Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA first flight - pictures, videos and analysis [2010]

[Deino]

I like Matej's better...
....

Me too ... I think Matej's drawing is just one "generation" ahead ! ;D

Deino

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

PAK FA article in Koku Fan has a nice drawing.

Article gives PAK FA dimensions as

Length:19.4m
Wing span:14.0m

 

[donnage99]

Yes, the pictures give us some information on the RCS of the prototype and only the prototype. As I mentioned before, it would be nice to see the ground tests prototype which propably has a bit different aft fuselage shaping due to different engines.

Yes, it does give some vague assumption of RCS, but to give a level of information to compare to other aircraft's RCS is rediculously arrogant, as APA demonstrated. The skin, the alignments of all the doors and panels, what type of RAS and RAM (how tight tolerance they are, how thick they are), and the diffferent stealth techniques used with each shapin of a specific design (remember that materials and shapin' are not too seperate catergories, but are integral uniquely with each specific design through various techniques. This is why, though there are some improvements, we can't put f-22 skin on b-2 and make it stealthier and maintainable without hanger) can significantly alter its stealth characteristics though it's impossible to see them from a few pictures.

I remember from A-12 Avenger II book, McDonnell Douglas gave the design to Lockheed to treat the edges, and with the same design, same shape, Lockheed raised the level of stealth figuratively from (I'm not sure) 20% to 90% or so. So lookin' at some pictures and makin' bold statements comparing its RCS with other stealth aircraft is... : We don't even know what's goin' on in the T-50's inlets (how curved they are, are there any radar blockers employed, if so, how good they are). And this can significantly reduce or increase RCS by factor of anywhere between 10 to 1000.

 

[flateric]

Dave Fulghum of Aviation Week on Russian TV - commenting on T-50)))

 

[donnage99]

What did he say?

 

[Matej]

Hm? Seems to be the fan art, because some details are missing and some lines are slightly off but a good one.

 

[flateric]

What did he say?

You can hardly say something new in 25 seconds that he was talking)))

 

[lancer21]

MLG leg got collateral damage from stamp tool while retoucher was dealing with strain gauge on left vertical tail - guys have made short investigation here already

I know its old news, but can it by somewhat fixed? the high res pic look marvelous , but that little landing gear leg PS mishap spoils everything, its a pitty ...funny thing is i got my copy of Air International today , and they left it like that, even on their cover!( offcourse would be far more exciting to have the original pic ... )

Speaking of pics , anything new about the high res camouflage pic that couldnt be shown because of copyright (?),is it suposed to be shown first in some magazine and that magazine owns the copyright or ... ???

Thanks,
Mack8

 

[Matej]

I knew that I saw the idea of the movable LERX before and now I realized...

 

[saintkatanalegacy]

found this nice drawing by Yurist

 

[Avimimus]

I knew that I saw the idea of the movable LERX before and now I realized...

Project Integral.

I remember figuring out from the initial photos that the Shafagh was designed for sustained high AoA flight. I wrote out my guesswork at ACIG in a thread "Russia's next wing". I guess I've been sort-of vindicated. Thanks for pointing it out again.

Always feels nice. ;D

 

[saintkatanalegacy]

huge wheel suggests a vertical(slightly horizontal) duct offset and supersonic duct compression albeit just the right amount

if the (rather short) duct is hugely horizontally offset in combination with the already vertically offset duct, it will induce pressure swirl which isn't favorable for pressure recovery at high beta(windward-leeward performance, generally because wing shielded intakes have good high alpha performance at the cost of high beta sensitivity) specially for taking off

the fixed geometry intake also takes advantage of the huge LERX and partial fuselage shielding for high alpha performance similar to that of rafale. also note that the drooping LERX is intentional in combination with a splitter plate scheme which can be compared to airframes with fuselage shielded intakes upon inspecting their nose. but this should not be mistaken that the movable LERX has a variable shock function.

those are my thoughts

 

[Matej]

Why do everybody think that the main landing gear is turning upwards? If so, than there is a lot of space in the main landing gear bays that hasn't got any purpose and is only a wasting of space, isn't it?

 

[lantinian]

Why do everybody think that the main landing gear is turning upwards?

I was just re-watching the longer of the two videos about the T-50 first flight. You can see the landing gear being retracted starting at about 0:45 into the clip. The sun kind of blocked the final moments of the sequence but it was clearly visible that the first thing the main landing gear did is move up.

 

[saintkatanalegacy]

tbh, when I saw the drawing it got me scratching my head ???

but I guess they can just patch those up with fuel tanks

It's one heck of a mysterious bird that even "Practical Aircraft Intakes" makes me a lot more confused

 

[lancer21]

Been reading thru Air International, and the engine part is particularily interesting...if i get it right , the prototype T-50-1 has two Izd.117( 147KN) engines , themselves an improved Izd.117S from the Su-35(142KN)...

As far as i can make from the magazine and the net the contract to the engine builder wasn't awarded yet , the contenders being Saturn with the so called Izd.127( 157KN?) and Salyut for their 152KN engine ( AL-31F- M3?)...this contract is suposed to be awarded this year...

First did i got this engine info right ?Second , what is the developing stage of these two competing engines, are they on the bench or flight tested yet ?


Thank you.

Lancer21

 

[lantinian]

157KN! That's sounds actually unbelivably unbiased. 11 years ago any Russian 5gen pundit would have sworn that the new 5 gen fighter would boast a 180KN Al-41F enjine and would outperform the Raptor in trust to weight ratio.

If these number from Air International turn out to be true, it would mean the F-22 would enjoy a noticeble performance advantage over T-50, given it has at worst the same trust as its heavier russan counterpart.

 

[Scorpion82]

The FlugRevue magazine also talks about 147 kN for the current AL-41F1 and 157 kN for the future engine. Izd. 127 is it confirmed somewhere else?

 

[Mercurius Cantabrigiensis]

The FlugRevue magazine also talks about 147 kN for the current AL-41F1 and 157 kN for the future engine. Izd. 127 is it confirmed somewhere else?

According to Jane’s, the early flight tests are probably being made with 144 kN (32,400 lb) thrust Type 117 (AL-41F1A) engines, while production aircraft are to receive a new 157 kN (35,275 lb st) engine.

 

[saintkatanalegacy]

well tbh, we wouldn't know the actual performance until we see the final engine. could be a bluff though

 

[flateric]

(c) Sergey Lysenko
http://russianplanes.net/ID17176

right engine, obviously, looks rather different

 

[saintkatanalegacy]

aye, larger fan blade ;D

 

[flateric]

sim cockpit, HUD indication, fragment of 'iron bird'

 

[flanker]

Excuse me, but what is that middle pic showing? ???

PS: The thread where nemetc was active have been gone for some time... Is it just me, or i cant find the continuing thread? Or there is none?

 

[lancer21]

Excuse me, but what is that middle pic showing? ???

Maby landing gear? ???

Anyway , i cant see the last pic of the cockpit , it says its disabled temporarely!!!

Still, nice to see new stuff , thanks.

 

[flateric]

google "iron bird"

 

[lancer21]

NVM , i found the vid, thanks!

 

[flanker]

google "iron bird"

I know what it is.

 

[flateric]

PS: The thread where nemetc was active have been gone for some time...

it's gone forever for some serious reasons you can easily imagine...

 

[flateric]

T-50-0

 

[lancer21]

Wow , now thats a good start of the week! Thanks Flateric!

 

[flanker]

T-50-0!!! YEAH! Thanks flateric.

 

[saintkatanalegacy]

wow, the HUD information display is significantly different from a flanker although it's still yellow

 

[flateric]

according to Pogosyan, during first three flights T-50 has already reached AoA of 270

 

[orko_8]

I don't think the throttle here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9186.0;attach=97987;image is the actual one used in the cocpit. This one very much seems like Thrustmaster Cougar or equivalent system for computer simulation. The throttle lever seen in th cockpit in the footage previous page of the thread seems different than this.

 

[flateric]

This one very much seems like Thrustmaster Cougar

bingo! this is it

 

[flateric]

Russia says its stealth jet ready for use in 2015
Mon Mar 1, 2010 11:15pm IST
By Gleb Bryanski

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's new, fifth-generation stealth jet fighter -- which Moscow hopes will be able to compete with its U.S. Raptor rival -- will be ready for use in 2015, the plane's designer said on Monday.

Russia test-flew its long-awaited stealth fighter at the end of January, presenting it as Moscow's first all-new warplane since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union and a challenge to the technological supremacy of Cold War foe the United States.

Asked to compare his brainchild to the U.S. F-22 Raptor, built more than a decade ago, the Russian jet's chief designer Alexander Davydenko told reporters: "The basic features are the same but we tried to do it better."

He said Sukhoi, which produced the T-50 prototype of the jet, "had modelled duels with the F-22".

"I think we will have a competitive price. As for the efficiency-and-cost ratio, we will be much better," he added.

The first MiG-29 and Su-27 prototypes of the previous fourth generation took to the air in 1977. Analysts say several nations, including Libya and Vietnam, had expressed interest in the fifth-generation fighter, but serious financial, technical and even political hurdles remain before Russia starts producing it.

The aircraft's maiden flight showed "Russia is still a solid second in terms of defence technology," analysts from the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) said in their latest survey published last week.

"The year 2015 is set as the deadline for the plane's deliveries to the armed forces. We are working on it," chief designer Davydenko said. "The model that was flown was a 100-percent fifth-generation fighter," he said.

"Its navigation system, communications, piloting information system -- are all original, but everything has been working in the aerodynamic tests regime so far," he added. "This plane is not yet designed for carrying weapons," he said.

HICCUPS REMAIN

Analysts say the existing T-50 prototype's engines do not have all the features of proper fifth-generation ones.

"While they provide the necessary amount of thrust (even for supersonic cruising), they are not up to the fifth-generation spec in terms of the thrust-to-weight ratio and fuel economy," CAST experts wrote.

"Many observers are sceptical about Russia's chances of creating a proper fifth-generation engine that could compete with America's Pratt & Whitney F119," CAST added. "Problems also remain with the new radar and other onboard equipment, but recent progress suggests that the risks here are moderate."

The T-50 will be produced in a 50/50 joint venture with India and could be armed with jointly made BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, Davydenko said.

Analysts say the Russian stealth fighter could easily win a third of the world market if its mass output became a reality.

Asked about giant neighbour China's possible participation in the project, Davydenko said that "there are no talks with the Chinese about this fighter jet."

(Additional reporting by Dmitry Solovyov; editimg by Myra MacDonald)

© Thomson Reuters 2010 All rights reserved

 

[flateric]

taken yesterday right at Pogosyan's working table
thanks to Andrey Fomin for sharing

 

[flateric]

from PM site. note photo of painted T-50 in flight at background

 

[flanker]

Hehe, beat me to it.

And here is high res of the nose:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5054/100302203847tt50.jpg