The AX Competition (rivals and development of the Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II)

[hesham]

From eBay, I think?

Amazing find Aim9xray,

what was the factory and Model ?.

 

[aim9xray]

Hesham - judging from the "Willis" [Hawkins] and "Kelly" [Johnson] inscription, I'd say that this is a "CL-1400" or "L-1400" alternate point design for A-X from Lockheed. I should also point out that I don't have the original item, just the .jpg.

 

[hesham]

Hesham - judging from the "Willis" [Hawkins] and "Kelly" [Johnson] inscription, I'd say that this is a "CL-1400" or "L-1400" alternate point design for A-X from Lockheed. I should also point out that I don't have the original item, just the .jpg.

OK and thank you.

 

[Pioneer]

Hesham - judging from the "Willis" [Hawkins] and "Kelly" [Johnson] inscription, I'd say that this is a "CL-1400" or "L-1400" alternate point design for A-X from Lockheed.

Ok, looking at picture on a larger PC screen (as opposed to mobile phone screen), the picture is much more relevant - and much more intriguing aim9xray!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[alanqua]

Hello,
Thanks to many of you for your compliments about my drawings.
I wanted to do them in more details and with colored plans and nice effects, but I did not have the time.
Now that this topic has emerged, my desire to depict those Lockheed AX projects is increasing. I hope to find time (and willingness) to start this. Maybe I could suggest this to Le Fana de l'Aviation!
Regards
Alain

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Hi All -

Love it when we get a new donation at the Museum as you never know what you'll find. A donation yesterday had artwork for the McAir design and an interesting memo about McAir assisting, (well, at least discussing) with Boeing-Vertol on their A-X design. McAir never really put in much effort on the proposal so seeing this memo is interesting. File size is too big - will see if Overscan can add it to this thread.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[GTX]

 

[Pioneer]

Going by that fantastic McAir artwork, Mark, I must say I'm impressed by it's rugged workman-like landing gear!

Thank's for sharing mate!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Mark's memo is attached as PDF.

Note Boeing had 2 teams on this:

Boeing (Seattle) management discontinued the West Coast A-X effort using [turbo]fans on 16 July, and expressed confidence in Vertol's A-X configuration.

 

[AeroFranz]

Nice!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

McAir never really put in much effort on the proposal so seeing this memo is interesting.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

McAir put in effort on the 1967 concept formulation study contract but not for the 1970 AX RFP (probably too busy on FX).

 

[alanqua]

Hello,

I'm looking for more informations on the Boeing project proposal for the AX program (the one with the YA-10). Does anybody have illustrations, 3 views plans or something else to help me? The only ilustration I have so far is the following (see in attachment).

Thanks for help.
Regards
Alain

 

[stimpy75]

is there a book on this competition and if yes,name of book/author?
thx in advance

 

[Pioneer]

Mark's memo is attached as PDF.

Note Boeing had 2 teams on this:

Boeing (Seattle) management discontinued the West Coast A-X effort using [turbo]fans on 16 July, and expressed confidence in Vertol's A-X configuration.

Wow, nice find and very interesting read thank you Mark Nankivil
Found it very interesting as to how much time and resources went into FOD and the cross-shaft redundancy (including cost estimates over the lifetime of the aircraft), and the perceived benefit of propeller over turbofan!

Fascinating

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Good Day All -

Pretty much the Vought design in Post #78....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Mark Nankivil]

And another variant with a unswept wing and a slightly different engine nacelle set up. Note the substantial tailhook, not shown on the swept wing version.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[GTX]

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Via the SDASM Archives, color artwork of the 1967 General Dynamics (Convair) AX design.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[sienar]

my stab at it

 

[Silencer1]

my stab at it

Very nice, sienar!
You nearly recreated the picture.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yes, Sienar's version is the most believable one. Good work! I removed our efforts.

 

[Pioneer]

'After the war, Hans-Ulrich Rudel consulted Fairchild during the development of the A-10.'

(Source: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...7-stuka-not-replaced-with-a-more-powerful-one)

As a huge fan of the AX/A-10 and it's role, this is the first time I've heard of Hans-Ulrich Rudel participation in the AX program.


Regards
Pioneer

 

[alanqua]

'After the war, Hans-Ulrich Rudel consulted Fairchild during the development of the A-10.'

(Source: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...7-stuka-not-replaced-with-a-more-powerful-one)

As a huge fan of the AX/A-10 and it's role, this is the first time I've heard of Hans-Ulrich Rudel participation in the AX program.


Regards
Pioneer

Hello,
Here are some work published in Le Fana de l'Aviation hors serie on the A-10. We decided to publish some of the contenders, it's always interesting. In order to make the plans a little bit "sexier", I had to invent some details (markings, some structures details, etc...), but I think they reflect quite well, what could have looked like those contenders. We did not represent all the competitors, they were so many, but only some of them.
Special mention, for the Boeing design, I had informations from a former Boeing researcher/engineer who helped me so that I could propose a good drawing example. There were lots of other Boeing designs, but I found rare information on them.
Regards
Alain

 

[hesham]

From L+K 18/1970,

also North American/Rockwell and Bell Textron submitted a proposals for this contest ?.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Good Day All -

Found these two sketches in the Robert Kemp Collection on the SDASM Flickr which seem to be AX designs.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[martinbayer]

Good Day All -

Found these two sketches in the Robert Kemp Collection on the SDASM Flickr which seem to be AX designs.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Are we sure these two sketches are legit? In both the ejection seat triangles are drawn upside down.

 

[The Artist]

A black and white photo print of Keith Ferris' painting done early for the program. Of note is the SEA Camo.

Another sample from the Aric Aldrich collection in the collection of the Greater St Louis Air & Space Museum.

 

[isayyo2]

I don't think this has been posted yet, it's a Hughes promotional film that shows a few seconds of the GAU-9 being fired on a test stand.

 

[hesham]

From Air Force 1968,

I can't ID this ?.

 

[isayyo2]

From Air Force 1968,

I can't ID this ?.

Grumman’s T55 Mohawk derivative?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

In-house ASD (Wright-Patterson) AX design



Splendid Vision, Unswerving Purpose: Developing Air Power for the United States Air Force During the First Century of Powered Flight
2002

 

[foiling]

Hello,
Here are some work published in Le Fana de l'Aviation hors serie on the A-10. We decided to publish some of the contenders, it's always interesting. In order to make the plans a little bit "sexier", I had to invent some details (markings, some structures details, etc...), but I think they reflect quite well, what could have looked like those contenders. We did not represent all the competitors, they were so many, but only some of them.
Special mention, for the Boeing design, I had informations from a former Boeing researcher/engineer who helped me so that I could propose a good drawing example. There were lots of other Boeing designs, but I found rare information on them.
Regards
Alain

Outstanding art.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

A beautiful model posted on FB by John Benton who at one time owned it. Posted with John's permission.
Wow.....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[Pioneer]

A beautiful model posted on FB by John Benton who at one time owned it. Posted with John's permission.
Wow.....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Now that's one awesome looking model!!

Thanks heaps for sharing Mark (and John Benton)

Regards
Pioneer

 

[publiusr]

Brundel-Beech. I told that Frogfoot driver to not mess with the teleport prototype at Oshkosh...but nooo...

 

[allysonca]

A beautiful model posted on FB by John Benton who at one time owned it. Posted with John's permission.
Wow.....

Enjoy the Day! Mark

I've been lusting for this since he posted it... mah vee looose

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

https://archives.lib.purdue.edu/repositories/2/resources/98

Roy D. Bridges Jr was a test pilot on the YA-9 and YA-10. His papers include materials on both.

 

[Pioneer]

https://archives.lib.purdue.edu/repositories/2/resources/98

Roy D. Bridges Jr was a test pilot on the YA-9 and YA-10. His papers include materials on both.

Wow, wouldn't it be amazing to have interviewed Roy D. Bridges Jr and his unbiased opinion of both the YA-9 and YA-10!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[mkellytx]

https://archives.lib.purdue.edu/repositories/2/resources/98

Roy D. Bridges Jr was a test pilot on the YA-9 and YA-10. His papers include materials on both.

Wow, wouldn't it be amazing to have interviewed Roy D. Bridges Jr and his unbiased opinion of both the YA-9 and YA-10!

Regards
Pioneer

Damn, should have asked him when he lectured our dynamics and orbital mechanics classes back at Purdue 20+ years ago. Honestly, we were kind of awestruck with by the general and astronaut and didn't think to ask about things that happened before we were born or while we were babies. If I'd only known...

 

[Sundog]

https://archives.lib.purdue.edu/repositories/2/resources/98

Roy D. Bridges Jr was a test pilot on the YA-9 and YA-10. His papers include materials on both.

Wow, wouldn't it be amazing to have interviewed Roy D. Bridges Jr and his unbiased opinion of both the YA-9 and YA-10!

Regards
Pioneer

Damn, should have asked him when he lectured our dynamics and orbital mechanics classes back at Purdue 20+ years ago. Honestly, we were kind of awestruck with by the general and astronaut and didn't think to ask about things that happened before we were born or while we were babies. If I'd only known...

If we had only known then what we know. When I was at Purdue I was there for Scott Crossfield's talk in the eighties and the NASA HiMAT group. I have a lot more questions now, than I did then.