Transall - Origins, Variants & Projects

[Caravellarella]

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an earlier description in French of the Transall C-161 as a short-range commercial turboprop freighter. It shows the degree of commonality with the standard Transall C-160 airlifter......

The article comes from the 15th March 1967 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Stargazer]

Smashing, Terry!! But you forgot to say something: « This is not "secret" but it is a "project"... » ;D ;D ;D

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Stéphane, I'm so inconsistent ;D. Here is a picture of the Transall C-161J as displayed and promoted by Nord Aviation at the Turin show in June 1968; I believe the smaller jet model displayed alongside is the original design for the Sud Nord SN.600 Corvette......

The picture comes from the 1st July 1968 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Jemiba]

... I believe the smaller jet model displayed alongside is the original design for the Sud Nord SN.600 Corvette......

I think so, too. In Aviation Week May 1968, there was a 3-view of it. The prototypes and
series aircraft had evenly allocated windows.

 

[Jemiba]

In another forum I read, that the wing of the Transall transport is prepared for fitting
auxiliary jet engines (e.g. Bristol Orpheus) to improve take-off and climbing performance.
But this isnatllation wasn never actually tested. Has anybody a source for that statement,
or even a drawing ?

 

[Sea Skimmer]

So like the C-123K? Interesting and logical enough.

Some random searching on the interweb turned up this page
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=144-pa1716_3-3&cid=1-6#1-6

Which lists a document titled as
'A New Proposal for the Orpheus with 5750lb Thrust-Boost for the Transall C160 Aircraft PA1716/5/15/13 December 1967'


It would seem someone would have to go in person to actually see it, but it sounds like proof enough that the idea is real.

 

[Jemiba]

Many thanks for this clue, indeed, that's a prove, I think. It's a pity, but during the next time, I think, I
won't be in Coventry ...

 

[hesham]

From Air International 4/1981,


the C-160ASF projected variant.

 

[Jemiba]

The C-160ASF was an armed version of the proposed C-160S for sea surveillance, fitted with a search radar,
several observation blisters and launching tubes for smoke and other buoys.
In the ASF a retractable radar under the fuselage and pylons for up to four AM 39 Exocet missiles or other
stores (e.g. homing torpedoes) would have been added.

 

[hesham]

Amazing work my dear Jens.

 

[toura]

Hi all
From an old "Interavia"

 

[toura]

From the same paper

 

[hesham]

Great find my dear Toura.

 

[hesham]

From Flugzeug 01-1990,


was this an amblance version ?.

 

[toura]

Hi Hesham
From "le fana de l aviation"
humanitarian mission

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears Toura and Jemiba.

 

[Kiltonge]

Not really a 'version' as such but Air Forces of the World ( Peerage Books, 1979 ) notes that Togo had been negotiating for a single C-160 in 1976 1975 but the deal fell-through.

Instead Togo bought a pair of DHC-5s originally built for Zaïre / DRC.

Edit: obligatory Flight link

and the possible acquisition of five
Magisters, one Puma and a C.160
Transall has been reported if
negotiations with France are
successful.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1975/1975%20-%201690.html

 

[Kiltonge]

This was new to me, a civil operator of a first-batch ( not NG ) Transall. Air Affaires Gabon.

Presumably a straight freighter version rather than configured for pax?

Head Office: BP3962, Libreville, Gabon.
Fleet: t h r e e Fairchild F-27A, one
Transall C-160, one Twin Otter, two King
Air, four Queen Air, seven Baron, two
Bonanza, one Sundowner.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1978/1978%20-%200629.html


Reg was TR-LWE

 

[Jemiba]

If used for pax, then certainly only jury rigged. Here http://www.airlineupdate.com/content_public/airlines/airlines-gabon/airaffaires.htm
it's mentioned as C-160G, but as the G is the eRecce Gabriel, that's quite probably wrong, I think.

 

[Kiltonge]

Cheers Jemiba!

Found this in 1977 Flight:

The third German prototype was sold to Compagnie Air Affaires of Gabon

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1977/1977%20-%203510.html

 

[Jemiba]

Then, with regards to my sources, it probably was a "C 160", without any suffix, as that was
the designation of the three prototypes. "V1" to "V3" seems not to have been used in
direct conjunction with the types designation.

 

[hesham]

The C-161;

C160 Transall de 1967 a nos jours

 

[Arjen]

That's a Renault 16 on the ramp B)

 

[Eirigi]

.

 

[riggerrob]

How much weight does an inflight-openable ramp add?

That 161 reminds me of the Bristol Freighter and Carvair conversions of DC-4s for ferrying automobiles across the English Channel.
Nose or tail ramp makes little difference when you are ferrying cars of cargo containers from one airport to the next.
But a tail ramp vastly speeds unloading at rough fields: drive off, LAPES of even high-altitude para-drops.
Tail ramps increase in importance for military and disaster relief missions.

An automated loading trailer would speed turn-around times. Quick turn-around times are far more important (for short-haul) than cruise speed. Jet engines are only valuable for high-speed cruise (e.g. More than 400
knots). Which leaves me wondering why they proposed jet engines - with straight wings????

 

[Petrus]

Here are the proposals of HFB and Weser Flugzeugbau, basically the same aircraft,
HFB was responsible for the 4-engined AT 180 and Weserflugzeugbau for the
twin engined AT 150
(Drawings from "Bilder-Chronik HFB, 1955-69")

Btw do you any info on engines to be used in both the German projects?
Piotr

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1968,

a Model for it.

 

[kaiserbill]

Are there hard dates for when the maritime ASF and S versions date from?
There is a drawing earlier in this thread from 1981, but this is later in the C-160's career.
I would have thought the maritime versions were looked at earlier?
Interesting idea... same powerplant and similar dimensions and performance to the Atlantic MPA, and within a few years of each other.
Granted, the Atlantic had an internal weapons bay...but still...
I always wondered about that...far more Transalls were made than the Atlantic.
I always thought the Transall would have been a fine MPA.

 

[Apophenia]

Btw do you any info on engines to be used in both the German projects?

A very late response to a good question. AFAIK, the Tyne didn't enter the equation until 1959-1960. But these Weserflug studies date back to early 1958. Most likely, like the rival HFB P.311, the AT 150 and AT 180 were Allison T56-powered.

This is probably self-evident but the study designations were for wing area - ie: Arbeitsgemeinschaft Transporter 150 m² and Arbeitsgemeinschaft Transporter 180 m².

 

[Jemiba]

Had a look into my files, but I was as sloppy, as uual. But the C 160S and ASF were described in the N° 240 issue of the "Flaps" magazine,
but there's no date on the two pages. But it's in Spanish, so I think, perhaps Antonio can help ?

 

[Antonio]

Had a look into my files, but I was as sloppy, as uual. But the C 160S and ASF were described in the N° 240 issue of the "Flaps" magazine,
but there's no date on the two pages. But it's in Spanish, so I think, perhaps Antonio can help ?

Could you please show me the pages?

 

[Jemiba]

Of course !

 

[Antonio]

Thanks Jens,

Year publication is 1980 (Probably January)

Flaps Valladolid Rello 240 - AbeBooks

FLAPS. AERONAUTICA, ASTRONAUTICA, AEROMODELISMO. Nº 240. by VV.AA. and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now at AbeBooks.com.

www.abebooks.com

 

[kaiserbill]

Thanks for the dates.
So the design proposal is probably very late 70's then.

 

[fightingirish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1277211425174433793

Original sources in German:
Interavia 4/1967 p.460f
Interavia 12/1967 p.1840
Edit: Attached pictures.

 

[bechar06]

I read at French Secret Projects Vol 2, from JC Carbonel, that
the Transall was "originally a four engined aircraft...powered by 4 RR Dart turboprops"
Is there any diagram of this early project ?

 

[Rich1974]

What upgrades were on the super transall 90? I’m guessing glass cockpit new engines?

 

[snne]

Images of the landing moment of the plane flying low over the city after a malfunction in Kayseri have emerged.

It is seen that the C160 type aircraft, with smoke coming out of its tires after landing, could not stop on the runway and landed on the dirt ground.

https://x.com/muratherdemm/status/1750454106261483781?s=20
https://x.com/gurselkursunat1/status/1750433707746357647?s=20
https://x.com/Ttltlg/status/1750457516746572045?s=20

 

[Antonio]

snne, I'm missing something because I can't see relationship between "C160 troubled flying" with the tittle of the thread...

 

[TsrJoe]

http://www.aviationancestry.co.uk/?searchQuery=Transall...