The F-35 No Holds Barred topic

[Triton]

Published on Feb 16, 2014

Lockheed Martin's chief F-35 test pilot Alan Norman takes 60 Minutes into the cockpit of an F-35 for a first-hand look.

http://youtu.be/-ye9auxJPVg

 

[sferrin]

Don't you have any curiosity at all in what 60 Minutes is going to say? The preview didn't seem to veer to the sensationalist.

Did you watch the video I posted?

Yes. It says nowt about the contents of 60 Minutes.

Sure you did. :

 

[sferrin]

Published on Feb 16, 2014

David Martin speaks with Frank Kendall, the Pentagon's chief weapons buyer, about the problem-plagued F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program. What happened and is the program back on track?

http://youtu.be/yp0pCqbiMLg

The interviewer seems to have color-coordinated his shirt with his hair. "We had some problems so we made some changes." *YAWN* How is this different than any other defense program? (Queue, "ZOMG most expensive evah!")

 

[Radical]

Having watched the actual broadcast, I'm glad that they at least didn't interview anyone from POGO or APA. It was just Lt. Gen Bogdan, Al Norman, Frank Kendall, and this USMC general.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/f-35-joint-strike-fighter-60-minutes/

 

[sferrin]

Having watched the actual broadcast, I'm glad that they at least didn't interview anyone from POGO or APA. It was just Lt. Gen Bogdan, Al Norman, Frank Kendall, and this USMC general.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/f-35-joint-strike-fighter-60-minutes/

I'll wait 'til it gets posted to youtube then check it out. Maybe they attempted to be objective after all.

 

[Triton]

Published on Feb 16, 2014

Seven years behind schedule and $163 billion over budget, David Martin gets an inside look at what makes the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter the most expensive weapons system in history.

http://youtu.be/FrqSYWfPwww

 

[Triton]

See! No appearance by Pierre Sprey, Winslow Wheeler, or Dr. Carlo Kopp in the 60 Minutes story. No assertion that the F-35 “can't turn, can't climb, can't run”. I would dare say a mostly positive progress report on the F-35. The F-35 program went off the rails and Lt. General Chris Bogdan brought the program back on track.

David Martin: Has the F-35 program passed the point of no return?

Chris Bogdan: I don’t see any scenario where we’re walking back away from this program.

David Martin: So the American taxpayer is going to buy this airplane?

Chris Bogdan: I would tell you we’re going to buy a lot of these airplanes.

Source:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/f-35-joint-strike-fighter-60-minutes/

 

[LowObservable]

Fortunately we have already been told by the authorities here that 60 Minutes is not to be trusted. Now watch them try to kick the Derp-O-Matic into reverse...

 

[bobbymike]

Fortunately we have already been told by the authorities here that 60 Minutes is not to be trusted. Now watch them try to kick the Derp-O-Matic into reverse...

LO raises his head with his highly accurate 20/20 hindsight meter

There is a history of slanted, biased reporting by 60 Minutes. One apparently objective report does not change that and I stand by my statements.

If they did a good story/report great, fantastic I applaud them.

So now that 60 Minutes has reported - I am using the previous posts for information - that the program is back on track END OF STORY about the F-35 let's all get on the bandwagon they are buying many, many aircraft, RIGHT!

 

[Abraham Gubler]

LO raises his head with his highly accurate 20/20 hindsight meter

From the people who gave the world Mr Derp, there is also Captain Hindsight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esXJN_OTkmU

 

[Arjen]

Double derp.

 

[LowObservable]

Sorry, B-M and Abe - can you point to where I predicted a media larruping out of 60 Minutes? Or where any of the fans here withheld pre-judgment?

Triton got it right. You didn't. Next!

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Sorry, B-M and Abe - can you point to where I predicted a media larruping out of 60 Minutes? Or where any of the fans here withheld pre-judgment?

Triton got it right. You didn't. Next!

I don't care about any of that nor did I express any opinion about the 60 Minutes story before or after it aired. I just like quoting South Park. Especially since they invented Mr Derp and you've been making a big deal of that word. It might be the latest piece of lingo popular amongst the anti F-35 mob, which always peculiarly has some bizarre shared terminology, but to me Mr Derp was just an intentionally patently hollow replacement for Chef. Derp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQDAjyehMhc

 

[Arjen]

Did you watch the video I posted?

Yes. It says nowt about the contents of 60 Minutes.

Sure you did. :

Well, I did. It took nearly an hour. I could have done something useful with my time, but there you have it.

 

[sferrin]

Published on Feb 16, 2014

Seven years behind schedule and $163 billion over budget, David Martin gets an inside look at what makes the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter the most expensive weapons system in history.

"$163 billion over budget, David Martin gets an inside look at what makes the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter the most expensive weapons system in history"

Lemme guess. If you say it's going to cost $40 trillion over the next 150 years it comes out $163 billion over budget? :

 

[sferrin]

Sorry, B-M and Abe - can you point to where I predicted a media larruping out of 60 Minutes? Or where any of the fans here withheld pre-judgment?

Triton got it right. You didn't. Next!

Hey Bill, still waiting for pics of your Super Eurocanards doing some controlled flying at negative angles of attack. You gonna pony up or keep babbling about flying whale blubber?

 

[sferrin]

Did you watch the video I posted?

Yes. It says nowt about the contents of 60 Minutes.

Sure you did. :

Well, I did. It took nearly an hour. I could have done something useful with my time, but there you have it.

Heh, leave it to you to call educating yourself re. the F-35 "not useful". ;D

 

[Arjen]

Heh, leave it to you to call educating yourself re. the F-35 "not useful". ;D

There you go, you were trying to educate where it looked like you were just being snide It's a cruel world.
So what did your little clip tell the world about the contents of 60 Minutes?

 

[sferrin]

Heh, leave it to you to call educating yourself re. the F-35 "not useful". ;D

There you go, you were trying to educate where it looked like you were just being snide It's a cruel world.
So what did your little clip tell the world about the contents of 60 Minutes?

Why would you think it would contain anything about 60 minutes?

 

[LowObservable]

For the record, Mr Ferrin, I never said anything about inverted high-alpha flight, but maybe you have a theory about why that maneuver is tactically relevant?

 

[sferrin]

For the record, Mr Ferrin, I never said anything about inverted high-alpha flight, but maybe you have a theory about why that maneuver is tactically relevant?

LOL If "a hundred tons of flying blubber" can do it but your Eurocanards can't what does that say about them?

 

[Arjen]

Why would you think it would contain anything about 60 minutes?

Because of this.

Don't you have any curiosity at all in what 60 Minutes is going to say? The preview didn't seem to veer to the sensationalist.

Did you watch the video I posted?

You asked me whether I had watched your video. A question you appeared to pose in reaction to me asking bobbymike if he had any curiosity towards the content of the announced 60 Minutes episode.

Your question can be interpreted in two ways, either as:
1) an oblique way of saying I don't like to watch stuff that doesn't fit with my view of F-35 development
2) an equally oblique way of saying that watching your little clip would make me understand why you thought watching 60 Minutes would be a waste of time

As to 1): this would point to a prejudice on your part on what I will and will not watch. I did watch your clip, because I thought it might provide some new insights to me. It didn't.

I was in a charitable mood, so I decided 2) was the case.

As to 2): the clip explained nothing about why watching 60 Minutes would be a waste of time.

 

[AeroFranz]

For the record, Mr Ferrin, I never said anything about inverted high-alpha flight, but maybe you have a theory about why that maneuver is tactically relevant?

LOL If "a hundred tons of flying blubber" can do it but your Eurocanards can't what does that say about them?

That they don't do useless maneuvers?

 

[sferrin]

For the record, Mr Ferrin, I never said anything about inverted high-alpha flight, but maybe you have a theory about why that maneuver is tactically relevant?

LOL If "a hundred tons of flying blubber" can do it but your Eurocanards can't what does that say about them?

That they don't do useless maneuvers?

When did controlability become useless?

 

[sferrin]

Why would you think it would contain anything about 60 minutes?

Because of this.

Don't you have any curiosity at all in what 60 Minutes is going to say? The preview didn't seem to veer to the sensationalist.

Did you watch the video I posted?

You asked me whether I had watched your video. A question you appeared to pose in reaction to me asking bobbymike if he had any curiosity towards the content of the announced 60 Minutes episode.

Your question can be interpreted in two ways, either as:
1) an oblique way of saying I don't like to watch stuff that doesn't fit with my view of F-35 development
2) an equally oblique way of saying that watching your little clip would make me understand why you thought watching 60 Minutes would be a waste of time

As to 1): this would point to a prejudice on your part on what I will and will not watch. I did watch your clip, because I thought it might provide some new insights to me. It didn't.

I was in a charitable mood, so I decided 2) was the case.

As to 2): the clip explained nothing about why watching 60 Minutes would be a waste of time.

Your "interpretation" says a lot about you.

 

[Arjen]

I try to think the best of people. In your case, that seems to be inappropriate.

 

[LowObservable]

So what is demonstrated by flying at high-alpha inverted that is not demonstrated by doing the same right-side-up, and why would you do that in operations?

 

[sferrin]

I try to think the best of people. In your case, that seems to be inappropriate.

Oh, that hurt. ;D

 

[Steve Pace]

I'm still waiting to see an outside loop...

 

[sferrin]

So what is demonstrated by flying at high-alpha inverted that is not demonstrated by doing the same right-side-up, and why would you do that in operations?

What's demonstrated is a wider operating envelope. That should be obvious. If you don't know why wider operating envelope / fewer flight controlability restrictions would be useful in air combat, well, I can't help you there.

 

[sferrin]

I'm still waiting to see an outside loop...

They'd probably look like Arnold without a helmet on Mars after that.

 

[AeroFranz]

[superseded by avalanche of posts]

Sorry, i couldn't resist. I think it definitely shows good envelope protection on the part of the F-35, which can save pilots over the course of the lifecycle. But I would care more about instantaneous and sustained turn rate.

 

[LowObservable]

AF - Controllability and envelope protection are good (although dismissed by the Church of 5thGenerationTM as "airshow tricks". Just don't see the specific value of sustained inverted high-alpha, which would seem to be a good example of combat positions to stay out of.

 

[sferrin]

AF - Controllability and envelope protection are good (although dismissed by the Church of 5thGenerationTM as "airshow tricks". Just don't see the specific value of sustained inverted high-alpha, which would seem to be a good example of combat positions to stay out of.

Can't have it both ways Bill. While it's true that both the Su-3x's "back flip" and sustained inverted high AOA may be "airshow tricks" they both demonstrate great degrees of controlability. Funny how suddenly that's not important anymore now that the "100 tons of flying blubber" can do that but apparently your Eurocanards can't. ;D

 

[SpudmanWP]

I take it that sferrin, SpudmanWP, and bobbymike have chosen to reject the 60 Minutes report sight unseen.

Based on their reporting history I was a little apprehensive, to say the least.

Actually, I spent the weekend sans F-35 as I had too much coding to do and have not watched or read anything re:F-35 till today.

 

[LowObservable]

So why would you want to be inverted at high alpha in any operational situation?

To cut this short, I am not going to respond to anything other than a direct answer.

 

[sferrin]

So why would you want to be inverted at high alpha in any operational situation?

To cut this short, I am not going to respond to anything other than a direct answer.

That's okay. You've already said all you need to.

 

[AeroFranz]

I take it that sferrin, SpudmanWP, and bobbymike have chosen to reject the 60 Minutes report sight unseen.

Based on their reporting history I was a little apprehensive, to say the least.

Actually, I spent the weekend sans F-35 as I had too much coding to do and have not watched or read anything re:F-35 till today.

You mean you were working and being productive instead of making your contribution to this thread which is going to definitely, irrefutably, prove the worth/unworthiness of the F-35? For shame!
How are the free world's air forces going to decide the future of the battlespace unless we all pitch in? ;D

 

[sferrin]

I take it that sferrin, SpudmanWP, and bobbymike have chosen to reject the 60 Minutes report sight unseen.

Based on their reporting history I was a little apprehensive, to say the least.

Actually, I spent the weekend sans F-35 as I had too much coding to do and have not watched or read anything re:F-35 till today.

You mean you were working and being productive instead of making your contribution to this thread which is going to definitely, irrefutably, prove the worth/unworthiness of the F-35? For shame!
How are the free world's air forces going to decide the future of the battlespace unless we all pitch in? ;D

Hey you take that back! This is the most useful thread on the internetz. How else would we know the truth when Lockheed, the USAF, USN, USMC, and all those other militaries are feeding us a pack of LIES? Thank the Lords of Kobol we have experts such as Arjen to tell us the real story. ;D

 

[AeroFranz]

Well, for the sake of completeness and bipartisanship, I am pretty sure that the lobbyists of Bethesda shun the light, drink blood, worship Satan, and cavort with demons.