Sukhoi Su-57 flight testing, development & operations [2012-current]

[TSARb]

I can see there is some differences between serated petals, tnx . That engine is ?

...is photographed at the Salut's fab.

 

[stealthflanker]

Well, clearly there are still many who confused between Salyut and Saturn engine.

Current Su-57 engine are made by NPP Saturn, While NPP Salyut instead continue development of AL-31F lines making FM series and FN for China.

 

[Avimimus]

New engines are not made so quickly, this is work for another 15 years. The letter that you read as the letter M is not it, it is 2 letters L in Russian transcription Л. That stands for Flying Lab (летающая лаборатория). English is not my native language, sorry for the mistakes.

Your English is better than many of us native speakers!

 

[Willythekid]

HD wallpaper



This image has already made my whole year!

 

[Squirrel]

That Salyut nozzle, they proposed AL-31FM3 and a follow on for PAK-FA but Sukhoi chose Saturn. Salyut nozzle clearly vectors differently from AL-41F1 and AL-31FP style nozzle.

First tnx for the info about AL-31MF3/nozzle.In the meantime I corrected those numbers in the previous comment ( from 1164 to 1461).About metallic /non-metallic structural materials of Sukhois.Interestingly, Su-27S has very light and strong Al-Li Alloy 1420 also, besides V95/T and Dural and % of Al Alloys in the empty weight is about 50%. About 30% of the empty weight is from Ti Alloys ( main one is OT-4) . Unlike MiG-29, Su-27S has almost no polymer composites at all. They are only used in the radome.Su-27S is in fact an 'all metallic' fighter with metallic main and skin structure . The empty weight is about 16.5 tons and Su-27 is heavier then F-15A/C almost 4 tons.On the other side, new T-50/Su-57 is from the very beginning constructed from light and strong structural materials: Al Alloys ( Al-Li, maybe 1420,1441? then V95T etc) which has about 50% in the empty weight of the serial Su-57,like Su-27S . Polymer composites with 20-25% and Ti Alloys ( VT22,VT23 ? ) about 20%, Steel Alloys and other materials up to 10%.

It is certain that Su-57 has strengthened structure from the beginning and from the 2nd stage ,Sukhoi designers tried to lighten it even more with the V-1461 Al Alloy. As it was written in the book ,they failed to do that but obviously that Alloy found application in the airframe. So we have a situation where they increased weight with that big cross metallic ( obviously Al Alloy) skin part of the centroplane and at the same time decreased it with application of 1461 in some non-load bearing parts.About structural strengthening ,yes there must be that around those FWC,centroplane section etc.Those FWC's are in fact big empty spaces ( 4.5x1x0.7m ? ) so Su-57S has much more 'empty volume' than Su-27S. Another comparison e.g. Su-57's air intakes are from Al Alloys, on Su-27 they are from Ti/Steel. So besides all that structural strengthening Su-57 must have very light empty weight.

1420 and 1441 are 2nd gen Al -Li Alloys, 1461 and 1469 are 3rd gen .There is e.g. also 1481. About Al matrix composites there are many of them like :Ti-VKA1, Al-Ni-La etc.

https://viam.ru/news/2661

Now why I have opinion that serial Su-57(S) has the same if not even less empty weight then Su-27S.From lighter engines via lighter control systems parts and components,avionics at all,fuel and hydro-systems to lighter structural materials and components.Must keep in mind 25% less details ,big empty space with that FWC/UWC's .When I see that vertical stabilizers, it seems they are twice lighter then those on Su-27S.Maybe I am wrong but I think those 'e.w.-numbers' for the public are very questionable.

 

[Squirrel]

@PeregrineFalcon
This is one very interesting Soviet video from the Le Bourget 1989 and that famous flight demonstration on Su-27S by Sukhoi test pilot Victor Pugachev. Take off weight was 22 tons ( so with about 5.5 tons of fuel,'normal fuel weight'). Besides famous 'Cobra' ,Victor made that 360° turn within 10-15 sec.

Су-27 в Ле-Бурже. 1989 / Debut of the Su-27 at the Le Bourget - Paris Air Show in 1989​

''The first public demonstration of the Su-27 at the Le Bourget Air Show in 1989. The film of the TV studio of the Sukhoi Design Bureau, with comments by a specialist of the Design Bureau.''

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_lzjVkVm-U


Su-57 demo-flight at Zhuhai Air Show ,normal fuel weight .

Su-57 crazy flying demonstration at ZhuHai Airshow 2024​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iaYyYFicMw


and this one....

Fighter Pilot Reacts to Russian SU-57 Performance at Zhuhai Airshow​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsg-4Uk8Bzg

 

[Galaxy]

New poster here. I’m very existed about the new engine, I honestly did not think that the SU-57 was ever going to get a squared nozzle engine given how conservative the Russian design philosophy is. I must say the build quality of these new engines blew me away, it’s much better than any other Russian engine and at least as good or better than western engines (or at least the built quality of the nozzles).

A few observations, the seems between the engine and fuselage is almost nonexistent. Even if you take an F-22 and compare the engine figment and seems, the AL-51F1 is far superior, I also notice some type of vents, I would assume it helps with cooling? In any case this engine was the right choice even if some thrust is lost, the new engine will lower RCS from all aspects plus reduce IR emissions thus improve survivability. Looks very alien/sci fi

I just wish they got rid of that disgusting digital cam pixel paint. It looks so tacky and juvenile, like something a teenager would do to their car. The big blocky pixels just look bad, especially around the cockpit. It really just breaks up and distracts from the shape and curves of the aircraft. It’s like a makeup artist hiding the true shape of a face.

I wish they would just do one solid color like a shade of grey or even white like on the 053, yes it has pixelation but it doesn’t go beyond the wings:







I’m surprised no one at Sukhoi seen the base coat and said, wow that looks slick and it’s cheaper and quicker to get off the production line.

Instead we are stuck with Fast and Furious paint schemes

 

[haavarla]

But why does "the larger aircraft" need engines whose thrust nozzles can rotate around the longitudinal axis ? See at 0:32 in the video (please view at 0.25x speed).

ooh i don't know... perhaps that huge Russian Drone could use a flat nozzle. What about the new Russian Bomber.
It does not need the TVC obviously. But the nozzle itself.

 

[Squirrel]

There is some very interesting details about the engine with that new stealth flat rotating nozzle.As mentioned before, E.Marchukov said in 2019 that they developed new three-stream adaptive cycle ( 6th gen) engine in the same time as they develop 'second stage' engine Izd 30 later known as AL-51F.

Transl of citation:

''Plus stream , plus generation

In parallel with the development of the second stage engine for the Su-57, designers are already creating the scientific and technical basis for the sixth generation engines.First of all, research is aimed at improving the specific characteristics of the power plant compared to fifth-generation engines.
According to Marchukov, such a project involves adding a third external air stream to the power plant design. Thanks to this, it is possible to achieve low specific fuel consumption at supersonic cruising mode.
When flying at subsonic speeds, the third stream will be open. Thanks to this, the air flow from the fan will pass through the second and third stream and the engine will operate almost like a turbofan power plant with a high bypass ratio. In this mode, the power plant will have slightly greater thrust and significantly lower fuel consumption.
During supersonic flight, the third stream will be completely closed, and the second partially, due to which the engine will operate as a power plant with a low bypass ratio.''

On the ICAM-2020 held on May 2021 ,Marchukov said some very interesting details about that new engine.

International Conference on aviation motors

icam.ciam.ru

''On May 18, 2021, AEX.RU - A. Lulka Design Bureau - a subsidiary of"ODK-UMPO"is working on the formation of a scientific and technical backbone to create a sixth-generation engine for combat aviation. "This is a three-contour scheme, which the whole world is doing," Evgeny Marchukov, general designer of the Design Bureau, said at the ICAM-2020 conference. This is reported by the press service of the MAKS Air Show.
According to him, two options for implementing this scheme are being developed. The first stand tests of the demonstrator are due to take place in 2021. Using a three-contour scheme will allow to modernize the AL-41F-1 engine, improving its characteristics while maintaining dimensions.''

In fact,new Russian 6th gen engine ( three-stream adaptive cycle engine) was developed and is based on AL-41F-1 not on AL-51F( or F-1 never mind).

Now,let us hear what Marchukov said about engines from 1:44:20. It was at international scientific-technical conference from ODK achievements on Samara's University held on June 23 2023.First he mentioned AL-41F-1S for Su-35S and exported Su-35 ( from 1:44:50) .After that he talked about AL-41F-1 as '5-' gen engine because that engine does not provide supercruise capability to Su-57 ( from 1:45:52) After that he mentioned new Izdeliye 177S as 5th gen engine only for export ( for the Su-30SME,Su-30MKA,MKI,MKM etc ,from 1:46:32 ). Then he talked about Izdeliye 117B as non-AB engine for UCAV S-70 Hunter-B ( from 1:47:30). After that he talked about Izd 30 even he didn't mention designation and some technical details about it ( from 1:48:48). From 1:50:10 he talked about ODK's engines development phases and trends especially about 6 gen engine and technological achievements.Then from 1:51:28 he mentioned about that third stream as technology for 6 gen engines.In this part he talked about Izd 117 as basis for that new engine as they started 'from the 0' to develop such engine. Then from 1:52:17 we can see blured pic with that 'green engine' on the screen.

He said that it is 'stendovy variant dvigately' or it is the engine for static tests.One of the achieved results was 5% less consumption on cruise mode and he hope that in the real flight conditions it will be up to 10%. It is 'Product with third stream' as he mentioned'. It is of course adaptive cycle engine. From 1:53:17 there was story about its components and parts ( even meta-materials).Story about this new flat nozzle started from 1:54:13. He told that losses of thrust are not so high.Nozzle is made 90% from so called additive technology.He told that he hope nozzle will start flight tests during 2023. From 1:55:44 we can hear some details about other parts and components of the 6 gen engine like ceramic chamber e.g ( that nozzle is also made from ceramic materials) and other metallic parts.According to what he said then ,ceramic chamber was on static tests at the end of 2023.

Source: https://m.vk.com/video-69812_456239...nNk3lHRyO-ipIc-TTA_aem_rAkjogYjr1rJVv-a8s65Xw

Although this is only an illustration,engine with new flat nozzle is completely different in comparison with AL-51F-1 / AL-41F-1.

1000021637

Изображение 1000021637 расположенное в Radikal.HOST (Радикал.ру)

radikal.host

 

[QuadroFX]

Flat nozzle has been installed on two prototypes: T-50KNS(#057) and T-50-2(#052). T-50-2 is already flying.

 

[Acatomic]

Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868297048644112457

View: https://x.com/la_souris_da/status/1868297048644112457?s=61

 

[QuadroFX]

And yes, have you ever seen a fighter jet perform aerobatics using TVC with the afterburner on? I see just now!

 

[Galaxy]

I have been reading thrust numbers, I assume the ~37,000lbs thrust is the total output with the roughly 5-6% loss due to square nozzles? Actual thrust is ~39,000lbs. Not bad considering it’s slightly smaller than the F119 engine and massively smaller than the F135 engine.

 

[QuadroFX]

Some caps

 

[Ainen]

I just wish they got rid of that disgusting digital cam pixel paint. It looks so tacky and juvenile, like something a teenager would do to their car. The big blocky pixels just look bad, especially around the cockpit. It really just breaks up and distracts from the shape and curves of the aircraft. It’s like a makeup artist hiding the true shape of a face.

Anecdotal evidence says they thoroughly tested it between test airframes and choose the best working one.
It isn't about style.

 

[Galaxy]

Anecdotal evidence says they thoroughly tested it between test airframes and choose the best working one.
It isn't about style.

Painting digital camo has no functionality whatsoever. Zero, none…it’s a waste of resources and money to mask off and use multiple colors.

On another note, it looks like they finally added serrated edges to the rear engine nacelles. A welcome and needed addition if they really want to lower RCS. Hopefully they do something about the square access hatches and IRST-T, the IRST-T is just plain laziness and definitely adds to RCS and that is not an option but fact.

 

[QuadroFX]

TVC with AB on:

 

[Squirrel]

TVC with AB on:

This is pic of T-50-1 from the early period of flight testing .Very unusual and interesting positions of the nozzles in the AB mode. Nozzle of the left engine was in neutral position ,nozzle of the right engine was deflected downwards.Also interesting deflections of LEVCONs.

 

[QuadroFX]

Manufactury:

 

[QuadroFX]

Flat nozzle moving:

 

[Squirrel]

Painting digital camo has no functionality whatsoever. Zero, none…it’s a waste of resources and money to mask off and use multiple colors.

On another note, it looks like they finally added serrated edges to the rear engine nacelles. A welcome and needed addition if they really want to lower RCS. Hopefully they do something about the square access hatches and IRST-T, the IRST-T is just plain laziness and definitely adds to RCS and that is not an option but fact.

Pls, take a look at sequences from 15:28 ....

From T-50 to Su-57. The most modern and the most classified Russian 5th generation airplane. Part 2​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDXNDA5xuS4

 

[QuadroFX]

View attachment 752428

Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868297048644112457

View: https://x.com/la_souris_da/status/1868297048644112457?s=61

Not a single word was said about the AL-51F in this video.

 

[Ainen]

Painting digital camo has no functionality whatsoever. Zero, none…it’s a waste of resources and money to mask off and use multiple colors.

Feel free to send feedback to Sukhoi, what can I say.

 

[Acatomic]

@QuadroFX
Ok. I just put the source for that screenshot, that’s all

 

[Galaxy]

Pls, take a look at sequences from 15:28 ....

It’s the silliest thing i ever heard. Again putting some crappy digital camo won’t make an aircraft harder to see. Come on now, use common sense. It’s like Sukhoi still using that ancient green paint inside the cockpit claimed it has some benefits when MIG, MI, Lockheed, Rafale, ect do just fine using grey.

Sukhoi is know for dumpster fire camo jobs like the Smurf green and black SU-34, the half white, half grey SU-24, strange SU-35 prototype cammo combos, I’m surprised the MOD doesn’t order them to stop the stupidity as their paint jobs are always different and something out of Fast and Furious. Someone at Sukhoi needs to lose their job for such idiotic waste of resources.

 

[QuadroFX]

MFD and HMDS

 

[Life of Tyo]

more Su-57 serial on video https://www.1tv.ru/doc/pro-armiyu/v...ntalnyy-film-k-85-letiyu-okb-suhogo-i-okb-mig ( tvc 2D engine review same video)

 

[Galaxy]

That helmet looks great, the Zsh-3 should have been phased out long ago. In never looked like it had good ergonomics especially the oxygen mask that was far too large, far too long and interfered with downward head mobility.

Hopefully they fit the new helmet with a proper oxygen mask. Other than that I would be curious as to the new capabilities. Looks like it has a built in HUD and all around sensors, I would guess they slaved it to multiple sensors such as IRST

 

[Deino]

more Su-57 serial on video https://www.1tv.ru/doc/pro-armiyu/v...ntalnyy-film-k-85-letiyu-okb-suhogo-i-okb-mig ( tvc 2D engine review same video)
View attachment 752471

The link is dead!??

 

[QuadroFX]

It is old ones, already delivered this or past year.

 

[Life of Tyo]

The link is dead!??

maybe you should use VPN, i can open the link without VPN

 

[Galaxy]

I noticed something about the nozzle material. The black section looks like a textured composite, it looks like Saturn spared no expenses. The fitment looks very tight too and the exhaust flaps when opened are properly sealed off unlike the F-22 flaps that have the internals exposed. I do like the F-22 but this really pissed off many F-22 fanboys

 

[Squirrel]

I noticed something about the nozzle material. The black section looks like a textured composite, it looks like Saturn spared no expenses. The fitment looks very tight too and the exhaust flaps when opened are properly sealed off unlike the F-22 flaps that have the internals exposed. I do like the F-22 but this really pissed off many F-22 fanboys

Nozzle is made from ceramics using so called additive technology.

 

[Squirrel]

That helmet looks great, the Zsh-3 should have been phased out long ago. In never looked like it had good ergonomics especially the oxygen mask that was far too large, far too long and interfered with downward head mobility.

Hopefully they fit the new helmet with a proper oxygen mask. Other than that I would be curious as to the new capabilities. Looks like it has a built in HUD and all around sensors, I would guess they slaved it to multiple sensors such as IRST

ZSh-3 is а oldtimer in fact and even ZSh-5 is rare. They have ZSh-7(AP) as actual and of course new one ZSh-10.That helmet is newer one.

Авиационный шлем ЗШ-10 для самолета Су-57 (Т-50).​

https://dzen.ru/a/X9EVBnXjKDHY0Jo7

Details about the new helmet from 19:10 min .

From T-50 to Su-57. The most modern and the most classified Russian 5th generation airplane. Part 3​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrZ8knrxtVM&t=1318s


Even 40 years ago ,MiG-29 and Su-27 pilots could 'slaved' their IRST sensors with HMS 'Schel-3UM' (NVU-2M).

Sequences from 1:25:48 ....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCup20qZCvQ

 

[totoro]

So those production line photos...like this one attached below.
Is there any way to try to estimate production volume using such photos? Like, relying on completeness level of each airframe visible, is it possible to say that certain aiframes are 6 months or less away from delivery? And thst certain other airframes are 12 months or less away?
Any other time period estimate or comment or info or opinion are welcome.

 

[Geo]

The link is dead!??

Try it in any way other than through a large operator. Some local connection, it also works in the EU.

 

[Tier]

Single eyepiece

Nope. It's a mirror

 

[F119Doctor]

I noticed something about the nozzle material. The black section looks like a textured composite, it looks like Saturn spared no expenses. The fitment looks very tight too and the exhaust flaps when opened are properly sealed off unlike the F-22 flaps that have the internals exposed. I do like the F-22 but this really pissed off many F-22 fanboys

You do know that the F-22 nozzles are in the shutdown maintenance position in the photo? The divergent flap sides are fully hidden by the sidewall when the engine is operating.

 

[Galaxy]

You do know that the F-22 nozzles are in the shutdown maintenance position in the photo? The divergent flap sides are fully hidden by the sidewall when the engine is operating.

Even the slightest movement of the horizontal stabilizer causes the nozzles to move, and even if they move just a little the side wall of the nozzle is visible and if its visible to a camera it’s visible to a radar

 

[flateric]

You'd be really lucky to catch a moment and angle to see flaps in this position on your radar.