BAe Tempest and other pre-GCAP studies

[fightingirish]

In the July 2018 AEROSPACE: The UK mulls sixth gen fighter options, interview with Marillyn Hewson, CEO of Lockheed Martin, airlines face post-Brexit uncertainty and Russia relaunches biplane design.

Source: https://www.aerosociety.com/news/in-the-latest-aerospace-magazine-july-2018/

 

[mrmalaya]

Does Tempest work for the Japanese too?

Now that the French are offering SCAF membership to the Belgians as part of their efforts to push Rafale on them, I think the writing is on the wall for that particular cross-channel partnership unfortunately...

 

[fightingirish]

In the July 2018 AEROSPACE: The UK mulls sixth gen fighter options, interview with Marillyn Hewson, CEO of Lockheed Martin, airlines face post-Brexit uncertainty and Russia relaunches biplane design.

Source: https://www.aerosociety.com/news/in-the-latest-aerospace-magazine-july-2018/

The article is now online.
Article: https://www.aerosociety.com/news/uk-mulls-sixth-generation-fighter-project/
Twitter with more pictures:
https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1014238654938730496
https://twitter.com/AeroSociety/status/1014087645440430081
That YF-23 version of the FCAS, you see in Twitter, is just fan-art.
See:
https://www.deviantart.com/robcaswell/art/Desert-Bird-198742808
https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/fa-fireghost-stealth-rocket-fighter/76106/

 

[flateric]

https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/article/epawss---new-electronic-warfare-program
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/bae-systems-mixed-reality-cockpit-technology-aims-to-revolutionise-future-aircraft-----

 

[mrmalaya]

What a find!

 

[FighterJock]

https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/article/epawss---new-electronic-warfare-program
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/bae-systems-mixed-reality-cockpit-technology-aims-to-revolutionise-future-aircraft-----

I wonder if that style of cockpit will ever see the light of day, I would not like to place a bet on it that's for sure.

 

[Mike Pryce]

Some images off Twitter from BAE Warton media day.

Pointy wing tips (stalling) and tailplanes that seem to attach by magic indicate this is just for PR.

 

[mrmalaya]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-holds-discussions-with-sweden-over-fighter-collaboration/

But we actually need to see what SAAB and BAE can design between them!

 

[Hood]

Seems odd that BAE Systems aren't trying to get onto the Franco-German programme, but then BAE always did have a stake in Gripen so it makes sense to pursue the SAAB option.

Given the financial and technical issues that contracted the desires of the European nations to just three European platforms in the 1980s, it seems unlikely that the vastly increased R&D costs and the smaller export markets can sustain two, let alone three European programmes. I feel sure that the nations will coalesce as time goes on into the early 2020s if their different requirements can be met.

I don't feel the Turkish programme really counts, I have a feeling its going to be a lot like the K-FX with cool stealthy looks but decidedly 4.5th generation capabilities. Useful fill-in fighters and useful industrial and political tools but not at the cutting edge by any means.

 

[sienar]

Some images off Twitter from BAE Warton media day.

Pointy wing tips (stalling) and tailplanes that seem to attach by magic indicate this is just for PR.

I really hope that model was a case of some execs 13 year old son messing around in blender and not a professional modeller.

 

[Mike Pryce]

A sketch from @RAeSTimR on Twitter, at today's media day at Warton.

Optional manning discussed.

 

[flateric]

higher res
well, I know that it's just a funny placeholder art, but whatever

 

[TomcatViP]

super Vulcan?
(The fr art is similarly a super Rafale. How funny....)

 

[Mike Pryce]

Something from the day job:

UK Combat Air - The Next Generation

https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/about/cds/low-cost-by-design

 

[Deltafan]

I hope that it's the good place for this link :

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/farnborough/2018/07/11/why-an-unmanned-fighter-fleet-isnt-yet-viable-in-the-words-of-britains-air-force-chief/

 

[Flyaway]

Jobs boost as MoD plan for British fighter jet takes off

Ministers are set to unveil plans to build a new fighter jet tomorrow — in a move that will sustain thousands of jobs and continue more than a century of combat aircraft manufacturing.

The commitment to develop a sixth-generation manned fighter is expected to be the highlight of defence secretary Gavin Williamson’s Combat Air Strategy, a blueprint for sustaining military aerospace design and manufacturing skills.

The pledge will provide a boost for the defence industry on the first day of the Farnborough air show, which will be opened by Theresa May. Bosses have long argued that Britain must commit to a new fighter jet or risk losing a crucial industry.

The move will sustain thousands of jobs in Lancashire, where BAE Systems builds the Eurofighter…

Unfortunately the rest of the article is behind a paywall.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jobs-boost-as-mod-plan-for-british-fighter-jet-takes-off-xn372l230

 

[mrmalaya]

Well the Combat Air Strategy is definitely on for tomorrow, but what will it bring? Can we hope for a genuinely national project?

 

[muttbutt]

Thanks to Tim Robinson,

 

[Mike Pryce]

And another from him.

 

[mrmalaya]

Surely this must warrant it's own thread now that we have a name for the project and some clearly defined aims?

Is it Team Tempest or just plain tempest?

 

[mrmalaya]

I might be slightly premature, but this appears to be a system that they want flying alongside the F35 and Typhoon by 2035, with DEW, flexible weapons and cockpit and not so challenging as to raise costs or delay entry into service.

Also open to other partners but primarily made for the UK and produced by Team Tempest: RR, Leonardo, MBDA and BAE Systems.

AVM Rochelle is quoted as saying: "Funding is real. We are working at pace."

 

[Mike Pryce]

Rolls engine

 

[Mike Pryce]

UK Combat Air Strategy is out:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/combat-air-strategy-an-ambitious-vision-for-the-future

I can also now say I acted as an Independent Scientific & Technical Advice (ISTA) register member to MOD on this, as well as leading a public project for the Low Cost by Design network already posted on the FCAS thread.

Fascinating stuff. Will appear in the archives in 20 years!

 

[mrmalaya]

But will there be a book in 20 years too?

 

[mrmalaya]

From the government publication:

 

[Mike Pryce]

But will there be a book in 20 years too?

The rate I write at.....! ???

 

[mrmalaya]

I can't help but feel I have seen this design before though. Not recently, but before. Can anyone help?

 

[Flyaway]

Now unveiled.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44848294

 

[Hood]

I'd be wary of reading too much into a plastic mock-up. I must admit, I was expecting an announcement of joining the Franco-German effort rather than an attempt to revive a home-grown design.
The media are jumping all over this as Britain's new fighter, but if you listen to what Gavin Williamson says, its actually only a concept and is a shrewd political move to show willingness to collaborate. The mock-up is a nice PR item but I feel we'll look back on this in 20 years the same as the BAe P.110 mock-up back in the 80s.

Team Tempest was formed back in April to develop a low-cost UCAS demonstrator building previous work which included Taranis. Since then with all the talk of European fighters the emphasis has obviously shifted to something that can be optionally manned. I wonder how much of TF-X is in this design (maybe that's why this mock-up looks so familiar?)
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/team-tempest-pursues-ucas-demonstrator-deal-447301/

 

[Flyaway]

I'd be wary of reading too much into a plastic mock-up. I must admit, I was expecting an announcement of joining the Franco-German effort rather than an attempt to revive a home-grown design.
The media are jumping all over this as Britain's new fighter, but if you listen to what Gavin Williamson says, its actually only a concept and is a shrewd political move to show willingness to collaborate. The mock-up is a nice PR item but I feel we'll look back on this in 20 years the same as the BAe P.110 mock-up back in the 80s.

Team Tempest was formed back in April to develop a low-cost UCAS demonstrator building previous work which included Taranis. Since then with all the talk of European fighters the emphasis has obviously shifted to something that can be optionally manned. I wonder how much of TFX is in this design (maybe that's why this mock-up looks so familiar?)
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/team-tempest-pursues-ucas-demonstrator-deal-447301/

It looks more like the project we are trying to partner with the Swedes on rather than Germany & France.

 

[mrmalaya]

My take on it is that it is funded, with a production decision to be made by 2020 with the finery of R&D being done in the meantime.

2035 IOC is the official line.

 

[Deino]

Interesting... however how likely is this to ever materialise as a pure British project in mind of the Brexit and after France and Germany decided to go ahead with their joint effort?

 

[Deltafan]

Another link :

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-unveils-new-next-generation-fighter-jet-called-tempest/

 

[Mike Pryce]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-airshow-fighter-bae-systems/uk-looking-to-sweden-japan-in-search-for-partners-on-new-fighter-jet-idUKKBN1K61JI

 

[CJGibson]

But will there be a book in 20 years too?

The rate I write at.....! ???

Beat me to it!

Chris

 

[red admiral]

I can't help but feel I have seen this design before though. Not recently, but before. Can anyone help?

Sort of like a stealthier and uglier version of Rayner's Rockwell ATF design?

Or some FB-22 iterations

 

[litzj]

in the figure of explanation for “flexible payload configuration”

Is that four ucavs in weapon bay of tempest? it seems like that...

so tempest could be carrier of ucav? hu?

 

[Jeb]

I can't help but feel I have seen this design before though. Not recently, but before. Can anyone help?

Sort of like a stealthier and uglier version of Rayner's Rockwell ATF design?

Or some FB-22 iterations

I see F-22/F-35 forebody, X-32 delta from the wingroots back, with the tailpipe section from an old F7U Cutlass. It's like a weird kitbash.

 

[phil gollin]

.

I'm at a bit of a loss how a single (sort of) airframe will be a good choice for both a manned and unmanned aircraft.

The difference in weight and free space in the unmanned version would allow a smaller/ more agile/whatever aircraft.

It would seem to be better to design and build two closely related aircraft, using the same engines, sensors, etc.... Yes, more expensive, but more cost effective when bought for service.

.

 

[mrmalaya]

There are definitely large pods which appear to be designed to bolt on under or on the side of the aircraft, and that is definitely a weapons bay full of UCAVs- which might answer some questions.

As to which other design I am channelling, it's mainly when I see the graphic of the aircraft from above, but the other design was black. I'm definitely thinking American and not a fighter, but no matter.