's when they enter a refit or let's say Phase 3
Combat-Master
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11 years in development, 1,500+ flight hours with 4 prototypes. 3x T626 Gokbey (6 ton class) helicopters have been inducted into Gendarmerie General Command service in ceremony conducted Today.
20 helicopters ordered thus far;
7 Land Forces
4 Airforce
3 Coastguard
3 Gendarmerie General Command (inducted)
3 General Directorate of Security
More than 100 T625 Gokbey helicopters to be ordered, set to replace aging UH-1 helicopters in service.
20 helicopters ordered thus far;
7 Land Forces
4 Airforce
3 Coastguard
3 Gendarmerie General Command (inducted)
3 General Directorate of Security
More than 100 T625 Gokbey helicopters to be ordered, set to replace aging UH-1 helicopters in service.
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Radonislav
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And 57 Navy
Combat-Master
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Navy wasn't mentioned at all during the speech President gave in the ceremony, where did you get that number?
Combat-Master
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With TEI TS1400 gas turbine to complete certification and test flights by 2027-2028, it would be..
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RavenOne
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Yep, Meteksan Defence is already developing the search radar and it's suite:
This won't be half assed stop-gap measure, they're going the full Seahawk route for Gökbey with the folding tail and everything:
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I haven't read any information regarding Navy wanting 57 6-ton class helicopters, yes they are fully interested in the 10-ton-class for obvious reasons, hence why TUSAS has ceased work on the heavy attack helicopter to push up the timeline for the 10-ton-class.
Where's the information coming from for the 57 Gokbey ?
Combat-Master
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AF-410 E/O in flight testing aboard T-129, integration to be completed this year.
With AF-410, not only will it offer enhanced detection, targeting and threat identification capabilities over AF-300T. A huge weight saving of around 38kg is also expected.
| Feature | AF-300T 
| AF-410 
|
|---|---|---|
| IR Camera | Gen2 (scanning array) Resolution: 1440x576 (LWIR) | Gen3 (staring array) Resolution: 1024x768 (MWIR) |
| Day TV Camera Resolution | 800 x 600 | 1920 x 1080 |
| SWIR Camera | Not available | Resolution: 640 x 512 |
| Laser Range Finder & Target Designator | Range: up to 20 km | Range: up to 30 km |
| Laser Pointer | Wavelength: NIR (NVG compatible) | Wavelength: NIR (NVG compatible) |
| SWIR Illuminator | Not available | NIR (Compatible with SWIR Camera) |
| Power Interface | 28 VDC | 28 VDC |
| Size - Turret Unit | Diameter: 534 mm, Height: 633 mm | Width: < 437 mm, Height: < 520 mm |
| Weight - Turret Unit | 95 kg | < 57 kg |
Gendarmerie T129 ATAK helicopters with AF-410 E/O during the T625 GÖKBEY delivery ceremony. Photo credit Abdullah Şentürk (M5 Magazine). BTW, the weight saving is actually more than 100kg. The total system weight of AF-300T is 118 kg. It also has a separate electronics unit (23kg) inside the nose of the helicopter. There are also ballasts inside the tail cone to counterbalance the AF-300T, which are not needed anymore.
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