The AIM-9 Sidewinder family

There already has been an air to ground Sidewinder variant - the AGM-87A FOCUS I made by converting AIM-9B seeker-heads and it was used successfully in the Vietnam war to interdict the Ho Chi Minh trail yet strangely there's very little mention of it.
 
NMaude said:
There already has been an air to ground Sidewinder variant - the AGM-87A FOCUS I made by converting AIM-9B seeker-heads and it was used successfully in the Vietnam war to interdict the Ho Chi Minh trail yet strangely there's very little mention of it.
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Indeed - see here: http://www.military-today.com/missiles/agm_87_focus.htm
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Does anyone know anything or have any links concerning the "Subwinder" which IIRC was a project where AIM-9X sidewinders would be launched from Los Angeles class SSNs VLS in a capsule (A bit like how the UGM-84 was launched).
 
NMaude said:
Does anyone know anything or have any links concerning the "Subwinder" which IIRC was a project where AIM-9X sidewinders would be launched from Los Angeles class SSNs VLS in a capsule (A bit like how the UGM-84 was launched).
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www.defensedaily.com

Raytheon Demonstrates Ability To Launch An AIM-9X From Submarine - Defense Daily

By Geoff Fein The Navy and a Raytheon -led team have been exploring the use of a submarine-launched AIM-9X sidewinder air-to-air missile to provide self-
www.defensedaily.com www.defensedaily.com
www.thedrive.com

Have Submarine-Launched Anti-Aircraft Missiles Finally Come Of Age?

A submarine that can fire back at an aircraft hunting it certainly sounds intriguing, but is such a capability really relevant?
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
 
Thanks.

What about this idea for launching an AIM-9X from a submarine's VLS - have the missile encapsulated and ejected from the launch-canister with a gas-generator but with a Mk-72 21" booster at the rear-end of the capsule that fires just as the capsule broaches the surface.
 
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In regards to the AIM-9X and greatly improving its range why not just simply adapt the AIM-9X seeker package to the AIM-120C/D airframe and have an IIR version of the AMRAAM?
 
NMaude said:
In regards to the AIM-9X and greatly improving its range why not just simply adapt the AIM-9X seeker package to the AIM-120C/D airframe and have an IIR version of the AMRAAM?
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The AMRAAM is larger, heavier and does not have the close in agility or HOBS capability of the AIM-9X. It also costs a lot more. I'm not sure it is that hard to get a range boost on the AIM-9X over its expected production run. There is probably merit in retaining a 5" diameter CCM. The AIM-9X has literally 12-14production lots ahead of it. They added a seeker which is a precursor to longer ranged shots. The upgraded seeker should make it more capable against countermeasures. The final piece of that is an upgraded SRM which is in the Navy's S&T/R&D budgets so perhaps they'll look to cut it into production after SIP-4 cuts the new seeker and other upgrades.
 
bring_it_on said:
The AMRAAM is larger, heavier and does not have the close in agility or HOBS capability of the AIM-9X. It also costs a lot more.
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Good points however it might be handy having an IR-guided variant of the AMRAAM.
 
NMaude said:
bring_it_on said:
The AMRAAM is larger, heavier and does not have the close in agility or HOBS capability of the AIM-9X. It also costs a lot more.
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Good points however it might be handy having an IR-guided variant of the AMRAAM.
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I don't either service would want a purely IR guided missile for long range engagements so a pure IR seeker equipped AMRAAM is not going to go anywhere unless it is for CMD or something like that. The AIM-260 is the future Medium-Long range missile for the AF and the Navy and it will address some of the more challenging threats as per the USAF which should solve for some of the RF countermeasures. Would be interested to see what guidance it has.
 
AN/AWW-14(V) said:
I'm found some interesting...
remember mysterious AIM-9X Block II PLUS (AIM-9X-3)
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Nothing too exciting, but cool anyway (с)Steve Trimble

What is the only authorized spot to place the grounding cable on a AIM-9X-3?
Hanger Bolt

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I make picture for you clearly understand difference location ground points on missiles (all figures was shown legacy 9X):
AIM-9X and AIM-9X-2 - wing screw or wing rib
AIM-9X-3 - I think, has a features as reduced number of various small parts on the missile's surface and RAM coat
say for sure is surface without RAM-coat - Hanger Bolt(s) on legacy 9X hanger bolts are painted over!

ribse.jpg
 
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Where did he get that AIM-9J GCU from? Anyway I hope he takes photographs on both sides of each of the unit's circuit-boards.

Edit: In one of his comments Arsenio mentions that the J model is stuck between B's valves and solid-state L/M, that's mostly correct however the first Sidewinder model to be solid-state was the USN's AIM-9H.
 
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Magi said:
I'm seriously considering an extended road trip early next year. Naval Aviation, Air Force Armament, and Army Aviation Museums are all an hour or two from each other, so once I'm there I can see all three
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So how are your plans for the road-trip going?
 
NMaude said:
Magi said:
I'm seriously considering an extended road trip early next year. Naval Aviation, Air Force Armament, and Army Aviation Museums are all an hour or two from each other, so once I'm there I can see all three
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So how are your plans for the road-trip going?
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Well, Naval Aviation is on Pensacola NAS, which is closed to civilians after an on-base shooting in 2019. By a pilot trainee authorized to be there, so yes banning civilians is stupid.

Heading out to Arizona next week to see Pima air Museum and the Titan silo. I'm then planning on hitting China Lake Museum at some point after that
 
Magi said:
I'm then planning on hitting China Lake Museum at some point after that
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Given that the Sidewinder was developed there hopefully you'll be able to get access to lots of documents in their technical library.
 
Your smart phone can make for a pretty good scanner. Just use the appropriate post-processing software afterward!
 
So I'm actually in China Lake (technically Ridgecrest but whatever) right now.

There's two museums. The one on the base is the one with all the cool stuff, but us civilians can't go see that.

The off-base museum is tiny, to the point it's really not worth driving two hours into the middle of nowhere to see it, it's a 20-minute museum.

I did find out one cool thing though. You know those pictures of an AIM-9B getting fired at a tank target, @GTX posted the pictures towards the top of this page?

That's not Focus, that's LAIM. A Sidewinder modified for laser guidance, the proof-of-concept for the entire laser-guided weapons program. They made exactly one of them and it was expended in the test.

I'll email them in a week or so asking for more info and post the pics I took.
 
AN/AWW-14(V) said:

For all of us
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What a great video and information of the ubiquitous Sidewinder.

As a side note, prompted by the the said video:

"Sidewinder 1B, a low drag, folding fin, higher performance missile that would allow internal carriage"

Was there a particular development/technical reason that this folding fin derivative of the Sidewinder was never put into production and operational service?


Regards
Pioneer
 
Pioneer said:
AN/AWW-14(V) said:

For all of us
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What a great video and information of the ubiquitous Sidewinder.

As a side note, prompted by the the said video:

"Sidewinder 1B, a low drag, folding fin, higher performance missile that would allow internal carriage"

Was there a particular development/technical reason that this folding fin derivative of the Sidewinder was never put into production and operational service?


Regards
Pioneer
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If I recall correctly cause of how the old Sidewinder was stabilize, little air power gyroscope flaps on the tail planes, made it s pain to make it folded.

Cause by the time it unfolded those little flaps often stabilize in the wrong position sending the missile all over the jiont.

Couldn't make an interal stabilizer cause it will triple the cost of the missile and double the size with the tech at the time.
 
Firefinder said:
Pioneer said:
AN/AWW-14(V) said:

For all of us
Click to expand...
What a great video and information of the ubiquitous Sidewinder.

As a side note, prompted by the the said video:

"Sidewinder 1B, a low drag, folding fin, higher performance missile that would allow internal carriage"

Was there a particular development/technical reason that this folding fin derivative of the Sidewinder was never put into production and operational service?


Regards
Pioneer
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If I recall correctly cause of how the old Sidewinder was stabilize, little air power gyroscope flaps on the tail planes, made it s pain to make it folded.

Cause by the time it unfolded those little flaps often stabilize in the wrong position sending the missile all over the jiont.

Couldn't make an interal stabilizer cause it will triple the cost of the missile and double the size with the tech at the time.
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Thank you my dear Firefinder

Regards
Pioneer

 
Does the US still have its retired MIM-72 Chaparral launchers in storage or have they sold them off, if they still have them then no doubt the Ukrainians would love to have them.
 
NMaude said:
Does the US still have its retired MIM-72 Chaparral launchers in storage or have they sold them off, if they still have them then no doubt the Ukrainians would love to have them.
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Given they exited service in 1997 I think they are all long gone by now...or past practical usability.
 
I just did some reading up on the RIM-116 and learned that the Block 2 is apparently a larger diameter missile to allow for a larger rocket motor and greater range.

Given the Sidewinder legacy in that missile design it seems like it might be relatively easy to take a step back and incorporate that same improvement in the AIM-9X to extend range and/or increase speed. Most of the aircraft that can use the AIM-9X could probably handle the increased size and weight without trouble.

AIM-9Z? Or maybe a whole new designation at that point?
 
Colonial-Marine said:
I just did some reading up on the RIM-116 and learned that the Block 2 is apparently a larger diameter missile to allow for a larger rocket motor and greater range.

Given the Sidewinder legacy in that missile design it seems like it might be relatively easy to take a step back and incorporate that same improvement in the AIM-9X to extend range and/or increase speed. Most of the aircraft that can use the AIM-9X could probably handle the increased size and weight without trouble.

AIM-9Z? Or maybe a whole new designation at that point?
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Or just Take the proposed Block III Rocket Motor. Or even better Combine it.
 
kqcke for you said:
Or just Take the proposed Block III Rocket Motor. Or even better Combine it.
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I never did see a clear explanation of what Block III was going to consist of. Did it definitely entail a bulked-up motor? (Hard to see how they were going to achieve the desired range without one.)
 
TomS said:
I never did see a clear explanation of what Block III was going to consist of. Did it definitely entail a bulked-up motor? (Hard to see how they were going to achieve the desired range without one.)
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Well (as far as i know) Block III engine was the same dimentions but the use of modern fuels, some dual Pulse but also gute and warhead we're new. 50-60% more range was the Goal and that is easy If the engine is old.
 
NMaude said:
So, Chaparralski;).

I assume that these AIM-9s aren't -9Xs but -9L/Ms?
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Being a Ukrainian development, I would call it Čaparral's'kyj. I do wonder if the Supacat launch vehicle for ASRAAM could also launch AIM-9's.
 
The ACSV G5 from norway are gonna come from the start with 9X now. Maybe the netherlands will follow as both will US 9X only in there air Force now thanks to F-35. c7a3a1c10f070e298ea9dd79fe4962d4b04e36ab.jpeg 424ba2347d0120242ecddd46843185f13d5201c4.jpeg
 
Yeah I forgot that AIM-9Y would still be open.

I guess the RIM-116 Block 2 just has a larger diameter rocket motor and not the rest of the missile and that is probably is less than ideal for use from an aircraft. Still, I don't see why it wouldn't be a smart idea to upscale the missile to a larger diameter design similar to some of the AIM-9X's competition.
 
One thing that could be done is to mate the AIM-9X's seeker assembly (And associated electronics) with the body of the AMRAAM.
 

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