Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II [2012-current]

Ronny said:
QuadroFX said:
On a first and second photo there is a TV-camera similar to the one installed on the S-70(Su-57-053 prototype is a flying lab used in the S-70 program). On a third photo there is a 101KS-U02 electro-optical sensor.
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So that TV camera won't be used in production version of Su-57?
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It wont. It is a T-50-3 and S-70 specific thing, camera used for taxiing. The closest thing would be the 101KS-P sensor at the tip of the left "fast weaponbay".
 
flanker said:
Ronny said:
QuadroFX said:
On a first and second photo there is a TV-camera similar to the one installed on the S-70(Su-57-053 prototype is a flying lab used in the S-70 program). On a third photo there is a 101KS-U02 electro-optical sensor.
Click to expand...
So that TV camera won't be used in production version of Su-57?
Click to expand...
It wont. It is a T-50-3 and S-70 specific thing, camera used for taxiing. The closest thing would be the 101KS-P sensor at the tip of the left "fast weaponbay".
Click to expand...
so what about the small thingy next to the DIRCM turret under the Su-57-054?
Capture.PNG
 
News from this morning, first use of 4 Su-57 networked together:

These fighters are combined into a unified information network, with communication skills, real-time transmission of positioning data and target parameters “, the news agency TASS an unnamed source in the Russian air force was now mentioned.
Click to expand...

News first appeared on TASS and then RIA, but apparently later they were removed.
 
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How does the unified network thing work? Like 1 Su-57 detects a target and another Su-57 who isn't in range of the target to detect it now also knows where it is and can target it because the 1st Su-57 detected it? So Radar sharing essentially?
 
hhot97 said:
How does the unified network thing work? Like 1 Su-57 detects a target and another Su-57 who isn't in range of the target to detect it now also knows where it is and can target it because the 1st Su-57 detected it? So Radar sharing essentially?
Click to expand...

I think that it will be a similar system as to the one that is on the MiG-31 where they can share target information by working as a mini-AWACS.
 
hhot97 said:
How does the unified network thing work? Like 1 Su-57 detects a target and another Su-57 who isn't in range of the target to detect it now also knows where it is and can target it because the 1st Su-57 detected it? So Radar sharing essentially?
Click to expand...
Network centric warfare is much wider than radar info exchange. The units in the battle network exchanging by all tactical info they got from the sensors each of them have: RADAR, EOTS, ESM/ELINT, triangulation via passive radio-location etc.
 
LMFS said:
From what I recall, based on the production plan we saw during a MoD visit to KnAAZ, that was 4 last year, 4 this one, 7 in 2023 and 12 in 2024. But then we heard that they expected to have 22 units by 2024, which does not really add up with those numbers, I personally doubt they will bother rising the production to 1 sqd per year just before they switch to the second stage standard, so maybe the production by 2024 remains by 6-7 units like in 2023. BTW there were rumours that the early deliveries this year were delayed units from 2021, but we don't really know when they were delivered to the VKS. Any analysis of the past or future production remains highly speculative by now.
Click to expand...
The delivery figure of 12 aircraft in 2022 came from a statement from Yury Slyusar last year.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1415692782937772037
View: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1415692782937772037?s=20&t=_IBgNWYSnH7zmXK_yWzawQ


I believe 12 Su-57s per year represents the production goal. Frankly, I question the wisdom of delaying production for the development of a newer variant, which may be subject to delays given the current circumstances. Having meaningful numbers of aircraft in service would allow the development of TTPs for operational use and also the integration of the aircraft into the force structure. In any case, I wouldn't surprised if the current production plans are now more difficult to realize given the likely disruption of the supply chain.
 
I do wonder how much different the Su-57 is from the M model.

Izd 30 is expected to be a drop in with minimal modification but the new updated avionics systems, possible changes in light of new experiences and stuff like electric actuators instead of hydraulic will certainly result in airframe differences.

Certainly the differences may well be minimal enough to make updating existing aircraft to the new standard easier. Although in aviation simple is difficult, especially on such complex aircraft.
 
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Scar said:
hhot97 said:
How does the unified network thing work? Like 1 Su-57 detects a target and another Su-57 who isn't in range of the target to detect it now also knows where it is and can target it because the 1st Su-57 detected it? So Radar sharing essentially?
Click to expand...
Network centric warfare is much wider than radar info exchange. The units in the battle network exchanging by all tactical info they got from the sensors each of them have: RADAR, EOTS, ESM/ELINT, triangulation via passive radio-location etc.
Click to expand...
Add Okhotnik to the network node which has more capable sensors and suddenly you reduce the need for A-50/100.

RuAF will look very different in 2030.
 
icyplanetnhc (Steve) said:
The delivery figure of 12 aircraft in 2022 came from a statement from Yury Slyusar last year.

I believe 12 Su-57s per year represents the production goal. Frankly, I question the wisdom of delaying production for the development of a newer variant, which may be subject to delays given the current circumstances. Having meaningful numbers of aircraft in service would allow the development of TTPs for operational use and also the integration of the aircraft into the force structure. In any case, I wouldn't surprised if the current production plans are now more difficult to realize given the likely disruption of the supply chain.
Click to expand...
Given the figure contradicts official information and the transcription of Slyusar's words does not mention the year 2022, I would defer to Russian speakers to confirm or deny, otherwise I assume there was talk about the production goal of 1 sqd per year (fully in line with what stated above and previous known information), with the journo adding the odd info about year 2022. The line does not look ready to reach that value yet, with several complex production improvement programs in their early stages right now.

About current circumstances and their influence in the fulfilment of the Sate Armaments Program, read for yourself:

Ïåðâûé çàìïðåä êîëëåãèè ÂÏÊ: ÐÔ âîñïîëíÿåò çàïàñû îðóæèÿ è âîåííîé òåõíèêè -

Èíòåðôàêñ - Àãåíòñòâî Âîåííûõ Íîâîñòåé - èíôîðìàöèÿ î âîåííî-ïîëèòè÷åñêîé ñèòóàöèè â ñòðàíå, î äåÿòåëüíîñòè Ìèíèñòåðñòâà îáîðîíû è äðóãèõ ñèëîâûõ ìèíèñòåðñòâ, î ñèòóàöèè â Ðîññèéñêîé àðìèè è Âîåííî-ïðîìûøëåííîì êîìïëåêñå Ðîññèè.
www.militarynews.ru

Russian defence industry places the top priority in having their supply chains covered in case of a conflict (they never stop emphasizing this aspect), that is one of the reasons why we see the SMO now and not in 2014.

As to the integration of the Su-57 in the force, is in full swing, with very convenient real war experience being added right now, including network integration of multi aircraft grouping. It would be of course better with more units, but the current amount of airframes is already being put to use:


BTW, it is not about delaying the production but about giving time for KnAAZ and the VKS to get their work done before ramping up. As said many times, the air force is equipped with modern aircraft and there is no hurry to substitute them asap. But I would concede that for environments like the one in Ukraine, with AD present but not fully integrated, a plane like Su-57 is advantageous and it may well be that MoD decides to place more priority in its production, together with Okhotnik. I assume that LTS (especially in UCAV version) will also be decisively prioritized after the current combat experience.

Cannonfodder43 said:
I do wonder how much different the Su-57 is from the M model.
Click to expand...
I assume from the outside quite little will change, mainly the nozzle, but probably not much more.
 
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Hello friends, can someone from you help me to solve this mistery of aircrafts which was in Syria, its 8th prototype number 509, but I dont know which registration number he get while he was in Syria.All I could find out is this video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJTCewLTCLE&ab_channel=%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8

and here on this screenshot all what I looking for is that we togetehr solve mistery of last number of registration:



and few screenshots...and nothing else, other aircraft which was with 509 was 511,and he get registration 81775,but whihch registration was on 509?Please help...
Can anyone clear the photo etc....PLease help
 
Shoigu announced the completion of tests of air-to-air missiles for the Su-57

July 5, 2022, 14: 02

In 2022, tests should end and serial deliveries of medium-and short-range air-to-air missiles for the fifth-generation Su-57 fighter should begin. This was announced on Tuesday, July 5, by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

"This year we plan to complete state tests of missiles and put the first serial batches into operation," the minister said at a conference call in Moscow.

The missiles, he stressed, " are designed to equip the modern Su-57 aircraft complex and other carriers." They will enable fighters to destroy small targets that use stealth technology.

"The use of new weapons will increase the combat effectiveness of carrier aircraft in an air standoff and increase the range of affected air targets, including small-sized ones and those made using stealth technology," the minister noted.

https://iz.ru/1359959/2022-07-05/sh...ii-ispytanii-raket-vozdukh-vozdukh-dlia-su-57
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/15127145
 
I wonder - how new?

FighterJock said:
hhot97 said:
How does the unified network thing work? Like 1 Su-57 detects a target and another Su-57 who isn't in range of the target to detect it now also knows where it is and can target it because the 1st Su-57 detected it? So Radar sharing essentially?
Click to expand...

I think that it will be a similar system as to the one that is on the MiG-31 where they can share target information by working as a mini-AWACS.
Click to expand...

The question is really the degree to which software integration well allow it to work as an array of four transmitters and four receivers forming a huge antenna for receiving returns... and how much this will improve their ability to detect stealth objects?
 
Now I have heard that the active array radar for the su-57 can track up to 60 targets simultaneously. A smaller amount of sources say 30. Could it be that the main aesa radar can track 30 targets while each side aesa array can track up to 15 targets each, making 60 targets in total that can be observed?

Also great news about the missiles. They mention medium and small range missiles. Could this be the R-77m and R-74m2? Or potentially the clean sheet IR missile design?
 
I believe it's a clean sheet IR missile design.

I hope it's a CUDA sized missile with a IR homing head and a version which can be launched by ejection.
 
Acatomic said:
@paralay

In the new age of network centric warfare? Yes.

Just because you can't engage it yourself doesn't mean you can't pass along information to somebody who can.
Click to expand...

There may also be benefits in distributing missiles across targets (i.e. keeping too many allied aircraft from engaging on target while ignoring the others) and helping keep track of any Allied aircraft (missiles are reaching a point where it will be possible to fire them even if there are allied aircraft in the forward hemisphere). So that kind of integrated situational awareness and continuous tracking is really useful.

I also wonder if some of that capability could be used to scan and track missiles? Part of a missile warning defensive suite? Missiles do produce radar returns... so that could make it valuable to have that extra tacking capability.

That said, I do wonder if the most important component is actually the scan capability and if the tracking capability implies anything about the scanning capability. Does the improves software an large AESA array allow for allocating more power to scan when tracking fewer targets? Is it possible to use search algorithms to scan areas of space in more detail to try to follow-up on a possible return from a stealth aircraft? Using the track capability to map out an area of space and search it more thoroughly? I have no idea.
 
paralay said:
TMA1 said:
Now I have heard that the active array radar for the su-57 can track up to 60 targets simultaneously. A smaller amount of sources say 30. Could it be that the main aesa radar can track 30 targets while each side aesa array can track up to 15 targets each, making 60 targets in total that can be observed?
Click to expand...
Does this give a significant advantage in combat if there are no more than 16 missiles on board?
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Yes. It's so much more convenient to be able to choose without dealing with hard limitations(which also is a switchology of sorts) just around the maximum number.
 
@QuadroFX

Not to get too off topic but network centric warfare is fast becoming the norm whether some people like it or not.

I see this as an evolution of IADS, and I'm pretty sure that back in the day people were also complaining that IADS was very expensive concept - it was/is but it had to be done if you wanted to survive.
 
I always thought that it's an arbitrary limitation mostly by software,and not processing power Because APG -77 has track ability of 100 and its processing based on mid-90 electronics. Su-57 has much newer hardware.
 
From today's report from the TASS:

"The multifunctional stealthy high-precision aviation cruise missile of the new generation Kh-69 is designed for combat use as part of a promising aviation complex - a promising multi-role fighter, as well as Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others... "
tass.ru

В КТРВ рассказали, какие истребители смогут применять новую крылатую ракету Х-69 - ТАСС

Ее смогут использовать все современные истребители России, сообщили в корпорации
tass.ru tass.ru

Is this some nonsense?
 
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Geo said:
From today's report from the TASS:

"The multifunctional stealthy high-precision aviation cruise missile of the new generation Kh-69 is designed for combat use as part of a promising aviation complex - a promising multi-role fighter, as well as from Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others... "
tass.ru

В КТРВ рассказали, какие истребители смогут применять новую крылатую ракету Х-69 - ТАСС

Ее смогут использовать все современные истребители России, сообщили в корпорации
tass.ru tass.ru

Is this some nonsense?
Click to expand...
Umm, no? Kh-69 is renamed Kh-59MK2.
 
Anduriel said:
Geo said:
From today's report from the TASS:

"The multifunctional stealthy high-precision aviation cruise missile of the new generation Kh-69 is designed for combat use as part of a promising aviation complex - a promising multi-role fighter, as well as from Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others... "
tass.ru

В КТРВ рассказали, какие истребители смогут применять новую крылатую ракету Х-69 - ТАСС

Ее смогут использовать все современные истребители России, сообщили в корпорации
tass.ru tass.ru

Is this some nonsense?
Click to expand...
Umm, no? Kh-69 is renamed Kh-59MK2.
Click to expand...
I mean ...a PROMISING MULTI-ROLE FIGHTER, as well as Su-57, Su-75...

Btw it's a quote from Tactical Missiles Corporation's release.
 
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Geo said:
From today's report from the TASS:

"The multifunctional stealthy high-precision aviation cruise missile of the new generation Kh-69 is designed for combat use as part of a promising aviation complex - a promising multi-role fighter, as well as Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others... "
tass.ru

В КТРВ рассказали, какие истребители смогут применять новую крылатую ракету Х-69 - ТАСС

Ее смогут использовать все современные истребители России, сообщили в корпорации
tass.ru tass.ru

Is this some nonsense?
Click to expand...
Lost in translation: The new missile will be used by all Russian prospective multirole fighters, including Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others.
 
Scar said:
Geo said:
From today's report from the TASS:

"The multifunctional stealthy high-precision aviation cruise missile of the new generation Kh-69 is designed for combat use as part of a promising aviation complex - a promising multi-role fighter, as well as Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others... "
tass.ru

В КТРВ рассказали, какие истребители смогут применять новую крылатую ракету Х-69 - ТАСС

Ее смогут использовать все современные истребители России, сообщили в корпорации
tass.ru tass.ru

Is this some nonsense?
Click to expand...
Lost in translation: The new missile will be used by all Russian prospective multirole fighters, including Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others.
Click to expand...

So one more time and in the original:

Многофункциональная малозаметная высокоточная авиационная крылатая ракета нового поколения Х-69 предназначена для боевого применения в составе перспективного авиационного комплекса - перспективного многоцелевого истребителя, А ТАКЖЕ с самолетов типа Су-57, Су-75...

Clear?
 
Geo said:
Scar said:
Geo said:
From today's report from the TASS:

"The multifunctional stealthy high-precision aviation cruise missile of the new generation Kh-69 is designed for combat use as part of a promising aviation complex - a promising multi-role fighter, as well as Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others... "
tass.ru

В КТРВ рассказали, какие истребители смогут применять новую крылатую ракету Х-69 - ТАСС

Ее смогут использовать все современные истребители России, сообщили в корпорации
tass.ru tass.ru

Is this some nonsense?
Click to expand...
Lost in translation: The new missile will be used by all Russian prospective multirole fighters, including Su-57, Su-75, Su-30MK, Su-34, Su-35, MiG-35, MiG-29K and others.
Click to expand...

So one more time and in the original:

Многофункциональная малозаметная высокоточная авиационная крылатая ракета нового поколения Х-69 предназначена для боевого применения в составе перспективного авиационного комплекса - перспективного многоцелевого истребителя, А ТАКЖЕ с самолетов типа Су-57, Су-75...

Clear?
Click to expand...
I translated the part in the beginning of the article. But you're right, it was lost not in translation but in the brain of KTRV representative or in the journalist's brain. The later is much more likely, IMO.
 
To make your task more interesting, I will say that original text has changed since morning...
 
flateric said:
To make your task more interesting, I will say that original text has changed since morning...
Click to expand...

In favor of clarifying the meaning of the message?

Or even with the intention of writing the exact name of the program - ПАК ПМИ?
 
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Geo said:

So one more time and in the original:

Многофункциональная малозаметная высокоточная авиационная крылатая ракета нового поколения Х-69 предназначена для боевого применения в составе перспективного авиационного комплекса - перспективного многоцелевого истребителя, А ТАКЖЕ с самолетов типа Су-57, Су-75...

Clear?
Click to expand...

Journo has mixed KTRV press-release text with an erlier text from an _old_ Kh-59M2 leaflet he has stolen from other journo.
In this leaflet, a mystery 'advanced aviation complex - a advanced multi-role fighter' is a PAK-PMI, more known as FGFA (then still barely alive).
 
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flateric said:
Geo said:

So one more time and in the original:

Многофункциональная малозаметная высокоточная авиационная крылатая ракета нового поколения Х-69 предназначена для боевого применения в составе перспективного авиационного комплекса - перспективного многоцелевого истребителя, А ТАКЖЕ с самолетов типа Су-57, Су-75...

Clear?
Click to expand...

Journo has mixed KTRV press-release text with an erlier text from an _old_ Kh-59M2 leaflet he has stolen from other journo.
In this leaflet, a mystery 'advanced aviation complex - a advanced multi-role fighter' is a PAK-PMI, more known as FGFA (then still barely alive).
Click to expand...

From today's photo by Michael Jerdev...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1559189570297729025
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/MuxelAero/status/1559189570297729025
 

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I wonder if 300km range is dictaded by export limitations or is ist real max. range of missile?
 
Knaaz expand the production facility to increase Su-57 production rate.

www.uacrussia.ru

Ростех наращивает производственные мощности для увеличения выпуска Су-57

Новости дочерних компаний ОАК, новости ДЗО
www.uacrussia.ru www.uacrussia.ru

Machine translation :
Rostec is increasing production capacity to increase the production of Su-57

Rostec United Aircraft Corporation is increasing its production capacity to increase the serial production of 5th generation fighters. On August 19, a ceremony of laying new facilities for testing Su-57 systems and equipment was held on the territory of the Gagarin KnAAZ flight test station.

The expansion of the production base of the flight test station of the aviation plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur involves the construction of a number of new facilities. First of all, a boathouse for testing on-board electronic equipment, a fuel box and a motor test station will be put into operation. Their construction is carried out at the expense of the United Aircraft Corporation.
"The UAC is fulfilling a large state contract – in the coming years, the Ministry of Defense needs to supply 76 Su-57 fighters. In order to produce the required number of aircraft efficiently and on time, we have started expanding and modernizing production facilities. Already in the second half of 2023, the new facilities of the KnAAZ flight test station should receive the first aircraft," said Vladimir Artyakov, First Deputy General Director of Rostec State Corporation.

At the ceremony of laying new buildings as part of the celebration of the Day of the Air Fleet of the Russian Federation and the 88th anniversary of the formation of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Yuri Gagarin, a commemorative capsule with a message to future generations of aircraft builders of Komsomolsk-on-Amur was placed in the foundation of one of the objects.

The ceremony was attended by the director of the branch of PJSC "UAC" — Gagarin KnAAZ Alexander Pekarsh, First Deputy Governor of the Khabarovsk Territory Maria Avilova, Deputy Commander of the 11th Army of the Russian Aerospace Forces Major General Vladimir Kulikov, the city administration, representatives of the Glavgosexpertiza branch, employees of the flight test station.

In addition, KnAAZ, as part of the program to increase the serial production of 5th generation fighters, will reconstruct capacities and expand production. These works will be implemented with funds from the federal budget.

"With the support of the state, a new building of the flight test station for the Su-57 will be built on the territory of the Gagarin KnAAZ, the third stage of electroplating production will begin, a major reconstruction of capacities for machining and heat treatment will begin," said Alexander Pekarsh, director of the branch of PJSC UAC - Gagarin KnAAZ.
 
Good things. and should have been that way sometime ago. LTS production might also take place there. Or maybe retooling the Su-35 line.
 

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