Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II [2012-current]

[sferrin]

North American Rockwell registered a near identical patent in 1968, related to their FX design.

https://www.google.com/patents/US3509568

This is for the FX that resulted in F-15? I'd be surprised if they were considering reducing RCS that far back.

You may have heard of this beast:



The losing competitor:



Both had features ahead of their time that appear right at home on today's stealth aircraft. I am QUITE certain they were working on reducing RCS that far back.

 

[FighterJock]

North American Rockwell registered a near identical patent in 1968, related to their FX design.

https://www.google.com/patents/US3509568

This is for the FX that resulted in F-15? I'd be surprised if they were considering reducing RCS that far back.

You may have heard of this beast:



The losing competitor:



Both had features ahead of their time that appear right at home on today's stealth aircraft. I am QUITE certain they were working on reducing RCS that far back.

The SR-71A did have an early form of RAM on the leading edges of the wings and on the chines, I did hear a rumor years back that if you hit a table with one of those RAM wedges the table would get a dent and there would be no damage to the wedge.

 

[sferrin]

North American Rockwell registered a near identical patent in 1968, related to their FX design.

https://www.google.com/patents/US3509568

This is for the FX that resulted in F-15? I'd be surprised if they were considering reducing RCS that far back.

You may have heard of this beast:



The losing competitor:



Both had features ahead of their time that appear right at home on today's stealth aircraft. I am QUITE certain they were working on reducing RCS that far back.

The SR-71A did have an early form of RAM on the leading edges of the wings and on the chines, I did hear a rumor years back that if you hit a table with one of those RAM wedges the table would get a dent and there would be no damage to the wedge.

That RAM went all the way around the wing to the rear. Kingfish had that as well. A close look at the Kingfish also shows expansion ramps in the exhaust that effectively shield the innards of the engine from the rear. The inlet looks like that of an F-22 flipped upside down. The sharp edge around the perimeter of Kingfish is reminiscent of what you see on almost every stealth aircraft. Same with the Blackbird. Both designs had inward canted tails.

 

[FighterJock]

Thanks for the extra info sferrin. B)

 

[Trident]

I believe F-111 and TSR.2 featured RAM coatings inside the intake ducts, both mid-1960s.

The NA patent is still notable in that it applies to a fighter rather than a reconnaissance or strike aircraft (and for being from NA - Lockheed, Convair, Northrop, Ryan... if you've read a bit about early US stealth efforts those names are familiar, but NA is a new one).

 

[sferrin]

I believe F-111 and TSR.2 featured RAM coatings inside the intake ducts, both mid-1960s.

The NA patent is still notable in that it applies to a fighter rather than a reconnaissance or strike aircraft (and for being from NA - Lockheed, Convair, Northrop, Ryan... if you've read a bit about early US stealth efforts those names are familiar, but NA is a new one).

NA actually looked at reducing RCS and IR signature on the XB-70. (Granted they were trying to go from monstrous to merely huge but still. . .) It's talked about in Landis' book on the XB-70 as I recall.

 

[FighterJock]

I believe F-111 and TSR.2 featured RAM coatings inside the intake ducts, both mid-1960s.

The NA patent is still notable in that it applies to a fighter rather than a reconnaissance or strike aircraft (and for being from NA - Lockheed, Convair, Northrop, Ryan... if you've read a bit about early US stealth efforts those names are familiar, but NA is a new one).

NA actually looked at reducing RCS and IR signature on the XB-70. (Granted they were trying to go from monstrous to merely huge but still. . .) It's talked about in Landis' book on the XB-70 as I recall.

Would you think that RCS reduction would have saved the XB-70 from cancellation? I am actually surprised that NA did not at least try to put RCS reduction technology into the XB-70 from the start.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I believe F-111 and TSR.2 featured RAM coatings inside the intake ducts, both mid-1960s.

The NA patent is still notable in that it applies to a fighter rather than a reconnaissance or strike aircraft (and for being from NA - Lockheed, Convair, Northrop, Ryan... if you've read a bit about early US stealth efforts those names are familiar, but NA is a new one).

NA actually looked at reducing RCS and IR signature on the XB-70. (Granted they were trying to go from monstrous to merely huge but still. . .) It's talked about in Landis' book on the XB-70 as I recall.

Would you think that RCS reduction would have saved the XB-70 from cancellation? I am actually surprised that NA did not at least try to put RCS reduction technology into the XB-70 from the start.

I think they probably thought there was enough of a challenge in making a Mach 3 bomber without adding on reduced RCS.

And yes, RCS reduction was seriously considered in Britain in the late 50s and early 60s (often called "radar camouflage" in contemporary documents) for TSR.2 and other bombers.

 

[Airplane]

Lockheed also experimented with RAM on the U-2. And don't forget the Boeing Quiet Bird. And why no mention of the Horten flying wing? Ever since radar was weaponized, rcs reduction has been in development. I am more surprised that it wasn't "perfected" until the later 70s. Yeah i know the computer revolution helped the -117 but all the pieces were there experimentally.

 

[sferrin]

Lockheed also experimented with RAM on the U-2. And don't forget the Boeing Quiet Bird. And why no mention of the Horten flying wing?

Did it have an air inlet radar blocker?

 

[Airplane]

Lockheed also experimented with RAM on the U-2. And don't forget the Boeing Quiet Bird. And why no mention of the Horten flying wing?

Did it have an air inlet radar blocker?

I don't know. My friend who was a retired general told me about it and there is stuff online if you look.

 

[Triton]

Published on Jul 22, 2017

Pilots flying the advanced Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet see no physical boundaries in its use, the Russian Air Force Commander says. Spectators at the MAKS 2017 Air Show saw the cutting-edge aircraft in action.

https://youtu.be/0GDx9RzPKlw

 

[Triton]

Published on Jul 18, 2017

Odo Puiu Info invites you to watch ….
Russian Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 ((5th++ Gen)) || MAKS-2017.

https://youtu.be/wUN-S2TfVDA

 

[Triton]

Published on Jul 21, 2017

two Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 in the International Aviation & Space Salon (MAKS 2017) --- Dos Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 en el salón internacional de la aviación y del espacio (MAKS 2017)

https://youtu.be/zAjzcZTXxVw

 

[Triton]

Published on Jul 13, 2017

МАКС 2017 Тренировочные полёты Сухой Т50

https://youtu.be/EVlTjSlo4fM

 

[Jemiba]

.. and as from now to be known as "Su-57" ?
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.de/2017/08/t-50-fighter-received-official-name-of.html?m=1

 

[hesham]

.. and as from now to be known as "Su-57" ?
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.de/2017/08/t-50-fighter-received-official-name-of.html?m=1

My dear Jemiba,

I know this Info bout Su-57 from a few months ago,but I afraid to announce that,because I
thought it was a fake designation.

 

[FighterJock]

.. and as from now to be known as "Su-57" ?
https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.de/2017/08/t-50-fighter-received-official-name-of.html?m=1

My dear Jemiba,

I know this Info bout Su-57 from a few months ago,but I afraid to announce that,because I
thought it was a fake designation.

Better than the Su-50 designation that was doing the rounds a few years ago.

 

[galgot]

If they keep with the rule , for a fighter it had to be an odd number. But why 57 ... ?

 

[FighterJock]

I could be wrong here, but I think that it would have something to do with the Su-27. :-\

 

[fightingirish]

In an episode of the Aviation Week’s Check 6 podcast was reported, that the designation "Su-57" was floating around during MAKS 2017 in Moscow.
The AW&ST journalist could not get an official confirmation.
My rule:
Sukhoi Su-_7 Fitter-A
Sukhoi Su-17 Fitter-B
Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker-B
Sukhoi Su-37 Flanker-F
Sukhoi Su-47 Firkin
Sukhoi Su-57 ________ No NATO reporting name so far.

 

[paralay]

But why 57 ... ?

F-22 + F-35 = Su-57

 

[flateric]

Meaningless multi-post theories of NATO reporting name for Su-57 will be removed. Thank you for understanding.

 

[galgot]

"Flaterfox" ? ;D
Sorry couldn't help... I'm slow at understanding anything Please remove.

 

[flanker]

Uh oh uh oh.

Apparently T-50-11 had its first flight today. -10 is skipped for now as it is still being worked on. -11 is the last in prototype. Damn, much earlier than i expected for it to happen.

 

[FighterJock]

Strange situation for Sukhoi to fly T-50-11 ahead of -10, wonder why they did not wait until -10 was ready.

 

[Deino]

Uh oh uh oh.

Apparently T-50-11 had its first flight today. -10 is skipped for now as it is still being worked on. -11 is the last in prototype. Damn, much earlier than i expected for it to happen.

I just noted these rumours too and if true, impressive !

Any info on its powerplant since some say it would already use the Izd.30 ??

 

[flanker]

Strange situation for Sukhoi to fly T-50-11 ahead of -10, wonder why they did not wait until -10 was ready.

Why? Clearly something has been holding up -10 which hasnt been holding up -11 and hence it went ahead. -11 was at one point to be the most complete in terms of frame, so it is possible it hasn't as full electronic package as -10 for example. So there could be easily some equipment -10 will have which -11 wont have that has been holding it up. But that is speculation on my side.

Izd.30 will be first fitted to "an already existing frame" but whether that is one of the T-50 frames or T-10M b/710, i dont know. First 10 serials will be with Izd.117, last 2 of the first 12 serial batch will be with Izd.30. There is 0 reason to believe -11 is powered by Izd.30 and about as much certainty when it comes to -10 too.

 

[Deino]

Strange situation for Sukhoi to fly T-50-11 ahead of -10, wonder why they did not wait until -10 was ready.

Why? Clearly something has been holding up -10 which hasnt been holding up -11 and hence it went ahead. -11 was at one point to be the most complete in terms of frame, so it is possible it hasn't as full electronic package as -10 for example. So there could be easily some equipment -10 will have which -11 wont have that has been holding it up. But that is speculation on my side.

Izd.30 will be first fitted to "an already existing frame" but whether that is one of the T-50 frames or T-10M b/710, i dont know. First 10 serials will be with Izd.117, last 2 of the first 12 serial batch will be with Izd.30. There is 0 reason to believe -11 is powered by Izd.30 and about as much certainty when it comes to -10 too.

Thanks !

 

[flanker]

Su-57 is official now.

 

[Dragon029]

Articles backing that up ^

https://www.rt.com/news/399291-fifth-generagion-fighter-named/

https://sputniknews.com/military/201708111056378101-russia-fighter-naming-su57/

http://tass.com/defense/960000

 

[FighterJock]

Any idea as to who comes up with the official designations in Russia? Sukhoi themselves or the Russian MOD? This question has been bothering me for some time. :-\

 

[sienar]

Lockheed also experimented with RAM on the U-2. And don't forget the Boeing Quiet Bird. And why no mention of the Horten flying wing?

Did it have an air inlet radar blocker?

A B-47 was tested with an inlet blocker in the late 50s, I believe it also had ram treatment on the leading edges and nose.

 

[Samoderzhets]

Apparently T-50-11 had its first flight today. -10 is skipped for now as it is still being worked on. -11 is the last in prototype.

There will be 12 prototypes after all according to UAC president Yuri Slyusar: "Сделано девять летных экземпляров, изготовим еще три — и выполним контракт на ОКР. В 2019 году у нас стоит поставка первого образца в войска."
Rough translation: Made 9 flying copies, will produce 3 more - and fulfill the R&D contract. In 2019 we are to supply the first sample for troops.

Also worth noting that he apparently counts 50-5 and 50-5R as separate even though the official story was supposed to be that 50-5R is rebuilt 50-5. In reality 50-5R just uses some parts of 50-5 and is in essence T-50-6-1. I know seDAN claimed that the 12th prototype was cancelled or something to that effect, but a very recent interview from the head of UAC is more authoritative source.

Purely as a personal speculation I suspect that 50-12 will come late 2018 or early 2019 equipped with 2 izd.30s after they have sufficiently tested the engine in a flying laboratory.

Yuri's interview: http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2733539.html

 

[flanker]

Previous statements on remaining prototypes lined up with -11 being the last one. Personally, i think he just misspoke this time.

 

[flateric]

T50-10 model @ArmyExpo 2017

 

[flateric]

last part

 

[icyplanetnhc (Steve)]

It appears this model still has the old wingtip clipping found on the first two prototypes.

 

[flateric]

Everything is up to date with wingtips here.

 

[Airplane]

Damn it to hell anyways. The Russians have the sexiest paint jobs ever! Although Keith Ferris and his splinter work was great in the 70s....