THAAD Development

[sferrin]

According to the wikipedia article ERIS was a precursor for both the THAAD and GBI interceptors.

It was certainly before THAAD but ERIS was an exoatmospheric KKV (it's in the name; Exoatmospheric Reentry-vehicle Interceptor Subsystem, or ERIS). It had no endoatmospheric capability. KITE and AIT fed into THAAD.

https://missilethreat.csis.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/170406_Karako_MissileDefense2020_Web.pdf

"Funded concurrently with the ERIS, the HEDI program looked to develop technology for a ground launched endoatmospheric component of a layered defense architecture.55 HEDI interceptors were to defeat missiles at the end of their midcourse and into the terminal phase of flight. While no intercepts were attempted, HEDI technology contributed to what is now known as the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system."

 

[NMaude]

It was certainly before THAAD but ERIS was an exoatmospheric KKV (it's in the name; Exoatmospheric Reentry-vehicle Interceptor Subsystem, or ERIS). It had no endoatmospheric capability. KITE and AIT fed into THAAD.

I suspect that any contribution ERIS made to THAAD was its IIR sensor technology.

 

[Forest Green]

Weird that the seeker seems to be offset at a side-mounted angle.

 

[NMaude]

Weird that the seeker seems to be offset at a side-mounted angle.

Isn't that the case with the THAAD's seeker too?

 

[NASA]

I believe E³I would become GBI, and E²I would become THAAD.

 

[Forest Green]

I believe E³I would become GBI, and E²I would become THAAD.

SPBD?

 

[sferrin]

Isn't that the case with the THAAD's seeker too?

So they can have a layer of "cool" gas between the seeker window and the airstream. I read somewhere that it becomes a balancing act between going too fast and melting the window, and going too slow, running out of gas, and melting the window. On top of that you have to eject the shroud early enough so your seeker has time to acquire the target and the KKV can get in position but not so early that you run out of coolant.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj0qp_vm6mEAxVhlu4BHZn5AnEQFnoECBcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Freport.nat.gov.tw%2FReportFront%2FPageSystem%2FreportFileDownload%2FC10000970%2F002&usg=AOvVaw1uDOM_SPu8S_FaGr0Kr84S&opi=89978449

 

[Josh_TN]

THAAD seems to get around the problem by using a shroud.

 

[Forest Green]

 

[sferrin]

And even then they keep it covered as long as possible.

 

[TomS]

SM-2 Block IVA is similar, with a cover over the IR seeker until late in flight to minimize heating (and potential debris damage during launch, presumably)

.

 

[NMaude]

Defense Updates has a video about the THAAD's recent evaluation at Guam:

The US Army has announced that Task Force Talon’s E-3 ADA THAAD Battery recently carried out a Table VIII evaluation for the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system stationed in Guam from March 11 to 15, 2024.

With its state-of-the-art components, the E-3 THAAD Battery serves as a formidable shield against potential ballistic missile threats targeting Guam and its vicinity. The recent completion of the Table VIII evaluation reaffirms the unit's preparedness to effectively deter and counter emerging security challenges, particularly those originating from China, amidst the evolving regional security dynamics.

In this video, Defense Updates analyzes why THAAD's intense evaluation in Guam is crucial ?

#defenseupdates #THAAD #usvschina

Chapters:

00:11 INTRODUCTION

01:53 DISCLOSURE

03:19 CHINESE THREAT ON GUAM

05:25 THAAD

07:51 ANALYSIS

 

[Forest Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1789764706300751970

View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1789764706300751970

https://twitter.com/x/status/1789798994496926203

View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1789798994496926203

 

[Scott Kenny]

I think we're going to end up seeing a lot more hypersonic-capable SAM TELs getting deployed out and away from their main radar units.

Simply because intercepting a hypersonic whatever means the interceptor needs to be very close to the target to be able to make the intercept at all.

 

[Cordy]

If the radar is 80 km/ 50 miles away from the THAAD with its remote launcher kit the radar horizon will be approx 40,000 ft so assume it will not see the "low" level hypersonic attacking missile coming unless radar near the line of attack?

 

[Scott Kenny]

If the radar is 80 km/ 50 miles away from the THAAD with its remote launcher kit the radar horizon will be approx 40,000 ft so assume it will not see the "low" level hypersonic attacking missile coming unless radar near the line of attack?

I strongly doubt anything will be hypersonic at much under 80,000ft for any length of time. Too much air friction, too much heat. They'll climb to 80+k then cruise or glide that high till it reaches the terminal dive point. ASALM burned itself up at roughly Mach 6 and ~20kft, though it wasn't super exotic materials, just stainless steel.

In the case ofASALM, at low altitudes the Mach numberis rather low: around 2.5 to 3. The higher cruise Mach number of 4 takesplace only in the thinner, colder air uparound 80,000 feet. On a "standardday", at 20,000 feet Mach 2.5 theworst case is soakout to the recovery temperature, which is very near the stagnation temperatureof 547 F (286 C). At 80,000 feet Mach4, it is around 1211 F (655 C). These are temperatures that a Martensiticstainless steel can handle without too much loss of strength. However, at Mach 6 and 20,000 feet for the throttle runaway incident in flighttest 1, these temperatures were quiteunsurvivable for steady-state exposure, at3209 F (1765 C), which neatly explainsthe telemetry about the skin beginning to melt during this brief transientevent.

Not even Titanium would survive that, since Ti melts at 1941K/1668degC. You'd have to use (very fragile) reinforced carbon-carbon to survive that kind of heat. RCC can happily take over 2000degC. RCC is also expensive with a complex and time-consuming manufacturing process.

 

[NMaude]

Given that the proposed THAAD-ER used a 21" diameter first-stage instead of a totally new LV stack (The THAAD-ER would've used the same KKV as the standard THAAD) just mount the KKV (With a suitable adapter) on top of the SM-3 Block-IIA missile in place of the Raytheon EKV.

 

[TomS]

Given that the proposed THAAD-ER used a 21" diameter first-stage instead of a totally new LV stack (The THAAD-ER would've used the same KKV as the standard THAAD) just mount the KKV (With a suitable adapter) on top of the SM-3 Block-IIA missile in place of the Raytheon EKV.

For land-based use only. The Navy is not putting a hydrazine-powered kill vehicle on its ships.

 

[NMaude]

For land-based use only. The Navy is not putting a hydrazine-powered kill vehicle on its ships.

Well, yes, of course and I wonder if that missile combination would fit into a Mk-41 VLS cell (Is it too long?). As for the hydrazine DACS it shouldn't be too hard to develop a version for the THAAD KKV based on the SM-3's SDACS.

 

[Josh_TN]

Well, yes, of course and I wonder if that missile combination would fit into a Mk-41 VLS cell (Is it too long?). As for the hydrazine DACS it shouldn't be too hard to develop a version for the THAAD KKV based on the SM-3's SDACS.

What is the end goal then? Is this just to enable SM-3 endo atmospheric engagements?

 

[NMaude]

Is this just to enable SM-3 endo atmospheric engagements?

Basically, yes. The problem with the SM-3's EKV is that it can only perform exo-atmospheric intercepts (IIRC it has a minimum operating height of 195,000Ft) also using the SM-3 Block-IIA booster stack with the minimum needed modifications to fit the THAAD KKV on top avoids the need of having to develop a completely new booster stack for a THAAD-ER.

Edited to add: The shelved THAAD-ER was a two-stage design, what I'm suggesting would be a three-stage design with much higher performance.

 

[sferrin]

Basically, yes. The problem with the SM-3's EKV is that it can only perform exo-atmospheric intercepts (IIRC it has a minimum operating height of 195,000Ft) also using the SM-3 Block-IIA booster stack with the minimum needed modifications to fit the THAAD KKV on top avoids the need of having to develop a completely new booster stack for a THAAD-ER.

Edited to add: The shelved THAAD-ER was a two-stage design, what I'm suggesting would be a three-stage design with much higher performance.

So a phat SM-6 with a THAAD KKV?

 

[NMaude]

So a phat SM-6 with a THAAD KKV?

View attachment 728731

You could go either with a two-stage layout - Mk-72 launch booster and 21" DTRM with the THAAD KKV mounted on top with a conical adapter (Perhaps containing the booster's autopilot) or a three-stage booster stack - Mk-72, 21" DTRM and 21" TSRM with the THAAD KKV mounted atop the TSRM via a conical adapter.

 

[sferrin]

You could go either with a two-stage layout - Mk-72 launch booster and 21" DTRM with the THAAD KKV mounted on top with a conical adapter (Perhaps contain the booster's autopilot) or a three-stage booster stack - Mk-72, 21" DTRM and 21" TSRM with the THAAD KKV mounted atop the TSRM via a conical adapter.

DTRM? TSRM?

 

[GeorgeA]

DTRM? TSRM?

Dual Thrust Rocket Motor
Third Stage Rocket Motor

 

[Forest Green]

 

[Forest Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801395595187212664

View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1801395595187212664

 

[Cordy]

MDA in FY2025 is budgeting for additional funding for the ~$240 million high definition X-band Raytheon AN/TPY-2 radars for THAAD and Patriot.

https://insidedefense.com/daily-new...ontractor-key-ballistic-missile-warning-radar

 

[NMaude]

How exactly does the THAAD's KKV shroud seperate from it especially when it's under supersonic airflows going over it?

 

[Scott Kenny]

How exactly does the THAAD's KKV shroud seperate from it especially when it's under supersonic airflows going over it?

I'd expect the shroud gets cut via linear shaped charges (typical use), and the force of the shot pushes the leading edge of the cut section out just enough into the airflow to catch and get peeled away.

 

[xena]

What designation has THAAD? Normaly it should have something with MIM-xxx...

 

[Forest Green]

What designation has THAAD? Normaly it should have something with MIM-xxx...

Seems to be MIM-401.

Lockheed Martin THAAD

 

[xena]

Andreas says that it is not certain. Strange that there is no official designation.

 

[Andreas Parsch]

Andreas says that it is not certain. Strange that there is no official designation.

The Army operates most of its more recent surface-launched missiles without an MDS designation.

 

[NMaude]

The Army operates most of its more recent surface-launched missiles without an MDS designation.

That is very strange and IMO they should be legally required to have a tri-services designation.

 

[Andreas Parsch]

That is very strange and IMO they should be legally required to have a tri-services designation.

The regulations covering the MDS system descibe in detail, how the designations look like, and what has to be done to a get an approved designator. But nowhere do they say, that the US military services have to request an MDS designation for every aerospace vehicle they use. If the Army command responsible for the procurement and management of, say, the THAAD system thinks they can keep track of the missiles without an MDS designation, then so be it.

The only thing which might actually be against the regulations is to use an "MDS-like" designation without having it officially approved (which may have happened with THAAD, if the Army indeed uses "MIM-401" in some contexts). OTOH, given that the regulations are quite often ignored anyway with all the non-conforming approved(!) designations, probably nobody cares about that, either.

 

[Firefinder]

Of course it very well be a Case it having a Designation but no one uses it much like how the Patriot is.

Like the MIM104 is the Patriot designation.


And no one uses it, even in official paperwork like on DA Form 5988s.*

At all, its either the Patriot when referring to the entire set up or the INDIVIDUAL sub parts like the MPQ65 radar, the commo, the Trucks types, or Pac what ever missile.

Honestly likely the same deal is in effect.

*That the form for PMCS, Preventive maintenance checks and services, AKA what the operators get generally every monday to write whats broke or breaking to determine what needs fixing.

And Trust me.

Both the Clerks who handle the paperwork and the System are EXTREMELY Anal bout the labeling.

As in getting on us radar operators to tell them which extact program version the radars running.

 

[aonestudio]

RTX's Raytheon completes first AN/TPY-2 radar for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

This latest version features GaN technology for increased sensitivity.TUCSON, Ariz., Sept. 25, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- Raytheon, an RTX (NYSE: RTX) business, has delivered the first AN/TPY-2 radar for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The AN/TPY-2 is a missile defense radar that can detect, track and...

www.rtx.com

TUCSON, Ariz., Sept. 25, 2024 /PRNewswire/ -- Raytheon, an RTX (NYSE: RTX) business, has delivered the first AN/TPY-2 radar for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The AN/TPY-2 is a missile defense radar that can detect, track and discriminate ballistic missiles in multiple phases of flight.

This is the first AN/TPY-2 radar with a complete Gallium Nitride, or GaN, populated array in the system. GaN is a glasslike material that offers key advantages over other radio frequency semiconductors in energy efficiency, weight and power output. GaN technology provides greater sensitivity to increase range as well as expand surveillance capacity. This technology is also a key enabler in allowing the AN/TPY-2 radar to support the hypersonic mission.

"The latest AN/TPY-2 radar is now in a different class with Raytheon making more than 50 enhancements to the radar," said Paul Ferraro, President, Air & Space Defense Systems, Raytheon. "These upgrades will help Saudi Arabia to better defend itself from missile threats and will additionally benefit the entire fleet with enhanced sensing capability."

 

[Christopher Wang]

With the United States Army already fielding the Typhon Mid-Range Capability (MRC) which uses four strike-length Mark 41 VLS, would the RIM-161 SM-3 Block I (13.5") or Block II (21") fired from the Typhon MRC be an acceptable substitute for the THAAD?

 

[Josh_TN]

SM-3 is exoatmospheric only, where as THAAD is endo/exo. There’s also a significant kinetic difference as well, at least for the blk2 SM-3. That said, the USN and US Army are collaborating on a defensive system for Guam that will be land based but use relocatable radars and launchers (including mk70) using a combination of both systems, and indeed most every air defense system in U.S. inventory.