Taiwan's indigenous submarine

Scott Kenny said:
Neither am I. But lithium batteries have about 5x the power density compared to lead-acid, whether by volume or by mass, and can be charged or discharged much faster.

So for any sub that isn't nuclear powered, there's really no reason not to use lithium batteries. They're just that much better. Even nuclear powered subs would likely prefer lithium batteries, since that means you don't have to dive the well to take specific gravities of the electrolyte and can rely on cell-monitoring software instead. Nuclear subs would also benefit from the additional storage capacity, but not as much as conventionally-powered subs would.
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Lithium batteries have many potential issues, most notably thermal runaway and poor cold water charging. Most certainly not with the risks as backup batteries for a SSN or SSBN. Lead acid batteries make wonderful ballast and are universally available.

One particular country has employed the optimal chemistry for lithium submarine batteries, as well as leading in lithium mining and processing technology and has exclusive access to the one particular rare earth that is vital for cold temperature charging. For everyone else, there are huge strategic, performance and safety issues.
 
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Josh_TN said:
I am not aware of any submarine with LiB outside the newest Japanese models. I would not expect lithium to be a feature on Chinese or Taiwanese boats without one or the other making a big deal of it, though I admit to not having my finger on the pulse of either country's submarine development.
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212 NFS and DACH class batch ii
 
Josh_TN said:
Had not heard that about the new 212s. What is DACH?
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Oh, I meant Dosan Anchang Ho aka KSS-III batch ii. I took the initials since it's quite a long name.

Also, I haven't included it since it's just a plan at this point, but NG also offers Scorpéne Evo with LiB.
 
www.upmedia.mg

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Things are not looking good.

ROCN allegedly had a very optimistic testing and evaluation scheudle, which, by the things are turning out, will not be met. The boat will not be operational until 2029.

More than 70 requirements weren't met during a harbour acceptance test. This will delay the whole process. Add to that, there's another source of headache in regards to test and evaluation equipment they've leased from the US. Now that the whole process is being set back, the equipment can't be used within the leasing timeline, so the scheme would need to be rearranged.

ROCN also doesn't really know how and who to set up the test and evaluation process guidelines. Blame shifting is also in play.

If you rush things and skip valuable experiences instead of taking one step after the other, one's to expect a rough road ahead.

It would've been great had ROCN started out with building smaller subs two or three decades earlier, and then proceed to bigger and more sophisticated designs like what they want from IDS, but since they've sat and waited for the opportunity to come their way for 4 decades at this point, they've got no other choice it seems.

Corruption scandal regarding Kuang Hua Plan II really was a killing blow.
 
Apologies if this is a bit off topic, but considering how heavily Taiwan would be outgunned by China in an all out shooting war, perhaps instead of building a small fleet of large submarines, they should have adopted the North Korean approach and built a massive fleet of midget subs that could have been fielded more quickly ?

I would imagine with well trained crews and proper tactics a large fleet of midget subs could wreak havoc on any amphibious assault mission.
 
alberchico said:
Apologies if this is a bit off topic, but considering how heavily Taiwan would be outgunned by China in an all out shooting war, perhaps instead of building a small fleet of large submarines, they should have adopted the North Korean approach and built a massive fleet of midget subs that could have been fielded more quickly ?

I would imagine with well trained crews and proper tactics a large fleet of midget subs could wreak havoc on any amphibious assault mission.
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I think that's a valid question. Compared to Yellow Sea, where most of North Korea' midget subs are deployed, Taiwan Strait is very similar in terms of its shallow depth and turbulent sea state.

Though I think IDS is tasked for something else. Chinese carrier task forces are going to be tasked with maneuvering and flanking Taiwan from East and South China Sea. I think IDS would play a critical role in area denial of Chinese carrier TF in those flanks.

Considering how densely protected Taiwan Strait is in terms of various surface to surface platforms and air to ship missiles, GBAD, as well as various surveillance platforms including E-2s that could handle both surface and aerial threats, I think it is fair to assume the above.

Though from an industrial capability stand point, starting off from a midget submarine and climbing up the latter to more capable systems step-by-step would've obviously been much more ideal. Though they've missed that bus a long long time ago.
 
something more short ranged and prolific would seem to be a better idea. At this CB point it would not necessarily have to be manned.
 
Josh_TN said:
something more short ranged and prolific would seem to be a better idea. At this CB point it would not necessarily have to be manned.
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Robo-subs!

"The "Huilong" UUV, a collaborative effort between Taiwan's National Chung-Shan Institute of Science and Technology (NCSIST) and Lungteh Shipbuilding, has already undergone two sea trials. The newly surfaced images, taken during its current dry-dock operations, clearly display the bow with two square-shaped torpedo launch tube openings, arranged symmetrically. One of these tubes had its hatch open, and nearby, two yellow U-shaped cradles were observed, likely intended for loading or testing torpedoes."

See:

armyrecognition.com

Taiwan's Huilong unmanned submarine revealed with hidden torpedo launch capabilities

Taiwan's Huilong unmanned submarine revealed with hidden torpedo launch capabilities.
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
 
dumpster4 said:
Robo-subs!

"The "Huilong" UUV, a collaborative effort between Taiwan's National Chung-Shan Institute of Science and Technology (NCSIST) and Lungteh Shipbuilding, has already undergone two sea trials. The newly surfaced images, taken during its current dry-dock operations, clearly display the bow with two square-shaped torpedo launch tube openings, arranged symmetrically. One of these tubes had its hatch open, and nearby, two yellow U-shaped cradles were observed, likely intended for loading or testing torpedoes."

See:

armyrecognition.com

Taiwan's Huilong unmanned submarine revealed with hidden torpedo launch capabilities

Taiwan's Huilong unmanned submarine revealed with hidden torpedo launch capabilities.
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
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I am a co little skeptical that is an unmanned platform. But certainly there are smaller, unmanned options that would at least be useful for mining, if direct attack is too challenging an activity for an unsupervised platform.
 
More on the Huilong UUV:

www.taiwanplus.com

New Photos Reveal Potential Combat Capabilities of Taiwan's Huilong UUV

Military enthusiasts have captured photos of Taiwan’s domestically developed "Huilong" unmanned underwater vehicle (UUV) with two torpedo tubes, revealing potential combat capabilities. Defense analysts say the vessel can be deployed by submarines.
www.taiwanplus.com www.taiwanplus.com

www.armyrecognition.com

Taiwan Unveils Torpedo Launch Tube of Huilong Unmanned Underwater Vehicle

Taiwan Unveils Torpedo Launch Tube of Huilong Unmanned Underwater Vehicle.
www.armyrecognition.com www.armyrecognition.com
 
dumpster4 said:
Robo-subs!

"The "Huilong" UUV, a collaborative effort between Taiwan's National Chung-Shan Institute of Science and Technology (NCSIST) and Lungteh Shipbuilding, has already undergone two sea trials. The newly surfaced images, taken during its current dry-dock operations, clearly display the bow with two square-shaped torpedo launch tube openings, arranged symmetrically. One of these tubes had its hatch open, and nearby, two yellow U-shaped cradles were observed, likely intended for loading or testing torpedoes."

See:

armyrecognition.com

Taiwan's Huilong unmanned submarine revealed with hidden torpedo launch capabilities

Taiwan's Huilong unmanned submarine revealed with hidden torpedo launch capabilities.
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
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The pic in the story at the link in the quote has the caption:
Artist rendering of a submarine. (Picture source: Generated by AI)

So not real.

The image in dumpster4's next post (#52), the ones in the link I posted, and the image I posted are the actual UUV being discussed.
 
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